I'm personally kind of anti-copyright, but even so permission should be obtained from the author even if just for courtesy's sake. And this seems to have irritated quite a few people, so I've removed it from the sidebar of /r/hpfanfiction at least for now. As of the time I'm writing this the rules on their forums haven't been updated with anything about asking for permission.

 

May I ask, just for discussion's sake: why are many people not okay with someone else continuing something of theirs?

 

There is probably many reasons for just that, some might be that the stories authors write can become personal and everything that comes with that.

(many other reasons as well)

 

Especially as attempts to complete abandoned stories without consent from author are always utterly awful.

At least I am no aware about any exceptions.

 

It's the same reasons why any published author may wish to shut down fanfiction; personal attachment to their works, dislike of the quality of the derivatives, dislike of the concept, etc. Even devaluing the brand can apply to some fanfiction.

 

I said 'many', not 'so many' - just asking for some insight into why people wouldn't want someone else to continue their stories because I didn't quite understand it myself and wanted to hear others' opinions on the topic.

 

Every time someone has sent me a request asking permission to write a version of one of my fics, I've said yes. But that doesn't mean I'd be okay with people doing it without permission.

Kinda like how, if someone came to my house and asked to use the toilet, I'd probably let them. But that doesn't mean I want people just coming into my house and using it, especially as those people are the kind most likely to just take a shit on the kitchen floor.

For me, the issue is essentially one of creative control. In a fanfic-canon relationship, the canon remains the authoritative version, no matter what happens in the fanfic, no matter how popular the fanfic is, no matter how well-written the fanfic is. Regardless, canon is the correct version, recognised as such by everyone. This authority protects authors' creative control over their ideas, because they can take the story in any direction they like without fear of readers deciding that another version should be the "real" version from that moment on.

In a fanfic-fanfic relationship, there is no such protection. If I write a character, or a piece of magic, and another fanfic author then takes that idea and uses it with some minor variation, there's nothing I can do to protect the authoritative nature of my work as the originator. They're both just fanfics, and if readers decide that the alternative version is the primary version, I'm now the one writing a knock-off of their story, even though the idea started with me.

This is what happened with A Shattered Prophecy and The Darkness Within. The derivative completely supplanted the original.

This is only made worse when the fanfiction being copied is incomplete, because it magnifies the effect. At least if a story is complete, it has a certain permanence to it, it stands as a unit that is clearly distinct from continuations. A derivative continuation of an incomplete fic, on the other hand, can present itself as the inheritor of the original's legitimacy.

 

I think it seems to be some kind of divide between new netiquette and old netiquette.

People who have been involved in this kind of community back in the 90's and 00's know its just not done, while I suspect elements of reddit are more new to it, and are in a non fanfiction based community besides.

Issues of politeness aside, I dont quite grasp the point of their project. Most fanfiction rarely gets so far removed from HP that you couldnt just start another story and weave in elements, if you really are interested in seeing how a plot goes. This form of "shared culture" is how the community developed the glory of the magical trunk after all.

 

My understanding is that this is coming from a well-intentioned place - that is, this is a group of people who really love certain stories and want to see them completed. It's not the desire to write stories like Story X, it's a desire to see Story X completed as a finished work.

So, while I sympathize with that desire - I mean, I'm pretty sure every one of us has a few fics in the back of their head that they'd figuratively kill to see un-abandoned and completed - I also agree with everyone who's pointed out that silence = implied consent is kinda bullshit.

For me, it boils down to knowing my ideas are in good hands. For example, you mentioned in my WbA thread that you were considering (but ultimately decided against) writing a story that "mimicked" mine. My initial reaction to reading that was that I was thrilled: I obviously think it's a cool setup, because I spent time writing it, and I've read enough of your stuff to know you're a good writer, so it would have been awesome to see your take on it.

If you had gone ahead and written it, would you have needed my permission? I don't think so, if you were just taking elements from my story and reworking it (a "transformative work" I believe is the Fair Use phrase). I mean, I took elements from Harry Potter canon and The Order of the Stick and used them in my story, so it would be pretty hypocritical of me to turn around and tell you that I "own" that idea. Common courtesy would dictate a heads-up and/or a shoutout prefacing your own story, but I'm not sure I'd put the weight of a moral imperative behind it.

Now, let's say I was in a horrible car accident and my hands got burned off, leaving me unable to continue my story. Not a transformative work - literally taking the last chapter of my story and saying "This is picking up where Newcomb left off." Now that, I'd want - require, really - someone to ask my permission for, and I'd think long and hard about it. Mainly because it's attached to me, it directly affects me. It's personal. I can't really speak to the legality of it - not my area of expertise - but as a writer, I can tell you that I emphatically do attach ownership to my writing. Every idea comes from somewhere, yes, and I don't own those things, but the way I say it is all me.

If I were unable / unwilling to continue one of my stories, in the right hands it would be pretty amazing to see it taken up and completed. However, I definitely want to retain control over whose hands it ends up in.

 

I've had a few people message me, asking to continue my work (shocking, I know). I've turned them all down, because frankly, the stories they want to finish are shit, and yet, somehow I know that they would take them and somehow make them worse. Of course, they probably went ahead and did it anyways - I know of at least one story out there that uses one of mine (one of my vampire!harry) stories, and somehow made it worse. Usually these are the kind of people who want to change the pairings, make it a harem, make it slash, or at bashing to the story. Not really my cup of tea, so I say no every time.

 

I think it boils down to not trusting the other person to not fuck your story up. Most cases are simple, because the asker is quite simply a worse writer than the original author, and the decision to deny is quick and easy.

Even on cases where the asker possesses whatever amount of talent the author considers acceptable, accepting isn't an easy choice, because while he may be good, you have no guarantee he sees things the way you do and may choose to take the story in a direction opposite or simply not in line with what you had envisioned for your plot, which would leave most quite bitter, I think.

 

Huh. I've written some crap in the past, but I'm nowhere near an authority as any of the real authors. That said...

The whole concept of fanfiction is built on playing around in other peoples' sandboxes, frequently without any permission, tacit or otherwise.

It seems very hypocritical (if very understandable) that authors who themselves are relying on appropriating ideas of other authors are in turn refusing to allow others to do the same.

Copying the work directly? That's annoying and just rude. But saying "this is a fanfiction of fanfiction X that starts after chapter 26" seems no different to me than saying "this is a fanfiction of Naruto after chapter 431."

 

The difference is you're not the one posting the first 431 written by the original author. I think it's pretty important.