I think we're thinking the same thing, so I'll drop it for now.

He didnt feel like town lucky thus far. Usually he's more...not serious? Considering how much of day 1 has passed. Im probably going to go back through his posts and solidify how I feel later today/tmrw.

Also didnt read past your post yet because its criminal to read such long posts on ones phone. Like jeez

 

Prophylaxis does the same thing when scum, though. I've done the same thing before when scum. And since I don't have meta that makes me think Atum would necessarily be more agreeable and wise as scum, and I do have good reasons to think he's scum outside of that...

Do you need me to help with his lynch? That's hard to imagine.

I'm basically focusing on Atum right now and watching you and HF out of the corner of my eye.

 

On the bus so a more detailed post later.

Atum seems obvious town to me because no way does someone joke about their own scumminess day 1 and be scum. Well maybe after this game people might so I don't want to make it a rule per se. But so far I have never seen scum joke around day 1. from meta, I have seen atum play scum and play it very well so he's town in my opinion.

Irene has convinced me Bill wouldn't be this stupid if he weren't town. while I remember him being a lot smarter, even as town, I'll give him the benefiT of he is not that invested in the game. Maybe he did it to have the scum try to out themselves on such a ridiculous bus? In which case...

Rubicon comes off as scummy.

Irene makes a good point about blab but I'll give it a few more days. Perhaps she shared her thoughts tooearly. Will see how the next few days pan out.

Waco is just off to me. Gut feeling is, he's third party. details on him later.

 

That's fair enough. I wasn't aware of such a writing practice.

I can't form an opinion on Atum. Because I keep thinking of him as Beetlejuice. You need to vote his name a few times before he comes out to play. It honestly feels weird seeing him out and about without being on the chopping block soon.
Bill Door I have no opinion on yet.
Titus seems unproductive thus far. Making small comments here and there. Being active but uninformative.

It just feels like you are slightly working around her buttons. From what I'm reading it feels like frustration is starting to build and a tunnel is upcoming on the road. And as we have seen from a previous game getting Mathblade tunnelling would be a great waste of time.
Not saying that Mathblade tunnelling is bad necessarily, but if more effort was put into finding other scum the game could have turned out differently.

Also my definition of going at it is one sibling picking and the other trying not to snap back. I was always the one to pick.

---------- Post automerged at 01:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:42 ----------

Honestly I haven't really had much else to say up to that point. I said hello when I realized the game had started, and I made my second post after I read the lore and before I went to bed.
Also what tone have I been giving off that reminded you of Batmafia 2?

Why was Citrus a passing note in your post anyway?

 

Uh… scum read on Citrus despite him positing like twice. At this post Atum is either insanely stupid or deliberately obtuse to get himself lynched but as of now there are no town roles that benefits from self mislynch so I’m am leaning towards the first.

The first sentence is… basically Atum confirming himself as retard!Townie because there is no way a scum would be so retarded backtracking so many damn times for literally no purpose other than to incriminate himself.

Now you’ve pissed me off Fonti. In your very next post you suggest I used YOUR reasoning for why Atum/BillDoor/Zenzao are town when I posted 15 mins later than you with ALL the relevant quotes AND the other posts, what? You think I can write a fucking 1000 words with quotes in 15 mins? Do you really think you’re god’s gift to mafia that everyone is going to hold you as the best or that I’m secretly psychic and can read your mind? Again, I will say this later I DID NOT HAVE THE FUCKING TIME TO CHECK PAGE 11/12 BEFORE I POSTED. I SPEND 4 HOURS ON THAT POST. I do not appreciate you saying I’m mimicing your fucking views.
I guess we agree on Titus and Luckylee, based on MY OWN REASONING THANK YOU. And I’ll get to fluffiness in full length later.
Speaking of mimicking your view on Zola is basically what I said. Mimicking amirite?

Ah, fontisian, how I’ve missed your utterly condescending tone like you’re god’s gift to mafia. Funny, that.

