Yeah, the ending was all a bit contrived, and the whole rationalist thing could have been toned down a lot. I don't mind a Naruto who uses logic and exploits the system, but mentioning things like game theory just didn't seem necessary. The story could have gone down exactly the same way but without all the rationalist lingo, and it would have alienated a lot less readers.

Anyway, the original ideas, post-apocalyptic setting, deadly combat, well written fight scenes and cool characterisation of Sasuke make this a better than average story. Now that it's finished I'd give it a 3.5/5, rounded up to 4 because I did find myself enjoying it, despite its flaws.

 

This had a bunch of cool ideas and some great scenes, but really gets dragged down by the constant rationalist... stuff.

Also the Author had no sense of restraint wrt Naruto's power level, which may have been the point but it doesn't make for a particularly exciting story.

The killing people just for the sake of killing people (pretty much every 'named' character death) was grating too - Naruto and co just seemed to shrug and move on with their day.

I'd rate 3.5 if it were possible, but I'll round down to 3 because imo this has 0 reread value.

 

I'm like 90% sure that the majority of people that write "rationalist" fiction also happen to be card carrying /r/atheism subscribers.

That entails any description a 'rational' author might use for emotional impact gone, so named characters dying for no real reason is par for the course.

 

Is that your conclusion from this one data point? What is your sample here that you base this judgment on?
Am I too 'rational' for even asking?
All other stories I can think of in this 'genre' don't have this problem. (They often have other problems in structure or writing, but not this particular one.)

 

I feel so empowered.

 

I am not certain if the author did it intentionally, but this is one of the few fics that I felt was written about ninjas with magic scary death powers, and less a shounen TV show or a grand Adventure story. It does this with Suddenness. Suddenly, Ninjas is not overplayed here, but instead it is replaced with all things happening suddenly. There are no epic struggles that last forever. Fights are short, brutal, and final. Hinata's fight in particular is notable for this.

But this is not very well done. The rationalist aspect was held true, and wasn't just the author showing his/her math degree. But I freely admit i skipped paragraphs upon paragraphs of counting out how many millichakras or whatever it was.
I keep my 4/5. Library worthy, fits within a good niche, but not universally enjoyable.

 

I don't even particularly believe it, but I do have an issue with how the entire genre seems to be based around sticking a rational erection right down the readers throat via a character who's a major sue. Reminds me all too much of just how stupid r/atheism really was.

In any event, I haven't managed to find a single "rational" story with some what human characters, they have all managed to be contrived devices overall for the author to prove how rational they are.

You're right in calling me out though, that was a particularly stupid statement.

 

Wow, three pages of comments. I'll read through them later, so expect that what I have to say has already been said before.

This is a lab report. It is just as dry and doubly less entertaining because it drags on and on and on about irrelevant minutia to the plot.

The plot (the 10% of the time the writer spends on it) is interesting in how s/he changes things. AUness is always appreciated. I stuck with 5 chapters just to see what came of it. But eventually I couldn't take the hundreds upon hundreds of words spent on how many chakra units it takes to do 'x' jutsu. And how exactly Naruto arrived at that conclusion.

Story writing is not lab report writing. I don't know how this can be missed.

1/5. Points only for spelling and grammar and brief glimpses of departure from canon.

Story wise it's a 0/5.

 

The part about game theory made me lol then X out

 

Just finished The Waves Arisen.

It was interesting initially, but the time when I thought things would start to get more interesting (when the trio go nukenin), it actually nosedived - aside from the one Kyuubi incident, which was brilliant, there was no tension. Fundamentally, it's a bad story - there is no real conflict, no struggle, no battle of mind and body and soul. There's only the author applying rationality in the context of a fictional world, and that's just fucking boring.

And let's not talk about the characters - they all felt kind of sock-puppet like (i.e. they have no distinct voice), which isn't the end of the world, since it's quite hard to giving characters a living, breathing voice. What's really unforgiveable is that towards the end no one has any agency or distinct motivation - the whole story really is about Naruto (or rather, the author's SI/OC) wanking his way to world domination.

The final thing - what is the story about, really? It's definitely not about people, and what is of human concern - things like death or joy or love. The story isn't even about peace, and how to get it - because the story says nothing interesting or deep or even true about how human hatred and selfishness and distrust can be overcome. The original Naruto story had an answer - which is that you must learn to forgive those who wronged you. Somewhat simplistic, maybe, but also relevantly true. Here? The answer provided is essentially a deus ex machine - a well-intentioned character gets the power of a God, and uses that to subjugate everyone. And that's just fucking stupid, and as far from realistic as New York is to the Moon.

3/5 - interesting ideas, shit execution, shittier conclusion.

 

Just read through this fic, and there's no necro rule in the library, so here's my review.

