Something that happens exclusively in (bad) wrong-boy-who-lived fics: where characters treat Boy Who Lived like a title that already existed, just waiting to be filled.

Dumbledore: One of your twins defeated Voldemort!

Lily: Which one, Albus? Which one is the Boy Who Lived?

 

Added a few more words to make it an accurate pet peeve of mine.

 

Yeah this one doesn't really make any sense to be honest. It's got to be one of the most forced plot devices out there.

 

I'm a bit partial to the James Potter bash fest. However a peeve of mine is that it only seems to happen in wrong BWL fics.

 

Growing up I loved Harry Potter. I was the kid that bought and read the books the day they were released. As I get older and get closer to becoming an adult, parts of the HP Universe itself really really annoy me :X.. I won't even get into fanfiction in this post,there is so much stomach turning shit found in 98% of the stories I've seen(Drarry,Snarry,MPREG,SOULBONDS,VEELAMATE,CREATUREINHERITANCE,DRACOSEXGOD,HarryPottertheSubmissiveBitch)

So, I'm obviously biased being that I'm a finance/econ major..but the wizarding economy is not really covered, and when it is, it defies all logic. JK Rowling has stated that thinking in numbers is not really her strongest area, and looking at the books from a bankers perspective makes this obvious. There is no description of the wizarding monetary system except for a brief description of galleons, sickles, and knuts. JKR has stated in an interview (Comic Relief 2001) that she estimates the value of one Galleon to be "about five pounds". Really? So the contestants risked their life for 5,000 pounds? 7500$? That's it? Even contestants on shit reality television programs have the opportunity to make a million.

Any enterprising half-blood ocould take the skills they've gained in the wizarding world and the limited knowledge they have of the muggle world to become extremely wealthy.. How? Imperius, and Polyjuice could be used to steal from wealthy muggles. You can avoid the moral issues by stealing from those that abuse their political connections to amass their wealth. Ultrawealthy Russian/Arab types come to mind for me.. Once you converted your stolen wealth to gold, coming to an agreement with Gringotts for conversion to Galleons would not be too difficult, as they seem to be willing to do anything for gold. If I could not bring my wealth into the world
wizarding due to restrictions on galleons, gold is apparently seen as valuable and seems like it could be traded for other goods. Also, what is stopping me from using Transfiguration to create paper money? You can create gold with magic outside of the Philosophers Stone, but why can't you use Transfiguration to create paper money to buy gold with :X..

Please don't tell me that you'll be caught by the authorities. If Crouch can impersonate Moody for a year and not get caught, I can impersonate a Saudi Prince for a day in order to steal fifty million.

Really, the only time we get a description of how money impacts the story relates to Purebloods using their wealth to avoid prosecution following the first rise of Voldemort. There is no description of the financial system outside banking, and the system described would have no way to combat inflation caused by heavy use of a Philosophers Stone/wealthy Muggleborn.

It's obvious Rowling didn't think about economics or finance when she created her world, and I can forgive that.

A few other peeves:
Magic causes electronics to malfunction, yet the bloodwards and Harry's accidental magic outburts don't seem to effect anything in the Dursley home. What about labtops and PDAs in Kings Cross? How could they not blow out or stop functioning every September 1st?

What the fuck is the point of Astronomy? Someone tell me, maybe I missed it in the books.

Voldemort is a huge threat to the Statute of Secrecy and should have merited some kind of international response.

How many wizards/witches would it take to contain one of Dumbledore's caliber?

Why does Lucius get to walk away from Dumbledore post CoS? He should have had him killed and made to look like an accident. He almost orchestrated the rise of Voldemort two years early, and was almost responsible for stealing the soul of an eleven year old girl. Shit if I was her brother, I would kill him and flee the country. No response from any of the older Weasleys/Bill?

Why is Sirius so willing to work with people that abandoned him for over a decade?

If I were Dumbledore I would have had someone place Fudge under the Imperius. There was no reason to allow him to hamstring the war effort.

Draco should have been interrogated and then obliviated regarding his mission in HBP.

The ending of the books kind of pissed me off, using the Jesus storyline was so cliche.

Dumbledore ends up being a plot device instead of a character.

Obviously I didn't put much time or effort into organizing my thoughts/critique but I'm curious to see how y'alll respond to the points I raised..

 

I completely agree with you on most parts, though I don't really care about the financial element.

About electricity and magic - it's the heavy ambient magic in places like Hogwarts and Diagon Alley that causes disturbances in electricity, a smaller amount of magic doesn't cause the same effect.