1. Alright so before I get to fluffiness you want me to address the echo thing. I was really reluctant to quote posts from other games to prove my point so… I’ll just answer this the best I can with quotes. So in witchhunt 4 it was town!fonti. She runs around the first 20 or so posts throwing her OWN questions, giving her OWN opinions. Instead of reasoning she just uprights says reads, throwing questions everywhere, and in general is protown pretty aggressively. This is one of your most recent games. In comparision, scum!fonti in mini mafia 3 (buddies with rubi and billdoor) didn’t even make it past 3 pages for me to peg her as scum. Mostly because BillDoor is kinda bad at being scum. And so #1 echoing happened when BillDoor says “The people that I'm suspicious of here are Castiel and Kaemrynn. One or two stupid votes are a joke, when it gets to four or five is when it looks like some dodgy bandwagoning. “ Billdoor then asks about Kaemrynn’s newness then went to vote Kalas out of nothing. Scum!Fonti here: “Kaemrynn's vote strikes me as the worst, regardless of jwlk's status as scum or town, especially because it came after Eido's votals, as Kalas pointed out. On the other hand, he is new.” Feels like scum!fonti plays more carefully and tends to justify herself a lot more, but while agreeing with Kalas she basically says same thing as BillDoor but she doesn’t acknowledge this. In this game she was hardest to read as scum among Billdoor and rubicon, because she got so politically correct. She did almost all the ‘expected townie’ things. Also I figured Fen wasn’t scum early on so by process of elimination. Then echo#2 happened: Billdoor goes “I think we should lynch Castiel instead of Fen because easy lynch” and Fonti goes “tl:dr Fen strikes me as scum that knows Castiel will flip town and we should lynch him.” Now, ‘that’s not fucking echo they are opposite’ but I noted here that fonti seems to be subtly arguing against Bill’s points, yet doesn’t address him at all in her post, like she just took his reasoning, decided ‘oh well this is a chance to distant myself from him!’ And this carries onto day 2 where she just starts questioning BillDoor after ignoring him for the entire first day lynching Fen, then defends him immediately after. A similar inconsistency in thought regarding Rubicon in this game I feel, when I spent one long post accusing Rubi fonti just ‘oh I think you are reading too much’ defending rubi without saying much else. ???

2. Get to the ‘fluff sucks so bad can be scum’ thing later.

3. Math doesn’t do things by halves. Once she gets it into her head she’s right she’ll burn the world down with herself in the process. BUT this means she can be very, very, right or very, very wrong. In this case your scumminess stems from partly my conviction that Rubicon is scum, and Mathblade got that part right too. Also… why would paying attention to her give you a headache? Unless you’re scum getting a headache from her accusing you, this line doesn’t make sense. You’re putting down people who may not be as good as you but far from complete incapable, dismissing Mathblade and fluffiness because they don’t fit into your opinions by doing NO reasoning beyond arguing that they are stupid? Undermining other potential townies isn’t town behavior. Also, if they are scum, arguing along such lines leads to underestimating scum, which is once again, honestly no town!fonti for me. You just went up the scum scale.

4. Now this is the part that actually made sense. Weirdly inconsistent though fonti. Also, if you think Atum is town why are you not bailing him out? I don’t get you here. If you’re town, and he’s town, even if he’s an idiot townie you should be moving past him to focus on possible scums instead….?

5. I address why I felt you’re scummy in the last post. If you really want to know the echoing part though, I know you and Rubi have this frienemies relationship but the dynamics just feel more like minimafia (where you were scum with him) dynamics than normal, where you guys poke fun at each other, focus on different things but still use the exact same reasoning to refute Mathblade’s point. All in all, your post has done nothing but convince me of your scumminess more. We’ll see.

6. So fluffiness. Apologies for the bluntness I’m going to put here. BEFORE game, I asked around about what some of my old buddies think, got a profiling of everyone. The feedback I got was that fluff was Mediocre, not Woefully Incompetent. Came to the same conclusion myself from the games I read through. These players are more experienced than you fonti. But since you need convincing. Let’s rate the idiot scale upon ten. The higher the idiot scale is, the more likely he is idiot!scum aka he has to be THAT idiotic in order to be scum. I’m rating his posts based on the assumption he’s scum.