TL;DR 2.5/5 to 3/5, agreed with many that the characters are wooden.


Warning: Long rant + pointless calcs ahead


First , the characterization. No one in the fic felt like a person. Naruto is mostly flat as a character, Hinata and Sasuke are interchangeable by the end as allies that listen to Naruto, and everyone else is basically emotionless + some small quirk to make them unique. Jiraiya is a dick (dismissing Sasuke and Hinata with no moral qualms) + perverted. Tsunade is a bitch + likes gambling. Konan is emotionless + wants dead!Yahiko back. Itachi is killed offscreen with a single scene of Sasuke crying after and deciding to join Naruto’s “save the world by being god-emperor.” No emotional impact, just like the rest of the fic. Almost everyone is easily described by 2-3 tags, that’s how simple they are as characters.

So that removes a whole bunch of possible enjoyment from the fic, because I had trouble feeling anything, or believing any characters felt anything, from anything whatsoever. I think the most emotional part of the fic was Pain's ending when he realizes Naruto has won with his infinite chakra trick. Yes. Frustration was the single emotion well conveyed by this fic.

Second, the worldbuilding makes zero sense. The whole "water jutsus making sea level rise" is cool for about 30 seconds-- and then the stupidity of it hits you in the face.
For a fic obsessed with crunching numbers, this is a hilarious mistake. I’m going to go through the whole mess of rough calcs because a chunk of this fic is Naruto multiplying “millichakra’s” around, so showing it fails by its own rules is satisfying.
Calculations

Why did I go through such a tedious calculation?

To show that even at what the fic claims to be good at—actually taking chakra and ninjutsu seriously—it fails.

Third , the cleverness of this Naruto is based almost entirely on exploits that only work because the author has constructed them that way. The way to win (infinite chakra) that Naruto used is so hilariously arbitrary and meaningless I’m tempted to call this fic a parody of munchkin fics.
But that would be too self-aware for this fic, so I think its just shitty writing.
Apart from robotic characters, nonsensical world building, and fake cleverness, the actions of the ninja villages are hilariously stupid.


Some plot stupidities:

1. Danzo assassinates Kakashi and Gai. Okay. Let’s think that through. Other than Jiraiya and Tsunade, they are the Leaf’s two strongest ninja. They are also popular and well-known. Danzo is crippling Konoha. For what? For some vaguely hinted at possibility that they’ll suspect Danzo of killing the 3rd Hokage. Danzo is hilariously stupid in canon, but if this fic is trying to pretend to be intelligent or rational, then this kind of plot move is a massive plot hole.


2. Sending Sai to kill Team 7. How does Danzo think this is possible or likely? Sending a Chuunin to deal with 3 Genin, is, by itself, an iffy situation. Sending a Chuunin not specialized for combat who is hilariously inept at acting to assassinate 3 Genin who are known to be reasonably good fighters (Sasuke is rookie of the year, Hinata has Gentle Fist, Naruto can use Shadow Clones) is laughably stupid. Sure, Danzo sent Sai to kill Sasuke in canon, which is also hilarious, but this fic purports to be rational. Not seeing it.


More subjective issues with the fic:


The fic has a couple of moments that seem to be just mean spirited parody of canon!Naruto. Like this:

The fic is also transparently a plug for LessWrong style learning:

I enjoyed reading much of the LessWrong sequences, but HPMOR and Waves Arisen have both soured me on them by proxy.


An unfortunate similarity between this fic and HPMOR is the way they both make chakra/magic mechanics immensely uninteresting and mechanical. Chakra is quantified in this fic, and the spiritual side of chakra is completely ignored. Naruto achieves Sage mode in about a week with no guidance, Bjuu are reduced to “chakra that corrupts your mind”, chakra powers are reduced to powerups, and not treated as anything special. Its as if someone was playing a videogame of Naruto. That’s how mechanical everything is. In canon the “powerups” characters get usually come with emotional consequences.


For example:

Cursed Seal=makes Sasuke ruthless, symbolizes dependence on Orochmaru, thirst for power, etc.

Kyuubi chakra=makes Naruto mindless at higher levels, makes him angry at lower levels, hatred of Kyuubi

Mangekeyo Sharingan=obtained only after great suffering, strengthened through anguish and hatred, blindness can be reversed only through a brother/relative’s eyes

Sage mode=obtained only through meditation and stillness, great effort, and leads to heightened awareness of nature.

By contrast, this fic has very little emotional impact. The only exception is Kyuubi chakra…which is resolved by admittedly clever wordplay and trickery.

The fic does have competent writing and some clever moments, along with some genuinely funny lines. But the characters and plot and worldbuilding ruin it for me.


2.5 to 3/5