Astronomy seems to have an impact on magic, like those plants that need to be harvested under the light of the full moon or whatever.

I think that part of the appeal of fanfiction is the ability to fix these plot holes, or at least to exploit them in imaginative ways.

 

Technically I believe this thread is for fic peeves, not really canon ones.

Regardless, yes much of what you said can be considered fairly true but can often be explained by the fact that Wizards are unable to think logically, in a way we can't really understand - because we do think logically, this is raised in book 1.

I do not know if it's canon or not that the amount of magical activity matters where electronics are concerned. Eg. We know they don't work in Hogwarts but I'm pretty sure we also know that some families live in muggle homes without issues. Otherwise I think it'd be quite difficult and less reasonable for a magical person to marry and live with a muggle in their home, nothing would work.

Astronomy probably has some purpose but was just never explained, not everything has to be explained, though it would be nice.

The ending of the book pissed pretty much everyone off, in fact the last 2 books entirely did. Definitely the weakest part of the series. I think many people here have grown to accept them though - but fuck the epilogue.

Explain how you think Dumbledore is a plot device and not a character because I don't quite understand.

I think that many wizards/witches would never even think to go and exploit the muggle world financially. The ones that do are probably few and far between and I'm sure there's a system in place that we were never made aware of to attempt to stop these people. Not because they want to stop them stealing but because it's a threat to the statute of secrecy.

Voldemort probably didn't get an international response because he never went international.

Lucius probably got away because there was no real evidence to link him to any crime except blackmailing the board of governors, which he was removed from.


I think you'll find the answers to most of your questions if you look a little deeper around here, pretty much everything has been discussed at least once I think.


EDIT:

I don't think canon has holes so much as it just doesn't explain every little thing connected to something of relevance in the universe. I could be wrong but I believe a plot hole means a mistake that contradicts something else in a way that the two can't really coexist. A simple lack of information doesn't count as hole, as far as I'm concerned anyway.

Filling in those blank spots is definitely one of the best parts of FF though I agree.

 

Wait, what? Just because an arrogant 11 year old girl says that Wizards can't think logically doesn't mean it's true. Wizards basically rule the world -- the Magical Minister treats the Muggle one like his Personal Assistant, for fuck's sake. They hide from the Muggle world (which is out of convenience, btw) so completely that no one knows they exist. If they wanted to conquer the Muggle world, they would do it in a heartbeat. You think you can do all that without any logic at all? They have enough logic, thank you very much.

 

Three words for you my friend... Statue of Secrecy. Pretty sure there are laws on/against using magic on muggles Also, you're assuming no one's done it or doing it. For all we know the con-artists who never get caught are witches or wizards in disguise.

The rest of your questions had some merit... but with this one you went into what I now call 'Alexx Territory'. Why didn't Dumbledore get Lucius killed? 'Cause despite what you might believe, he is actually a law-abiding citizen and not prone to getting people killed. And since none of Ginny's brothers are actually you, I can understand the lack of homicidal tendencies in her actual brothers. But hey feel free to kill the bloke whose actions lead to your sister's soul being stolen.

You also apparently didn't spend a lot of time actually browsing the site or you'd have found most of your questions have been discussed & dissected several times over. This section deals with fanfiction. There is a separate section if you want to discuss canon.

 

I'll accept the explanation of heavy ambient magical places. Also, thanks for the explanation on Astronomy.

Obviously Pureblood Wizards would not have the knowledge necessary to exploit the Muggle world. That is why I wrote that a Half-Blood or Muggleborn witch/wizard would exploit the opportunites available to them. How would they get caught? My understanding of canon is that the authorities can't track who uses the magic, only that magic has been used in a certain area.

If the wizard/witch is uses the Imperius on a wealthy muggle and forces them to leave the area they use the curse via car, then forces them to purchase/retrieve a large amount of gold, well, I can't see a how this crime would be solved. The muggle can't remember who used the curse on them, and it wouldn't matter if they could remember if the perpetrator was using polyjuice while cursing the individual. In fact, there is practically no risk in exposure of the wizarding world with this crime..most people would think the wealthy individual was having a mental breakdown. Only highplaced polticial leaders would know the truth, and they would have practically no recourse, even if they were able to convince the magical authorities to get involved.

