So with this whole line of lynchability thing...is that a bunch of neutrals mixed in with scumreads or do you scumread everybody under it to some extent?

How accurate would you say your reads generally are D1 in terms of finding groupscum.

 

Response to Fonti

Spoiler

I disagree with Blab's assessment. He stated it and it didn't sit right. Still doesn't. Considering it comes from one of the more scummy players in most everyone's lists right now, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. It's possible but IMO unlikely.

Honestly, it makes sense to me to have a natural flow going and then just press submit and forgetting which window you're in. Your QT or your main window. It happens. So there's one reason why. Another is I don't know how to explain you or why you'd be insulting me AGAIN in your entire post. E.G. "as per usual" etc. It also makes sense because when done in the right way it can look really townie.

About Bill Door -- You didn't state reads but with almost no answer you prod Atum to answer BD's question in 83 as if it is a townie question. You prod Atum and complain he is scum. Then in 92 you declare him a spy and in 227 you flip on that with 0 interaction with him between the two. I ran a search in 92 you post that Atum is scum and 227 it's all of a sudden he's town with Bill Door. You don't have to state "X is town" to be demonstrating a belief they are town and you were using BD's posts to poke Atum which generally indicates a belief the questioning has some merit which means you'd give them some credence towards being town. Which was my point. Yes woo hoo Fonti didn't outright state "I think Bill is town" before probing him like that but you sure as hell were acting like you thought he was. Which is my point.

1. Your point is my point is valid? Yeah no...I stated and enhanced my argument and now you're saying I'm borrowing yours. Like I am not following. Usually your points make some sense. But this post overall is just bleh.

2. You can't counter so again it is vapid nothingness from you. I stated words. Words are not nothing. Therefore read and respond to those words or say what is incorrect about said words. This point 2 is a fancy way of saying "I'm ignoring MathBlade..." again.

3. Again. Saying I'm not addressing your point doesn't make it true. Oh I didn't claim to scumread you for pushing Irene. I claimed I wanted to lynch you for continuing to discuss what I should and should not be feeling with Irene because I own my feelings. I believe I said that I didn't care if you push Irene and I still don't as I get information out of it. Blatant misrep here. I'm wanting you lynched because I scumread you for different reasons and partial policy lynch for what I feel should not happen in a mafia game.

The "Oops I forgot" is riddled with "as per usual" and other attacks towards my skill. Between that and how you opened it was clear you had no intention of actually reading/playing with me which didn't come out until I fingered you as potential scum. So I'm intentionally choosing to ignore it because I'm trying to stay civil here and am finding it hard to do so.

I'm asking you to not respond here unless you find something alignment related you feel you need to correct. We need to not have the thread cluttered up so people actually want to play.

Rubicon --

First part I would agree there are posts but they didn't feel like hunting posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathBlade
It feels almost like you're inviting him to post something so you can set him up for a mislynch.

Well, imagine hypothetically that I were scum. How would asking Atum to post something (his reads) help me set up him for a mislynch?

Atum is a natural lurker from his first few games. If wanting to frame someone as scummy it is easier to do the more they post. It's a trick I used in one of my mafia games on MS. You get them to open up and then you have something you can misrep or something outright scummy to tunnel/convince people on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathBlade
@Rubicon -- This feels extraordinarily defensive here for 2 day 1 votes and day1 can change rather rapidly. Why are you so defensive?

Rubicon Explain?

I have a specific way I like to scumhunt, and it works. If what I'm doing makes me seem scummy, then so be it. I don't intend to change something that works just because some people don't agree with it or someone threatens to vote me.
---
MathBlade: This post I like. It is calm and to the point. Still has an ick factor but has some townie feeling to it. What do you want me to explain?

Overall thank you for your reads:

Assume Atum is town, Polysemous scum. Who would be scum with Polysemous.

I think Rubicon is scum and so is Polysemous but Rubicon is addressing questions and following through with posts now so since Polysemous isn't going there now. But still willing to lynch him but it's not as high a scum read now as Polysemous.

Vote: Polysemous

 

One example: "Her response to my attack was a purely emotional one designed to make me look insane while trying to shame me away from continued pressure."

Her response may have been emotional, but you are making an assumption that her motive was to make you look bad or get you to stop pressuring her. That's not the impression I get from her posts.

It doesn't. But I'm really doubtful that this is what scum Irene looks like. Actually I keep wanting to quote Sloth's signature and replace his name with "Irene".

Citrus is null, and I wouldn't be able to explain my Waco read beyond gut and vague similarities to the filler game.

The others are scummy.

