1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Complete Mother of Learning by nobody103 - T - Original Fantasy

Discussion in 'Original Fiction' started by Betosa, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Clerith

    Clerith Ahegao Emperor ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    176
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    High Score:
    1645
    Cool. I like self-improvement chapters, and laying groundwork for future adventures.
     
  2. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    The South
    I don't think the author has set out to create a video game type feel, but finding the mansion in the middle of nowhere with all it's defenses gave me a strong feeling of game-related deja vu. Almost as if I'd accidentally wandered into a level 40 area when I'm still level 20. Skirt around the edges of the area for a quick look before quietly backing out.
     
  3. nath1607

    nath1607 Groundskeeper

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    352
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    What do you think the Red Mage's role in this is? It seems that it would get frustrating to actively intervene constantly knowing that at the end of the month it is going to end regardless, and it was shown during the battle at the Acadamy that the Necromancer has little respect for him implying not a substantial involvement in of itself.

    So, what is he doing while Zorian is training so it Zorian kind of shooting himself in the foot as his enemies grow stronger and stronger?

    I am also surprised his family isn't more involved in the story. During his time at the Academy he never once cared that his brother was there and likely died, nor has he gone of for training by his magically super skilled brother which one would think would provide great training and I personally assumed would happen after the Academy arc. Rather than gathering small fragments of knowledge everywhere, he could go to someone he has a relationship (even if it's not positive on his side, I'm unsure if Daimon has matured since) and is greatly skilled boosting his growth in numerous fields of magic.
     
  4. yak

    yak Moderator DLP Supporter Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,001
    Location:
    Australia
    I'd completely forgotten about Fortov and had to ctrl-f Ch1 before I could recall him. :(

    I've been waiting for Daimen to enter the story too. With the time loops running out, I think that we're either going to be seeing him soon or not until the end. This story is Zorian's coming-of-age and about him standing on his own right, an individual, separate from his brothers.

    I don't know what way the story will go. Will Zorian seek out and reconcile with his brothers because he needs their help before the end, or will he face the end on his own merits [and those of his friends] without his brothers overshadowing him?

    I still can't believe I forgot about the charmingly irresponsible Fortov, let alone him being at the academy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  5. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    The South
    Does Zorian know about the time loops running out? I pieced it together, but I had the impression that while Zorian has the same information he hadn't quite managed to do so. But I can't remember why I think that. More info regarding that is wrapped up in the memory packet most likely, right?
     
  6. ronin11

    ronin11 First Year

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    41
    Not counting his sister (and even that is a result of the time loop), he doesn't really like his family all that much. As I recall, his original plan, before this whole thing hapened, was to finish his education, move away and never speak with them again.

    Besides, living in a time loop probably gives you a different perspective on the whole dying thing. It's not like anybody stays dead. Well, except for the aranas obviously.

    There are few obstacles for Daimen's involvement. First of all, he's on a different continent. I think I remember Zorian's mother saying he's leading a team digging through some old ruins, and that it would take them entire month to even get there, so he's kinda out of reach. Also, Zorian thinks he's an asshole.

    But personally, I think Daimen might already be involved. Remember that fragmented message Matriarch left for Zorian in male aranas minds? He didn't get the whole thing, but I think one part mentioned ''...a whole other continent...''. The fact that we have this briliant, ambitious mage playing Indiana Jones around the time this whole thing started sounds suspicious. Who knows what he found there? For all we know he might be the Red Robe himself. It's a bit far-fetched, but I think there might be something to it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  7. Xantam

    Xantam Denarii Host

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Denver
    IIRC he knows that the time loop is unstable, but has determined that it is not going to end anytime soon.
     
  8. Lyndon Eye

    Lyndon Eye Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,358
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I just read the entire story in one sitting and am incredibly frustrated.

    First off -- it's so well written. The author definitely has a knack for characterization and I found myself enjoying all the rabbit holes that Zorian goes down in each new episode. As a powerless protagonist, Zorian has put in a lot of hard work to get to where he is now: competent.

    While his 'power-up' pace is realistic (I mean, how much can anyone power-up in a couple of years anyways?), it begs the question Where is this story going?

    Even in the most recent restarts, Zorian can be defeated by any competent middle-aged mage. How is he ever going to match Red Robe's level of ability? Even Zach is still twenty times as powerful as him. Zorian's continued powerlessness, combined with the lack of a plan (now that the Arenea are gone) makes the end seem sooooo far away. Not exactly reassuring, after nearly a quarter million words.

    My suspicion is that Zorian's going to come across a magic bullet soon that will catapult him into a relevant player again. If not, and this slow pace continues for another quarter million words, readers will get tired.

    Overall -- 4.5/5. Brilliantly done. A joy to read... until it begins to drag.
     
  9. Mock Moniker

    Mock Moniker Professor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    I think Zach will always be 20 times more powerful than anyone. He's some sort of freak outlier.

    Zorian, I expect, will never win by being more powerful than his opponents. He relies on trickery, deception, and skill. I actually like the fact that the story makes it pretty clear he's drastically outclassed in terms of raw power, and will always remain so despite his best efforts.

