...are they similar, or completely different?

After having a short argument with another member on the subject, I thought it would be worth knowing your opinions.

I personally think JKR emphasized the similarities between both worlds. The wizards have magic, of course, but their magic doesn't make them think any differently than Muggles. It's not because they're wizards that they'll be wiser or more mature than Muggles, or that they'll make different decisions. Though the problems wizards come across to are always related to magic in one way or another, as are the solutions they come up with, those problems and solutions are the same in spirit than the Muggle ones.

The HP books are peppered with parallelisms between the two worlds. At Hogwarts, first; they have subjects which present an odd similarity with Muggle subjects (Arithmancy, History of Magic, Potions...), games (Wizard Chess, Exploding Snap) which are closely related to their Muggle equivalents, and of course they have Quidditch. "Everyone's crazy about Quidditch, a little like Muggles and football."

The students' behaviour resembles the one of students in the real world -- giggling girls, gossips, and some stereotypes like the bookwormish know-it-all, the Quidditch captain obsessed by the victory of his team, the overprotective older brothers...

There are also parallelisms at the Ministry; the different Levels, the corruption, the bureaucracy... And let's not forget Rita Skeeter, living caricature of unscrupulous journalists.

It seems to me that every detail in that world points at something similar in the Muggle world, minus the magical factor. It's probably one of the reasons the HP books are so popular -- identification to the main characters is easier when they live in a world that's pretty much like ours; and, of course, the transposition of the details of the Muggle life into the Wizarding world are often humourous.

That's for what I think.

Now, many fanfiction authors think differently -- which I perfectly accept, of course, but I don't really understand their point of view. The idea of wizards being centuries behind Muggles is quite popular in fanon, since it conveniently enables the author to make Malfoy marry Ginny/Hermione because of a Marriage Law; or to bind James/Sirius to some pure-blood girl because they're pure-bloods and thus have to marry other pure-bloods (preferably at the age of seventeen ).

However, I see no evidence of the existence of such laws in canon. The pure-blood marriages are more a tradition than anything else, and a tradition anyone can choose not to follow if they don't want to -- Andromeda Black is a good example. Witches are not enslaved by their husbands and house-wifes don't seem to be any more frequent than in the Muggle world. On the same subject, being magic doesn't make you so much more mature that you can recognise true love at sixteen, and decide to marry the girl you love when you're just out of Hogwarts.

Granted, the wizarding society seems quite old-fashioned as far as purity of blood is concerned. But doesn't the Muggle society have the same sort of prejudices? I'm thinking about fancy parties, where you'd better have a particle in your last name, or about some careers you can't hope to accede to if you haven't been to the same school/college as everyone else.

...Opinions?

 

I happen to think that muggles are better off. Wizards are lazy. As someone says "If it aint broke, why fix it?". With that in mind its only natural to think that wizards dont advance technologically anywhere near as fast as muggles. Hell they still use quills and parchment and candles for lighting.

Even in combat they only show basic forms of team or group dynamics. Aurors sling the same spells back and forth never adding spells or basic spells in an innovative way.

Even the legal system is horrid! I mean who gets sent to high security prison WITHOUT a trial? Yet Sirius got tossed in because of rumomrs and one guy yelling something then blowing up a section of a street.

Then we come to classifying magic. Who decides if a charm, ritual, hex, or curse is dark or light? Magic is magic in my opinion, its all about intent. Magic is a tool to be used at the casters will. That philosophy can be said about guns (though thats not relative to the topic at hand).

I do understand the parallels that wizarding and muggle cultures seem to show. My opinion still stands that wizards are a generally lazy, and complacent group of people that need to embrace new idea's rather than shunning them and staying with the 'safe' old ways.

 

Parchments, quills and candles are added for the décor. Also, I can't see why they would bother inventing lamps when they can light or put off a candle with a wave of their wand--much more convenient than a switch. They can use spells on their quills which offer many more possibilities than a regular pen does, so why would they go through the trouble of inventing pens? They have self-correcting ink and quick-quote quills, and in that way, they are more advanced than Muggles--though it's not the Muggles' fault...

But again, I think the main reason why they still have quills and parchment is for the folklore. In some aspects of their lives, they have their own culture.

We don't know that. We never see Aurors fighting in canon.

They were at war. After WWII, there were many hangings and beatings of people who were suspected of collaborating with the Nazis, and without trials. That's not a particularity of wizards, that's human nature. On Sirius' case, Dumbledore himself asserted that he was the Potters' secret keeper, and the Wizengamot didn't need further evidence. People wanted culprits; Sirius was the perfect one. Again, that's human.