Generally? About average in larger games like this. I might catch one scum. 9p is the largest game I've ever called the scum team d1. And there are outliers like CYS when my reads are very good.

Are you trying to get me to doubt my read on you?

---------- Post automerged at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Ninja'd by math. Will reply to you when I get back online.

 

Rubicon: Do you have a convincing reason for your townread of Irene? Y/N.

 

Mathblade why do you think I'm scummy? Because I'm flip flopping on Bill door from likely scum to likely town early in day 1? I gave my reasons and they come from a strong town read on atum.

I honestly don't know if it's a good strategy or not to air out your suspicions without being too sure but I think it's early enough in day 1 that discussion can only be good for town.

I analyzed Rubicon and he seems scummy so I'm willing to vote for him until and unless I can come up with a more scummy target (coming soon?) But that requires some more analysis and I'll quote the great Titus here:

"Wagonz be good"

 

Will you be continuing your series of player analyses?

 

At this point I can't shake the feeling that there is definitely bussing taking place here. Titus outright ignoring me unless it is to call me Scum in response to someone else is not helping the feeling.

Tomorrow afternoon/evening I'm going back through this thread and comparing everything stated about another player in one post against the actual posts :/

---------- Post automerged at 23:46 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------

And FYI, Atum you're town IMO as of today. I'm less sure of Irene due to Fonti.

 

So you didn't flip flop on Bill Door like you said earlier... Or did you just claim you did flip flop...

I'm just going to link #423 here to refute this comment

---------- Post automerged at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 PM ----------

@HisFluff: Since you didn't include them in your read-wall in #316 what are your reads on Rubicon, Irene, and Fontisian? Also, have any of your other reads changed since then?

 

I claimed I went back and forth between likely scum and likely town.

I was going to make a massive post about Scum!Irene but it was taking too much effort (she makes huge posts....) and I didn't have time for it.

It's day 1, I don't see any compunction about voting for someone I see as possible scum if there's a bandwagon even if I have a few more scummy people line up. I will however make an attempt to convince other people that the people I see as more scummy (you included) are indeed better targets.

@fluffi, yeah I'm planning on doing it for all my scum reads. I'm gonna do one per day per every scum read of mine so I can go back and reference them in future days.

 

Well TIME TO START CRACKING.

Rubicon Post #333 Not sure if I agree with about the logic of that but I accept your explanation for now.

[MENTION]Mathblade[/USER] #335

Regarding The Waco Kid: I already filled the ‘possible 3rd party’ list so I don’t actually see Waco Kid as 3rd party. When the game started Waco was throwing questions when stuff was happening that was short but related to the topic. After that he started veering off to random questions but explained it with ‘I wanted reactions on players who have a decent body of posts so far, and people that for the most part I have limited/no experience with.’ If anything, I feel like him throwing random questions around actually draws more attention to him because he’s not explaining them and weirding the people who he asked out, that’s why in my first read wall I said he’s leaning town then, but possibly 3rd party. Then Polysemous and blab called him out on it and he basically carried on with a little more explanation but not getting defensive, I thought I liked his response for that and put him in the ‘definitely not scum but possible 3rd party’ group.’ Then after my fight his response to my #291 post I agree with his analysis of Polysemous and thought he didn’t really sound that annoyed about being called 3rd party, so for now I am pulling him out of the 3rd party possibility, mostly because I feel like if he genuinely is a survivor 3rd party he would be a little more defensive at directly voting against Polysemous for calling him out (Basically drawing Poly/scum team wrath since he thinks Poly is scum on himself if he was 3P). So that’s my read on him.

Anyway, agree with you about Rubicon, and you already know my views on rubi/fonti. If you need elaboration do explain what about them you want an opinion of. #344 was a post I agreed with except that I don’t think Snowvon is scum as much as lazy!Town or busy!Town, which I explained in a previous post. Not getting into the Fonti/you exchange except to say that #353 about fluffiness. I will give you my version.