I know these things (fin/eco problems) do not bother most HP Fans. They bother me due to my interest and understanding of economics and the monetary system and how they interact with society's evolution. Cool that y'all aren't interested or bothered by the issues I raised but merely saying they are not explained or they don't have to be explained doesn't really do anything but justify my critique of JKR's "world building."




CNN was already broadcasting international news during the 90's. The mainstream media loves murder mysteries and gruesome deaths because they generate alot of interest. You dont think international news organizations would flock to Great Britain if there were a string of murders that couldn't be solved? Especially as these murders happened at the same time as a strange weather phenomenon (caused by Dementors).. Of course they would. Yes, widescale oblivation can be used to counter this, but the strange occurrences would generate international interest, interst that could put pressure on the Statute..Hence, he wouldn't have had to leave Britain to generate an international response.

With regards to Dumbledore being a law-abiding citizen...really? He breaks the law throughout the series, . How is aiding Sirius Black not breaking the law? He aids Sirius by intentionally misdirecting the search for him via Kingsley, and by casting the Fidelius on his home. He also encourages Harry and Hermione to break the law in order to save him at the end of PoA. Why shouldn't he be willing to arrange for the kidnapping of Lucius Malfoy? Even if he opposed killing him, he could have been given the Draught of Living Death until Voldemort was defeated. He was the most dangerous political opponent Dumbledore had. I guess my point is that Dumbledore does not rely on the law to safeguard his allies, so there doesnt seem to be a reason why he relies on it for the removal of his enemies.

I don't think its ridiculous for a family member to want to kill a man who attempted to steal the soul of an 11 year old sister/daughter, apparently some people disagree with me here.

Canon definitely has holes but I will post my thoughts on these in the appropriate section.

Obviously exploiting wealthy muggles is illegal and a violation of the Statute. The point I raised is that it would be a law that is very easy to break and extremely difficult to enforce.

Sorry for posting in the wrong area :X.. These are my first few posts on this website, won't continue to post in the wrong area.

 

No need to get defensive. The way it was told in the story was clearly a way of informing us - the reader - something about the world and not the character's opinions. The scene was not about Hermione's opinions or attitude, it was pretty clearly from the mouth of the author.

 

Has anyone ever explained how there is a "Boy Who Lived" and yet James and Lily are alive? The entire point of the title, completely, is that the "Boy Who Lived" is the only known survivor of the killing curse.

 

If I have to explain to you the difference between saving someone and killing someone then I am gonna stop right here.

While its not ridiculous to want to kill the one who hurts family it is also not completely unreasonable to 'not' kill someone who hurts your family.

EDIT: It seems you also ignored my point regarding wizards conning the muggles.

 

Is it really? Hermione says in PS that some of the greatest wizards don't have an ounce of logic. Yet almost every instance in the books says otherwise. Both Voldemort and Dumbledore were meant to be tactical geniuses, and Grindelwald used Hitler as his pawn. Even the logical puzzle was set by a Wizard. Every great Wizard in canon was shown to have intellect. So I'm really not seeing the Wizards lack logic thing.

If the statement was meant to be of any importance, I'm sure we would have seen much more it in subsequent books. Yet it is never mentioned at all. Plus, it would meant that the Muggleborns would rule the Magical World with their highly logical thinking, which clearly doesn't happen. So I'm really not seeing it here at all.

 

Perhaps the idea was dropped later by her I don't know, but at the time it was definitely meant to be a general rule about the wizarding world. I don't see why you think muggleborns would rule the magical world just because they would be able to think logically though. Clearly people can be in power and control others without logical thinking, if the muggleborns are never even given a chance to control anything by the purebloods how would they really be able to use their logic to an advantage? Any time they might use it as an argument they could just be shot down and told to stop talking bullshit.

 

Those economy problems that you, Miggy27, have with the wizarding world could be easily solved with some laws and bureaucratic restrictions. For example, limit the yearly amount of galleons one can buy with tiny muggle queen portraits or only allow it for muggleborn parents while their child is in school. Given that the pound/galleon ratio would have to be pretty much a fiction due lack of relations, difference in scale of the muggle and magical world and the ease that anyone with magical powers have in making muggle money. If you have trading pounds to galleons be restrictive but everyone is free to do the opposite, it would be in the goblins' best interest to put the ratio between pound and galleon so low.

If anything, a pet peeve of mine is when an author make Harry exploit such an obvious gap. It makes everyone involved look stupid. The Wizarding World for having such obvious, gaping, oozing loophole. Every other muggleborn and half-blood for not noticing it until Smart!Independent!Harry comes along. Harry for feeling clever for the achievement of possessing a modicum of common sense. And the author for thinking that finding a loophole when you only have a tiny fraction of the rule book is an accomplishment.