7. 1st point fluffiness hit the idiot scale was his self-contradiction. So that put him at 6/10 on the list. Then he voted BACK for luckylee immediately after blab accused him. At this point the knee jerk reaction got him up to a 8/10 on the idiot scale, because I can see it as stupid scum, but it didn’t make much sense because 1. Any mediocre player wouldn’t jump back to luckylee in response to being accused of lucky omgussing him. 2. At this point the only person to say it was blab, and there was no need for him to go back to luckylee at all. Then in response to blab he speaks more gibberish, and at this point fluffiness has got to be more than woefully incompetent given that “So I guess him providing reasoning for votes is a scum tell? I'll be sure to remember that.” Made no sense to me whatsoever, was sarcastic to the point that he makes him just really scummy looking, and my idiot scale is off the charts at 11/10, because frankly at this point he’s either goddamn Littlefinger or he's worse at being a bad guy than John Travolta from Battlefield Earth in the way of ‘holy shit I am so bad at being scum I consistently incriminate myself, don’t give a fuck and is generally unhelpful.’ Or he’s just idiot!townie, which is more plausible because I can actually see a clueless vanilla townie just running around drawing aggression, kinda like Atum. He hit the 3 cardinal signs of scumminess on the dot and yet ANY scum with a brain bigger than a pea would at least know to avoid those areas. Then he FINALLY gave his reasoning, which was again kneejerk but he has passed the point of ‘so idiotic if he’s scum that it’s implausible’ test” He goes on to make decent points about lucky, Titus and MB that I feel he is… not exactly town, but I’m putting him at 60% town. He may still be scum but honestly you’re more likely at the moment fonti.

Brass and Tax Rubi. You did a great job leading town that game. Also batmafia 2. I really don’t have the energy to quote every single town!Rubi post so I’mma summarizing it as that you just FEEL off, on top of the points I already made, and town!Rubi is more hesistant incriminating other people and a lot less concerned with drawing aggression. In batmafia 2 you didn’t go around accusing people with no reasoning for the first few posts, you were being pressured by a lot of different people in Brass and Tax and drew aggression on yourself first post, refused to give reasonings for Zeit accusation even AFTER being addressed about it, making your omission of reasoning deliberate. Basically, town!Rubi feels more all in (Doesn’t go around making accusations and is generally more willing to wait for reads) or all out (aggressive power role drawing people to examine him). Here you… doing both, contradicting yourself, generally being pretty damn inconsistent. I don’t like it. At all.

I SAID it is up until page TEN Are you ILLITERATE or just a buffoon being literally obtuse? At any rate, I said I’m holding off judgement about you, because your recent post seems decent enough. Do yourself some favours and stop slipping onto my scum radar.

Good point made here. I do feel that the meta in batmafia put him as well-meaning townie. He made mistakes, did anti-town things by accident but was generally not totally clueless. IN essence, he tried. May not have succeeded but it’s all learning. Heck, I still suck at mafia I think. This radical shift in ‘not giving a damn’ makes me feel that he’s *just* intelligent enough to NOT do it because holy shit obvious if his playing style is opposite and scummy. Getting a vanilla town read off him, maybe he hates his boring role? So if that’s the case he seeming so scummy seems to be ensuring scum keeps him alive as lynch-target for day2/3. OR the mods’ bastard element has a role similar to benevolent old dame where he needs to die in order to give life/kill someone. As I said, I am putting fluffiness roughly around Riley/luckylee level where they are scummy seeming if I assume they are really as stupid as they seem, but otherwise I am more concerned with blab. And you. But you know that.

Okay, first point about blab. You made a point but that was one post. Question was hard for him to answer In blab’s mind: (and blab is profiled as a preeeetty good player): Uh… what? In general one word questions are hard to answer. There’s no need to hide him being unable to respond to a one word answer. Honestly. I feel that it’s a ‘hey I can’t answer this but rubi still seems scummy to me so let me pursue this route’
As a said, I have him pegged as third party for now, because his motivations seem to be… more anti-scum than pro-town does that make sense? I unfortunately can’t reference any 3rd!Party blab so…
Atum’s reasons for attacking zenzao is consistent with atum’s past townie play where he’s being not the brightest, and I agree with you that I read it as scummy initially. The accumulation of his interactions with billdoor however made me change my mind. He’s… really just not that bright. But that doesn’t mean he’s scum.

Thanks fonti for pointing that out. Rubi, could you answer this?

The entire exchange here between you and fonti going ‘fonti: fluff is scum, why are you not with me’ ‘Rubi: Atum is scum, why are you not with me’ feels like you guys are STILL trying to smokescreen and keep the focus on these two. I say I really think blab is worth focusing on. As such, I’m going to wait for blab to respond to my post.