    As far as the ending, I think the author has said he's something like 1/3rd of the way through. He's planned 3 arcs, and we're now in the beginning of the 2nd (first arc ended with the Red Robes confrontation that killed the Aranea).

    Sooo.... yeah, your fear that it will drag on for a long time is pretty valid. But I think I'll stick with this fic for the long haul.
     
  10. Xantam

    Xantam Denarii Host

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Denver
    I suspect that Zorian's shaping skill will be a viable substitute for raw power, as he continues to master shaping techniques.
     
  11. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    It better be. If he just got "raw power" from practicing in the loop for so long, it'd be a downer. I'd prefer to read about a skillful protagonist than one with a lot of muscle.
     
  12. theronin

    theronin Order Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    867
    This is not even close to true. The people who we see smack him around are clearly portrayed as being far above average. Zorian is pretty clearly above average, but still a significant step below the top tier.
     
  13. Mock Moniker

    Mock Moniker Professor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    I would disagree with that. I think that any competent middle aged mage (competent meaning someone who actually practices battle magic like Kyron) should wipe the floor with Zorian in a fair fight (of course, Zorian does not fight fair). Time loop or no, they should have not only an innate power advantage (it is explicitly pointed out several times that only people with high-end mana reserves go on to become battle mages, and Zorian is actually below average in that regard), but also a few decades of experience on him.

    Zorian has been practicing for years in the time loop- not decades.
     
  14. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    Zorian has peculiar skills for his apparent age. He would likely beat any "average" middle-aged mage in a "fair fight" even - provided "mind-taps" are "fair". Being totally disoriented for even a second in a fight is all you need to win. Of course, most skilled mages could out-power him, but unless they barraged him hard and fast from the very beginning, he would likely win I think! He has his apparent age going for him, plus his odd skills, learning under a variety of weird teachers... and he is exceptionally skilled now for his age. I could also see him losing, but I think he wouldn't be a pushover.
     
  15. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    The South
    For some reason I thought he'd been in the time loop for about 13-14 years now. That'd put him at or over 30, and he's spent a fair amount of that time practicing and getting actual combat experience.

    I'd argue that Zorian is about on par with a competent middle-aged mage overall. He's got some esoteric skills that might put him above them in some cases, especially if he can surprise them, but his power reserves are lower on average so that might even it out.

    The assassin that showed up in the... last chapter? Or next to last. Zorian woke up and won that fight. Given that the assassination attempt was probably tangentially related to the 'big plot' (it was in response to Zorian stealing those documents, which he thinks are in some way related), I'd assume that they sent someone 'competent' to deal with someone else capable of stealing those in the first place.

    Now, you said you'd define 'competent' middle aged mage as someone who practices battle magic regularly like Kyron. I'd call someone who practices Battle Magic specifically a specialist. Toss Zorian into a fair one-on-one fight with a middle aged someone who specializes in combat and he'd probably lose. But take the same match-up with different circumstances and Zorian might manage to be tricky enough to pull out a win.

    But the generic 'competent middle aged mage' makes me of a good all-arounder, and I think that's about where he is.
     
  16. Lyndon Eye

    Lyndon Eye Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,358
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I was thinking 2-4 years (24-48 cycles) -- did anyone keep track while reading and have an answer for certain?
     
  17. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    The South
    You're right, I'm wrong. From Chapter 32:

    Yeah, it was not cheap in terms of mana use - it required enough mana that Zorian wouldn't have been able to cast it at all before the time loop, and even now, after 3 years of restarts, it would take a sizeable chunk of his reserves.

    That's the quote I was basing my earlier statements off of, but I remembered it as saying 13 years instead of 3.

    I still think Zorian could beat your average middle-aged mage in a fight, because most of them aren't going to have focused on combat techniques like Zorian (somewhat) has nor would they be likely to all have his experience. But a combat-oriented mage middle age would probably still kick his ass, but I consider them specialists.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
  18. Mock Moniker

    Mock Moniker Professor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    So I ended up re-reading this fic, and here's a little bit that stuck out:

    So, I'm guessing the girl has a cat, she goes after the bike, gets swept up by the river and drowns. Zorian doesn't realize this girl dies without his help, so now this girl dies at the start of every restart and the cat sits at the bridge feeling sad.
     
  19. theronin

    theronin Order Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    867
    That was the impression I had of it. It's a pretty nice touch which I kind of expect to be revisited at some point down the line.
     
  20. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    The South
    I've been re-reading this story, and while the first two chapters were a bit meh the second time around I got into things again around Chapter 3.

    One thing I noticed that I wanted to point out is that as of Chapter 7 Zach has spent almost 17 years in the time loop. So by the time that Zorian has spent his 3 years in it, and made more progress in figuring shit out than Zach ever did, Zach will have been in the time loop for almost 20 years.

    I liked realizing that, because it again emphasizes that while Zorian might never compete with Zach in terms of power... the fact that he's already made more progress in every other area (that isn't pure power) in so much less time is encouraging.