The fluffiness reads by me:
“Feels a little... I'm not unconvinced by I don't totally buy it. I'm watching you fluffiness. But I feel he's leaning on townie. Not the sharpest tool in the box, but he doesn't have the scummy feel. “ Post #228 from me I also concluded with “The rest I get no decent reads for. “ including fluffiness with the rest of the ‘no reads yet’ group.
“He goes on to make decent points about lucky, Titus and MB that I feel he is… not exactly town, but I’m putting him at 60% town. He may still be scum but honestly you’re more likely at the moment fonti. “ #245
“As I said, I am putting fluffiness roughly around Riley/luckylee level where they are scummy seeming if I assume they are really as stupid as they seem, but otherwise I am more concerned with blab.” To Rubicon in the same post
“I really think fluffiness is not THAT scummy because his display of stupidity was over quite a few posts long stretches of time. My focus now, however, is Blab and Rubicon. Fluffiness is on the luckylee/riley scum level now. And I didn't try to imply Atum and fluffiness are similar… Atum is definitely more towny based on how aggressive and not giving a damn he is playing but fluffiness isn't nearly as scummy as you are making him out to be. Yes, his actions definitely are scummy for his first few posts, but it didn't tick me off in the 'how do you explain that if you're town way' but in the 'holy shit he's stupid or scum.'
“The same goes for fluffiness, but he did it less so seems more scummy, but still not… there, you know? “
“But about the fluffiness thing: Lol, I’m advocating backing off fluff because I don’t WANT to lynch somebody who is scummy to me but not NEARLY as scummy as Blab/Rubicon. “
“Scum possibly 3rd party: a bit more fluffiness, and um, possibility of Polysemous? “ All three quotes #291
“I remain of the view I said about watching fluffiness. He also leans scum for me, in case you didn’t see my last list, and I agree with your reasons for scumreading him, I think he’s scummy but it’s always relative to people and unfortunately for you he’s not near the top of my list yet, because I feel he’s too smart to play that way as scum. Yup. “ #323
This was before the fight with fonti.

I said initially fluffiness leaned town with but refrained from categorizing him with the scum in #228. After Rubicon/Fonti gave more views, in #245 I said he feels like he leans 60% town and I was more concerned with blab. Further reads from other people and so at #291 I said in the same post multiple times, where after considering what Rubicon and fontisian said I decided that fluffiness was scummy but not as scummy as fontisian was pushing, and that he was scummy but my priority wasn’t with him, ending the post with him as possible scum below my top four. So the fluffiness is scum thing definitely changed over a span of ALMOST A HUNDRED POSTS upon further discussion, it was not a sudden change and it was not uncalled for. That is my response to the fluffiness situation.

[MENTION]His fluffiness[/USER] I still want your read on me that you ignored. Thank you.

I hope this answer your question. Agree regarding #356, #370 regarding Zenzao, BUT I don’t agree about Polysemous yet. I would like to poke him more before but Rubicon is definitely scummier.

[MENTION]blab[/USER] #338
When fluffiness made points when luckylee made points, I responded to them. When people asked me questions/reads I responded to them. I don’t ignore them. And that is a philosophy I stick to even when I think people are stupid or scummy. I am sorry if I offended you.

Apologies for mixing the meta up for witch-hunt 4 and Brass and Tax. In that case, please disregard the point I made, which was in error. I will go back to read Brass and Tax when I am more free.

And the word about Atum was supposed to be town, sorry for the slip. Other than that, I have no issues with your post. Hope this was the response you were looking for.

Titus #340 #354
Could you explain why you town read blab? Thank you. I don’t... really buy your response to Waco, because I think ‘lol troll game’ is not a very townish response when a lot of people have been calling you out as 3p/scummy, but you’re not being wagoned yet so I guess you don’t care. I agree about Atum and Rubicon but I am not seeing how Zenzao is scum. Do you mind quoting the post number you stated your reason in, I can’t seem to find it. Thank you. Also sorry about the walls. If I have a direct question I will tag you and quote the relevant reads I want you to comment on, if that’s okay? Also I gave my explanation of fluff to Mathblade above if you are interested.

Also don’t get why 3rd party hunting is scum behaviour. Won’t town want to get rid of Allocen at this moment anyway? I mean Azrael’s not as big a problem but a good Allocen can really devastate town in a single night. Could you explain?

[MENTION]Luckylee[/USER]
Why does ‘he’s actually posting a lot’ an indication is town? Why do you think Atum is scum?

Agree about Atum/BillDoor and fluffy/fonti but it can also be scum bussing, so what do you think about that possibility?

I am confused why you suddenly jump to Fontisian about your highest scum read. Smells like some bussing to me. Could you explain? But if you can, I am sorry for my accusations about you bussing, and please do not be offended at me still being convinced that you are scum.

Snowvon #367
I based my opinion on your opinion in the post you voted about ZEnzao, which explained why you did.

“Well, for one, when you initially voted him, the vote seemed to be completely irrelevant in the post's context. You were super defensive over being compelled to check the flavor for errors, or something. And then you slapped down what was probably a reaction vote. Why is Atum scummy for thinking it's scummy that you would focus on something that doesn't have much to do with the actual game?” this was from your post, which I said I disagreed with but it’s just different reasoning style.
Or were you joking at Mathblade? Sorry if you are.