@Kento “Why was Citrus a passing note in your post anyway?” Because I didn’t get any read from him and I haven’t gone through page 11/12 yet. Even after he posted I am not getting reads so I might as well not analyse him yet. I had bigger fish to deal with.

 

On the Waco Kid, there's not that much actually. What I found irritating was that he was consistently asking a bunch of different people what they thought about other people that they hadn't commented on. This was without giving any actual reads himself. This seems to me like scum trying to be helpful town without digging themselves in too deep.

 

And the tl:dr buzz is over. I'm running on about 3 hours of sleep, so there's going to be some incoherence/unnecessary hostility.

Jesus fuck.

I said you did not mimic my reads. Why the fuck are you assuming hostility in my posts, when, until this point, there was none there?

More to the point, why the fuck aren't you reading my posts clearly if you're trying to figure out my alignment?

What. fucking. condescension.

Do you have any idea how much I admire you as a player? Do you have idea how many hours I've poured over your games? I'd really bloody appreciate it if a person I consider my inspiration would not shit on my intentions.

Re my meta: Are you fucking serious? You're taking my what? Second scum game, first real one, as an example of my behavior? Oh, wow, fonti wasn't amazing scum on her first attempt. What a shock. Never mind that I've played ~50 games since then, and have worked fucking hard to improve. No, that one game is your basis for everything.

And yeah, I'm not going to dismantle your case against Blab and Rubicon. I don't really buy it, but they're reactions to it are what's going to help me understand their alignment. Why the fuck would I short circuit that, except to point out the weakest points in your arguments?

Re Math: Her logic doesn't make sense to me, and never has. I don't particularly feel the need to justify that. I've had past town games where I've said the same.

And way to completely fucking strawman my argument. Where did I call Math stupid? Where did I call fluff that? Math thinks differently from me. It's makes her hard to read and harder to follow. Fluff's relatively new to mafia, and like any newbie, makes mistakes. People panic and fuck up. I've seen enough of it from truly intelligent people tonight alone to know it's pretty damn universal.

So, no, my argument is not that fluff is "stupid," and if you'd bothered to pay attention without seeing me through whatever twisted lens you're using, you'd see that. He's a newbie scum who panicked and tried to diffuse pressure.

Re Atum: He's not a fucking idiot townie. He's a guy who's trying to get better, and part of that is dealing with pressure. I'm not his mom, he's in no danger of being lynched, and the controversy gives me interesting material to read.

Re fluff: Actually, fuck this section. You're trying to argue that fluff was too bad to be scum? A guy's who doesn't have a completed scum game? Who has a clear scum line of thought behind his actions and no town one? Who responded to pressure with a sarcastic comment that betrayed bitterness at being called out (“So I guess him providing reasoning for votes is a scum tell? I'll be sure to remember that.”)? Oh is it because he's drawing aggression? He's desperately trying to avoid aggression!

And the comparison to Atum? What the hell? Their play has been nothing alike. I keep trying to figure out why you would say that, and the only thing I can come up with is linking fluff to Atum's towniness. Keep trying to defend him. I dare you.

---------- Post automerged at 03:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 AM ----------

That was over the top. I apologize.

I think most of the points stand (namely that you are not reading my posts with any care, and that you are interpreting hostile intent in my actions where there is none (maybe in an attempt to draw it out, which means I walked right into it. Fuck.), and that your arguments in fluff's favor are just. what.).

 

Long post ahead as I catch up with all the prior posts and give responses as needed. Then will do a too long didn't read version later on.

Posts and their responses order.

Spoiler

Meh I don't like this from Rubicon. Atum's actually posting instead of lurking around, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for that. I also think his posts are town but it feels like Rubicon's trying to be town rather than being town.

If Rubicon is scum then asking for reads and/or votes sometimes fall into a majority town, add a scum bandwagon to which a possible

Rubicon/Fonti/Poly team is possible
or
Rubicon/Fonti/Titus is a second but I think Titus is town but not 100% sold on it. Every time I get close to a town read on her, she does something scummy *sigh*

With how his fluff/Lucky Lee suspicion is happening I think they're probably town or 3P not main scum.