 

Let me explain-
It is a violation of the Statute of Secrecy, but one that would be difficult to enforce.

Exploiting the Muggle world for wealth generating purposes would be relatively easy given the population disparity between the two worlds, and the fact that policing magic use against muggles is extremely difficult if the individual using the magic is savvy in both the Wizarding and Muggle world.

As far as the reader is concerned, no one has done it. There is no textual evidence to support that it has happened, nor is there a post-Books statement on the subject. The point of that part of my post was to describe a large problem inherent in the both the power structure and financial system in the books. Saying that it (muggle exploitation) could happen and con-artists could be wizards is a less articulate way of saying exactly what I'm trying to say (I get that you are trying to disagree with me, the way you said it was, ironically, more like an agreement from my POV)


They never respond. They don't threaten him, they don't attack him, they do nothing. I was merely saying that if anyone did something like that to my family and there was not enough evidence for the authorities to prosecute the perpetrator , my family would certainly organize a viscous, hopefully deadly, response. I think not doing anything at all about the attack is ludicrous.

You say that Dumbledore is basically a law-abiding citizen. He certainly breaks the law enough that his reasoning for doing or not doing something cannot be caused by his respect for the legal system. Also, you say that he is opposed to killing people. I never said that he was not opposed to killing people.

My point is that he is shown to be both ruthless and extremely forgiving. That combination does not always make sense from my perspective.

If he was willing to sacrifice Harry for the good of the Wizarding World, why shouldn't he be willing to arrange for the death/disappearance of Lucius Malfoy? And don't say that he knew that Harry would survive, as he has apparently been planning for Harry's death before he knew that Voldemort would use Harry's blood in in his resurrection ritual (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what allowed Harry to return after he sacrificed himself?)

Why am I wrong for being annoyed with that decision? It's my own personal preference. It's stupid to allow an influential powerful person multiple opportunities to attack you. Especially when this person is not just attacking allies but endangering the school he loves more than anything.

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I don't think regulation could easily solve the problem. I believe there would have to be a restriction on money/gold flowing from the Muggle economy to the Wizarding one, if there was not, there would be money supply/inflation issues and large inflows/outflows would destabilize their monetary system and their economy. The worlds are considered seperate and do not interact with one and other, and apparently the magical world is superior to the Muggle one, as they can easily control/influence the most powerful members of the Muggle world.The problem is that the wizarding world uses a readily available commodity present in the Muggle world as a currency because of its magical properties. This was not addressed at all, because JKR doesn't think in terms of numbers/finance. The fact that their medium of exchange can be easily obtained in the muggle world by amoral wizards presents a large problem from my point of view...

Regarding the actual topic of this thread:I hate stories that place a large importance on the Monarchy due to multi-generational magical contracts. Also, the idea of royal Wizarding families is stupid. I may be wrong but doesn't Lupin address the fact that there is no wizarding royalty in HBP?

 

The irony here is that I was actually agreeing with you and yet...(sigh)
It is highly likely that wizards do con muggles and probably even get away with it. How it relates to economics I can't really say for I am no expert, but while it is possible for wizards to con money out of muggles I don't see it working as well when they try to turn that currency into wizard gold.
At best they get to live like kings in the muggle world.

I am not gonna address your issues with Dumbledore here, 'cause this isn't the place to discuss canon. I'd suggest you go and check the numerous threads that have already been created on this topic and go through them. I certain you'll find what you're looking for there.

 

There actually is. Rowling said that Grimmauld Place 12 was acquired by some ancestor of the Blacks when he coveted the handsome townhouse and "persuaded" the muggle owner to leave. I believe "persuaded", in this case, stands for "obliveated/confunded/threatened" the muggle. Not outright stated, but implied.

I'm also pretty sure that a lot of Arthur Weasley's line of work involved dealing with transfigured/magically faked items that wizards sold to muggles in order to make a profit. Hey, it could be a good backstory for the animosity between him and Lucius Malfoy; Lucius made a fortune by conning muggles, and Arthur is the only one that works against him.

And yeah, Lucius Malfoy should have gotten stomped by someone long ago.

 

^This is my pet peeve.

STATUTE OF SECRECY

It's not a fucking statue.

"Oh hey! See this sculpture? No you don't, it's a statue of secrecy!"