Also in #382. Can you expound on what I have written doesn’t make sense for you in the posts before the fontisian fight?
And… sorry about being really gross. :\

Zenzao #381
I agree about BillDoor and Kento, but what do you agree about Mathblade with fonti if you please?

[MENTION]Polysemous[/USER] #389 #391
Agree about Rubicon but regarding fluffiness: I think it is acceptable for someone to townfirm person A even if he doesn’t believe person B that A is pushing for is scum, because the way of pushing for them may have convinced them meta!game or otherwise.

Also could you explain why is trolling titus not scum? Also why you read BillDoor as scum despite almost everyone else townfirming him? You even did it yourself, as Waco Kid pointed out. Maybe give us your thought process.
And seriously why did you just jump on Rubicon bandwagon?? Thank you.

[MENTION]BillDoor[/USER] why is lucky a town read, could you explain?

[MENTION]Citrus[/USER] [MENTION]Kento Kraitos[/USER]: Please say something. Relevant to the current discussion (post reads and explain etc.)

[MENTION]Riley[/USER] #401 #405 all the way through #430
I think given that Day One is ten IRL days it is fair to want to make sure it’s not a mislynch. I feel like I agree about Titus but do you have a reason for townreading Citrus, there’s not really many opinions on him since he has been busy so I’m curious.

I take back everything I said about you being stupid, I was really impressed with some of your points here. I agree mostly about Titus (and read her as 3rd party) but I need to say this: If Titus is scum, it feels like trolling game is too far standing out and doesn’t fit that ‘hide among posters’ mentality, so that confuses me. So are you saying your vote on Titus is a symbolic vote instead of trying to start a Wagon?

If you are free though, could you go back and read through the posts before the fight ignoring the personal attacks and give me an opinion/disagreement about any points? Thank you. Also other reads beyond Titus (Namely your likely scum team of four, why pick them? You gave a short paragraph but how does atum and blab ping your scumdar?) and explanation would be good, I want to see more of your thought process. Competent!Riley makes me a little nervous, but don’t worry it’s not a scum-tell for me yet. I am just intrigued.

Also regarding your point on me: I am busy, but you have played with me before, and every game I give my 110% whenever I’m between classes/free from projects I try to read and post. Also, why are you voting Titus instead of me, if you think I’m Allocen?

Rubicon
Mathblade has her own reasoning for calling the Atum call weird but here’s mine: I think given what Atum has displayed so far, you asking him for reads is just going to get him to rebel against authority more and then you can quote it as he avoiding giving reads. That would be my suspicion behind your motive. I may be wrong about how Atum will respond though.

I really respect your response regarding scumhunting, though I feel that if you change your style of posting it will imply backtracking and further implicate you as scum, so lol. On principle though this is a good response.

That being said, if you are town, why are you scum-calling Atum for basically refusing to change his playstyle because BillDoor voted for him? If your argument is that he’s being un-cooperative, from my view you drawing further suspicion on yourself without defending yourself may make us mislynch you if you’re town and isn’t that bad for town? But if you defend yourself you’re defensive… You really can’t win huh?

Thank you for your vote in confidence in me, but can you give your reads of Atum’s further responses and why your vote is still on him?

I think I addressed most posts I needed to. If I missed any, tag me.

My vote remains on blab for now because I’m still not fully convinced he’s not 3rd party or scum, but if at the end it seems Rubicon is more convincing I will switch my vote to him.

 

Spoiler

ScumCitrus to me always seems to have way more posts in thread. As I noted in this post though, my D1 list is mostly based on gut reads and how I interpret their reactions in a more instinctive way. Basically, i wait a bit for thread to fill out, then read up and make small decisions based on how the thread reads to me. Citrus hasn't done anything to really make me feel scumminess. But his few questions are still pertinent enough to give a town feel.

As of the moment, it could be symbolic I suppose, but honestly I'd be happy with a wagon on Titus by end of D1. Also, I've learned that in mafia there's no such thing as standing out too much if you're competent enough to spin it properly. Plus I really don't think she's scum. Just 3p.

I have literally put into the thread what's in my notes at home. i don't really have much more in terms of scum stuff. As for scumdar, based on meta, thread structure and reaction posts, Atum is way too cocksure and happy with it, which to me has been a Scum thing since Jon but Atum does it every. single. game. Blab, on the other hand, is very quiet for someone I know is much better than me at Mafia. it's worrying. Thus, a ping from each of them.

Noted and the reasoning is that I'm less sure you're Allocen than I am that Titus is 3p of some kind. Thus my vote is still on Titus.

Tl;DR I answered some of Irene's questions.

 

Irene

First things first, I do not care if you do not buy lol troll game. Scum me gives the answer people like. Town me gives the truth.