I also haven't known Rubicon to agree or disagree to anything.

Rubicon should know better than this. Caring about pressure is true regardless of alignment as the goal is to lynch scum/3P. If you're town a vote on you is WRONG and should be countered as much as possible why trying to steer town in the right direction. I get a good vibe from Atum.

Based on this post, I'd have Citrus as town or 3P not main scum. More than likely town. I would recommend that you don't try to abuse/break the game. I think more than likely there are things that we don't know since this is a bastard game. I applaud you trying to figure everything out, but really I think it needs to be more on alignment than roles. Almost every role PM has a reason to be Riddleresque and fish but I think patience and reading people is probably more important than mechanics right now.

Zenzao's 226
(too long to quote) while defensive, gives me a good feeling about Zenzao and is explanative and something I can understand. Maybe Zenzao learned from Titus when they were scum together but having things explained like this is something I like. Town lean here for this post. Makes me more certain of my Rubicon scum read.

Fontisian's 227
This post feels like buttering up for slaughter a bit. Like the first four people above are not group scum then trying to push someone who isn't in the Rubicon/Fonti/{Poly+Titus} mix. Gun to my head I'd say Poly.

I don't like how you treated my play versus Irene's. You say that Irene's posts should be answered, but yet later on you say mine should be ignored because I'm a bad player (again paraphrasing sue me). I don't type things out to hear myself talk. I type things out because I genuinely believe they are helpful. I am coming from a different mindset than most people and playing games like this helps me to interact more. Each game I learn. Admittedly, I'll even grant you a handicap, but I'm getting better at catching scum just not explaining. Hell caught Titus/Malakittens in BatMafia 2 in the beginning and listening to others and some mechanics bugs caught me and made me waver. I also am good at catching scum that people don't see like Sloth in the first game I wasn't a d1 lynch. I know I have work to do as a player, but for you to say that my posts should be outright ignored because they are mine is to me not good sportsmanship. I did the same thing when I thought I had caught scum on another site, and they told me politely that you can't just say "So and so is scum ignore their posts." Therefore, respectfully, I ask you not to do the same to me.

Similarly, you have every right to think I'm the worst player in mafia since poison apples. However, I'd expect you to still interact with me and treat me like a player in the game. This very blatant doubtcast makes me think I'm actually right about you and Rubicon and you just want people to ignore it.

Her mechanics portion reads almost like a scum perspective. This reads like who she is afraid of rather than what she thinks of the roles.

Irene's very long post 228
FoS's blab, Fonti, LuckyLee, Kento, Rubicon, Titus, KK
Town reads Zenzao, Atum, Bill Door, Me, Waco (ish)
No read given that I could find Riley, Citrus, Polysemous
Missing from reads Snowvon

It's a bit concerning how well your reads line up with mine yet no talk of Snowvon. It's kind of weird. Your posts definitely make me think town or 3P not group scum but either you understand me or are trying to buddy me and I am not sure which yet because I haven't played with you enough. Regardless, based on how you're posting and how much you ask for from people and the amount of effort I'd put you as a town read for now, but there's definitely something here that I need to look into.

Kento's 229
Outright lies when says we are going at it. I've been holding back from going at it, trying to give her a fair shake. FoS here as to why he'd do that.

Fonti's 230

Again I explain earlier that saying you're outright ignoring me is not cool. Say what you don't understand or admit you're part of the problem because I will keep trying new things until I find something that works in "human ese". If you are so good at mafia, then take ownership for the community you help create. Lead people into being better players regardless of your alignment.

LuckyLee's 232
Defensive but poking at same time. Slight town lean.

Fonti's 233
Potential cross talk with Rubicon

Titus's 234
Probably town for correcting KK and how she is correcting him. However some of those posts are weird. It may be her going towards a new meta like she said. I'm keeping an eye on her, but I think Rubicon/Fonti need to be poked more.

Rubicon/Fonti - 235-240
These posts feel almost jovial. Like they are excited to pressure each other. That and the why aren't you helping me makes it seem like they can't agree on a mislynch. I don't think either of them is scared/concerned about what the other thinks despite being some of the most experienced players in the game.

Rubicon's 242
If you have other reasons why not share them? This almost sounds like you're waiting to see if an Atum lynch can get steam versus being something you believe in and seeing who would follow.

Also why are you watching Fonti? So far all it seems as if you two are joking like longlost friends. This suspicion feels forced especially without reasons.

Poly's 243
Definitely could see a Rubicon/Fonti/Poly pairing here. Definitely don't want group think and total interaction and Poly looks to be the "counter" to Rubicon/Fonti. Furthermore, he doesn't try to push Rubicon who he thinks as scummy to get a better read on them or do anything really to find scum but then gives a "look over here they might be 3P".

KK's 244
I feel a little better with that explanation of the whole me and Titus fighting when we clearly weren't. However I still think something is off. Putting you in the keep an eye on category.

Irene's 245
Unfortunately, it is kind of standard run of the mill to think I'm crazy. It's something I've been trying to improve but alas my first game I pretty much did go crazy while fingering Titus as not town. (Brass and Tax mafia where she was SK double voter). I generally play F2F with different rules than most people play F2F (e.g. with nominations and timed votes) and certain other ground rules to where playing like this is harder to do.

That being said while I am appreciative that you want to improve the respect levels in the game, doing so without me being able to get a chance in edgewise and respond to the posts, makes it harder for me to get a chance to demonstrate I'm not crazy. I understand Fonti's being rude and saying I suck (again paraphrase) but I need the chance to grow and defend myself from this. Having that be most of your post detracts from me getting to see what reads you have so I can interact with you more.

Poly's 246
I don't like this. He's continually ignoring people and just posting about Fonti even after Fonti said not to ignore people/things. It's odd Fonti doesn't call out that Poly thinks Rubicon is scummy but then only pressures Wako Kid. Wako Kid could be 3P but Poly's probably scum.

Fonti's 247
1) Yes, you've said my play is horrible but usually you don't outright ignore what I post. You don't declare that no one should be reading my posts or listening to my arguments.

Imagine if I said "Oh it's Fonti and I don't understand her so her posts should all get an F before she even posts". That would suck. You did not use the word stupid but pretty much said you've given up on reading anything I say because it gives you a headache. That is hurtful.

I don't think this post is townie anger I think this is anger at not being understood/followed.

I think Rubicon/Fonti/Poly potential scum team
Potential Wako Kid 3P, possibly Vanilla survivor

Null on Snowvon seriously where are you?
Most everyone else is a town or 3P. Irene is either Allocen or town. I don't see her as 3P survivor at this point.

Gun to my head I'd still want Rubicon lynched, but Fonti's being kind of disrespectful and I think she's part of the three headed beast so it's hard to pick which one. However, if I'm wrong on Fonti, Rubi's probably still scum but if I'm wrong on Rubicon Fonti may just be town. So I'd rather lynch Rubicon first out of those three.

But I want to symbolically vote Fonti for being rude.

Vote Fonti

Back to Rubicon now

Vote Rubicon

---------- Post automerged at 01:18 ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 ----------

Oh and very limited posting Saturday as company is over and Sunday hanging out with a friend. Should be back to full posting Monday. I may briefly phone post but it won't be as detailed as that last one.

 

First off: I would like to apologise sincerely for blowing up a little, didn't mean to come off half as scathing as I did. I was cranky, running on 5 hours of sleep, rushing off to a meeting with some fools and in general "The whole thing was long enough that I suspect you came up with the Atum/Bill Door/ Zenzao town reads on your own instead mimicking my reads, which is lovely." came off as poking fun at me instead of sarcasm. Sarcasm is hard to read over text, y'all. So my apologies.

As for being your inspiration.... If it makes you feel better, my profiling on you is "Danger alert red priority. Really good at giving town reads by actively contributing, generally seeming highly intelligent. Serpent in the dark waiting to lash out. " before game started. I'm not sure to be pressured or flattered at your compliment but I would like you to be town with me so much that even now despite my suspicion of you is 70% I will vote literally ALL of my scum suspects (there are 6-7) before I ever vote for you, because I am really fond of you for what you can do for town IF you are town. I guess I just feel rather betrayed that I keep getting scum reads from you weirdly. You and rubicon both. My sense of feeling betrayed is strong in this game.