Blab is town because he looks exactly like WitchHunt to me. He's clear and articulate without an agenda.

Third party hunting is scummy because scum are harder to find and harder to lynch. Second, scum can hide by 3p hunting. It is hard to fake scumhunting. So rather than scumhunt, groupscum third party hunt.

Third parties can also third party hunt but you would expect that only from the Riddleresque role until late.

---------- Post automerged at 07:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 AM ----------
Riley Irene

That response from Riley is off and I know that from sentence one. So I am correcting this shit. Citrus !scum lurks like a motherfucker in Wirchhunt 4.

The second paragraph tries to take the vanity wagon and pushing my wagon positions. Pretty clear Riley has no desire to give real reads. His Citrus attempt was wrong by post 1.

He also says he is reading Irene as the Riddler but wants to lynch the Survivor (me).

 

Oh my goodness Titus. I thought we were done arguing for now.

First off, i said it seems to me, as in from what I have experienced. Not Titus, stop trying to interject your world into mine. If she wanted your opinion she would have asked.

I have no clue what you mean by vanity wagon. All I know is that I am more certain you are a 3p of some kind than that she is specifically Allocen. Or do you want to twist my words again. Because that is a real read. As are at least two of my scum reads and the other two I've explained.

I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that if Irene is 3p that's what i would expect her to be. I want to lynch you however because I feel like you're 3p regardless of which one it is.

Stop trying to make me look stupid. Please, just stop.

 

Riley,

Oh you've explained two scumreads...pissing you off seems to get you off your fence.

Atum is cocksure as scum but he does it every game is not taking a position Atum is scum. Blab pings because he is quiet. Pings is not a confident position at all. Plus Blab hasn't been as quiet as Citrus whose activity this game you literally tried to spin as town when meta says the opposite.

If you don't want to look stupid, scumhunt with actual, truthfil reasons.

 

So because I don't scumhunt in a manner you're ok with, I'm not scum hunting properly.

Because I chose to focus on something that caught me and now I have a feeling you're 3p and I'm pushing it instead of "looking for scum", I'm not scum hunting properly.

Because my world view and the way I see the game doesn't fit yours, i'm not scum hunting properly.

Really?

Question for everyone else: Can we lynch Titus please before her 3p and words allow us to overlook this? If I'm wrong, then by G-d lynch the shit out of me. But Titus is not a friend to town.

Titus, I don't need any further responses. I'm convinced. I'm also done.

 

Yeah, lies bullshit and being obviously scummy do not fit within a town worldview. We agree on that.
Third party hunting is a near universal scumtell on other sites. You doubling down on that because you hate me or are butthurt does nothing for you.
Also, I am very much a friend to the town.

Newsflash, scum don't crumb. So even if you wagon me, your attempt will fail.

---------- Post automerged at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------

Part 2 for math,

Visible Solar Eclipse + Bahamut = Titus

I got your back. This is a bastard game. Go crazy on it.

 

Mods: Can you guys poke Kento? He's been MIA for nearly 4 days

 

i've done so

 

My scum read on Fonti is based purely upon her jumping from voting to Fluffy to me without explaining it in the slightest. Her timing of voting me right after I asked Von about her also felt off.


She is also completely ignoring me, which means I'm either completely off and she doesn't care about my idiotic deductions, or she is scum and knows I don't have the ability to sway others to vote her.

Rubicon- Posting a lot has nothing to do with it. I didn't even notice most his early post. But his interaction with Atum seems like a townie trying to give townie advice.

Titus, who do you feel is scummier, Fonti or Irene.

 

Irene Yeah, the part about seeing the Invisible was a joke to MathBlade. Perhaps a little snarky.

I could see where you were going with scum!fontisian initially, then you two started duking it out and you went from civil to pissy to apologetic to almost mean. Then your fonti push just looked more...agenda-y. Like you're getting rid of the players who pose a threat to you. Before you were all "fonti ilu and everything but if you're scum i'm going to be SAD" and then suddenly it was "you're an embarrassment please don't think of me fondly it's gross" ??? Like that was kind of over the top and I don't know what kind of reaction you were hoping to get out of that?

If you could condense your case on fonti to the bare minimum points, sans emotions, I'd like to read it again and get a better idea of where you stand. I admire how much effort you're putting into your posts and I thank you for the tl;drs, but your mood swings are sort of distracting.

And then w/r/t Rubicon and blab, eh. I'm not feeling it? Rubicon is a mysterious mystery who mysteriously mysteriouses, and blab has been gone a while so who even knows how he plays. I'm confusing myself. I'll look at your and their posts again.