As for quoting your 1st scum game as meta... I can't go through every thread you've been scum and quote them all. Also, I did go back on purpose to your first scum thread because 1. Scum play usually has a pattern from the start that no improvement can cover. 2. You making more mistakes in that game as scum that parallels some stuff you're doing in this thread is more convincing to me, since then you were not as good at playing scum so making similar scummy mistakes here after so many games is more suspicious to me.

Also, scum won that game, girl. Chill. You did well, you have come very far, I did not mean to imply you have not improved at all. But old habits die hard. And since you have been spending hours on my threads in lesstiny and batmafia and warlock etc. you should know that my reasoning is often strange and even unconvincing to people, and the only way I'm laying off people if I can convince myself. At this stage I am not overly concerned with damning you as scum fonti. That is not my purpose, I am simply very puzzled by the existing signs, and my priority was clearing you, rubi and billdoor as town, so if I achieve that it would be great because honestly I can't think of people more dangerous as scum in the entire game. Even KaiDASH won't be as good at appearing town if he's scum.


I believe your point about blab and rubicon. Though regarding mathblade, I would like to ask for your opinion on whether I made sense in batmafia 1 and lesstinyhunt either cause if not... well. MY reasoning is that I trust Mathblade to be town, I may not trust her reads if they aren't similar to my own, but currently they are. I will, however, not vote with her blindly if her logic can't convince me. I extend the same courtesy to everyone in the game even Riley, if I like his reasoning I will vote with him.

As for fluffiness, I am inclined to agree with you but I think the problem boils down to: You tend to underestimate scum, I tend to overestimate them. The truth is usually somewhere in between. I really think fluffiness is not THAT scummy because his display of stupidity was over quite a few posts long stretches of time. My focus now, however, is Blab and Rubicon. Fluffiness is on the luckylee/riley scum level now. And I didn't try to imply Atum and fluffiness are similar. They both displayed signs of being too unrepentent to be scum is where the similarities ended. Atum is definitely more towny based on how aggressive and not giving a damn he is playing but fluffiness isn't nearly as scummy as you are making him out to be. Yes, his actions definitely are scummy for his first few posts, but it didn't tick me off in the 'how do you explain that if you're town way' but in the 'holy shit he's stupid or scum.' In comparision rubicon gives me the 'how do you explain that if your town'. Maybe my reasoning doesn't flow with you. I don't think either of us are going to convince each other.

In conclusion: I think this argument between you and me are getting us nowhere, you are not my lynch priority for Day One and I call truce for now. I don't want us getting hostile at each other and taking attention off the people I think are far more scummy AND dangerous for now: Blab and Rubicon. I will keep hounding at them and until I see more nothing is going to make me switch targets.

 

Err what? I didn't even post about Fonti?

My reasons for thinking Rubi is scummy were the same reasons for thinking Bill Door was scummy. Namely, their tunnel vision on obv!town!Atum. I am starting to re-evaluate that however in light of Irene's massive post because yeah, scum cannot be that stupid and it's probably vocal townies going after each other.

The reasons stay for now because I don't have much else until I can do a bigger deep dive, expect a longer post over the weekend where I evaluate everyone.

 

Merged thoughts. It is 1 am should be posts only about Waco Kid

 

Math: This is the problem. You say things that are blatantly untrue, treat as fact, and then I have to say "actually, that never happened," every single time. It's tiresome. I read your posts (with the exception of a few at the end of the fantasystrike game) to figure out your alignment, but I don't want to put the extra effort into understanding your logic or mindset. You know this already.

On that note, why exactly do you think the scumteam doesn't have daychat?

Irene: Thanks. And sorry about the blow up. And blah.

I don't really want to accept your truce thing? Partly because I might be dead toMorrow, but mostly because I want to understand. Getting rid of the hostility I can absolutely go for, though.

To the point, I don't agree with your reads of Blab and Rubicon because you appear to be pressuring them for things that are innate parts of their character (namely the early game joking around). Can you address that?

I also don't agree with the desire to back off of Fluff, because the way people react to the wagon is just as informative (see: blab and lucky jumping on board the moment I get going, Rubicon trying to hide behind you, and you comparing Fluff to another person in the game for the second post in a row).

For the Mathblade/you comparisons, you have a history of being very right. Math does not. End of story.

Can you explain the reasoning behind not wanting to lynch me as a potential strong town player while going after two other strong players?

Can you also explain how your assessment of my reads of Fluff and Math was so far off the mark?

Polysemous: Can you explain why you thought Atum was obv. town?

 

Irene:
Your post is so long, you broke the quote tool.

Anyway first of all, don't question my questions. My questions are the greatest thing since I started questioning people. They are great, incisive and always get results. Rubicons to the rule, prove the rule.

But, sure, let's say you were me, who would you have poked as of #54 and why?

As for your three strikes, I...don't believe you can actually believe all that?

A)

You believe my vote for you to be scummy, why?
You believe me to be usually better than "this" (what, RVS voting you?), how?
Why is it weird to vote for you instead of anyone else?
You believe that me not immediately moving my vote off of you is scummy, why?
You believe I don't provide meaningful concrete contributions, why?

You realize that me hating your helpfulness (because you summarized the flavor after Bill complained about its length) is a joke, right? It's funny because of the juxtaposition of hate and helpfulness (an admirable quality). (I know, but I'm German, bear with me)
The kernel of truth being, that I actually do think being superficially helpful is scummy.

B)

Ok, you say it's weak and stuff, but I have the exact opposite belief in that I think scum often tries to hard to imply they are town.
Like
"I thought it was just weird and would expect another townie to use the invitation to poke Snow"
Subtle, unnecessary implication that you are town. Suspicious.
Anyway, if you had actually said my statement with "the other townies" I would have jumped on it. (and using "people" doesn't make sense at all).

So, does that actually match up with your experience, i.e. that scum actually distance themselves from town by choice of words?


C:

Ehm, this was the very next time I posted after I poked fluffy.
And, really, I thought it obvious that I was testing fluffy there, so much that I wouldn't have posted something like that if I wasn't relatively sure that fluffiness was relatively new.
Really, the only reason you are mentioned is that fluffi could reasonably expect me to actually move my vote back if he placated me.
What do you think my motivations were when I posted it?

Also "consistent hounding"...., really?
I spent two lines of my RVS vote on you, and then asked his fluffiness to vote for you with me. (hint: it was a trap)
Why did you interpret that as "consistent hounding"?

 

Eyo. Atum. Babes... Answer the [REDACTED]ing question.

 

Atum:
Was the "I do what I want" a natural response or have you purposefully decided to be more stubborn/simple-minded/purposeful/whatever this game?
Citrus:
Can you describe scum!Zenzao's play compared to CYS? Specifically regarding his tendency to make one gaffe after another in CYS.
Luckylee: Why did you feel the need to state that you needed to reread the thread and then again that you actually did reread it? I'm getting WH4 flashbacks.
Irene: Can you explain to me how you got that I am anti-scum? Because I can't add up your reads with that.(fluffi, you, mostly) I haven't played 3rd party unless you count me scumming alone in Brass & Tax.

How would Atum backing down be more beneficial to him. Like, can you describe it?

 

Riley started readwalling too early. Polysemous seems like something. Zenzao's way too self aware,, #66 was weird. Irene used too many words so I hate her.

Electric Sheep presumably.

More than 200 posts in and you seriously don't have a single read or alignment opinion on anyone in the game?

Poly has wayyyy too high an opinion of scum's ability to either be town or have ever played a game of mafia.

 

I don't understand.

 

Like rule one of mafia is that scum can, and usually do, indeed be that stupid.

 

Luckylee: Why did you feel the need to state that you needed to reread the thread and then again that you actually did reread it? I'm getting WH4 flashbacks.

I don't even remember Wh4.

I reread the thread before I posted my reads... because that's what I usually do when I post my reads? I'm not really understanding the question, blab. I have to read peoples post's to try and town/scum read them.

 

ok, I get it I read it like (scum's ability to be town or..), I get it now.


I have a decent townread Polysemous, though?
Like, disregarding the hyperbolic wording his analysis is basically what I expect from a 2nd-game townie.
Both on why Atum is probably town and why those attacking him are scum/then again probably not scum and the thoughts on Waco.

I don't know, I'm trying to figure out what pings me wrong about you. Also I meant WH3 not 4, where I replaced in, and was like "yes, Lucky, you reread the thread, I get it". But otherwise townread you just fine.

Props to you for rereading the thread, it's the "look guys, I just reread the thread." sentiment.

Why are you weird, Lucky, and messing with my worldbuilding?