They do have new ideas; but their world is magical, so their new ideas are "magical" as well. They invent potions, spells, charms and so on. Progress in the wizarding world is rather analogic to progress in the Muggle world... only, they use magic instead of technology.

 

Well.. I think then authors use that "old law" thing in their stories it usually because they need something to help a plot not because they actually believe it(many of them at least). And IMO Andromeda was disowned because her husband is muggle and wizards don't like muggles (they are racists really its the same as marry a Jew during a SWW being German) not because of some traditions.

As for magic... the problem is that wizards had it all the time. Magic don't need to be always updated like technology for example it's just is. It the same as years ago you just need to think how to use it. They have longer lives, and a big respect for the old things( I get this impression somehow). And IMO seeing as they resemble middle ages I agree with Vendo they really less eager "evolve" then Muggles.
It's easier "to fix" for wizards then for muggles so I think they will be more casual about people health and other things.
In many other ways they mostly alike.

 

"Wizards don't like Muggles..."

*cough* Arthur Weasley *cough*

Seriously, pure-blood wizards are fewer and fewer. They must be, what... 20% of the magical population? The majority of half-bloods and Muggleborns (especially the latter) don't hate Muggles; and not all pure-bloods are that bigoted. Andromeda's a special case, she got disowned because she was born in a bigoted family still clinging to old concepts and ancient traditions. However, such snobbism do exist, even if it's quite limited, and that is another similarity with the Muggle world in my opinion...

And magic IS updated. Kind of. You merely need to think of new ways to use it, I agree; but then I could point out that Muggles merely have to find new ways to use the physical world. That is progress, and wizards know of it (we know the game of Quidditch evolved, cf. Quidditch Through the Ages; we know the Wolfsbane potion is a recent discovery; we know new spells can be made up, but only by powerful wizards...).

About the respect for older things, you have a point. But then, it's a minority of wizards who worship those -- some pure-bloods/Muggle-haters. I know a couple of people with a name that screams Old Nobility, and both are wearing signet rings and are proud of being aristocrats. So, again, that kind of behaviour may be more pronounced in the Wizarding wolrd, but it does have an equivalent in the Muggle one.

The wizards can't possibly be completely isolated from Muggles, for the simple reason a large part of them are Muggleborns or marry Muggles. So, I'd say they can't be really that slower than Muggles. They just have another definition of progress; it's not the same, but it's analogous.

However, what you say about them being more careless about health is interesting... and very true. Wizards are different from Muggles for that particular point: magic can help them solve a lot of problems Muggles cannot deal with. But in compensation, it also leads to others problems, harder to solve even with magic... Magical injuries and illnesses ('dragon pox'?), for example.

So those two worlds would be entwined... yet not mixeable... parallel, but completely distinct... Mmh... Interesting...

*walks away mumbling inaudible bits of sentences under her breath*

 

Yes.. I think i read to many crappy Indy!Harry fics recently because then i begin to think of wizards words heir, fortune and bloodline pop up in my head.
But still Artur Weasly is a weird wizard I think that It was said somewhere in books that he lacks wizarding pride (or was it fanon again? if it was ignore me). But in short i get an impression that wizards biased towards muggles Like Hagrid saying that he should be send to muggles, Ron’s comics and ets.

I don't argue magic is updated, but I still think it's quite slower then Muggle technology. Maybe it's just me but really magic a lacking downsides of technology it don't spoil the world around it can create out of the thin air...
It's not all powerful of course but the possibilities are tremendous(?) I think that if they were like muggles, who use almost everything within reach and still looking for new, they would have done much more...

And i thought a bit about maturing... wizards seems to have much personal power.. if you know that i mean, they for example can invade each others minds, they have weapon with then all the time and etc. And many beings around them don't have this power (muggles) or have less of it. I think it might be tempting to misuse it somehow. And they say "power is responsibility"... Grrr.. I don't know how to explain my thoughts with my pitiful knowledge of English, but I think you got it..sorry.

 

I'm not entirely sure how to reply.but here goes; I think my point was that Wizards and Muggles are different, just from their thinking. Muggles are logical. They invent things to make their life easy. Wizards can just do say something, and boom! stonehenge is built. Wizards and Muggles look at problems differently.

Maturity:

Now we have to isolate harry and his gang from the rest of the magical population. Why? Because Harry has faced death in the face on a number of occasions and come out alive and has dealt with it. the group at DoM, also are included. Now that Extrudes maturity, I don't think i could of defended myself from muggle crooks for any amount of time in a simiilar situation, I probably would of turned up dead or badly injured. Harry and the five others came out of it alive and dealt with what they saw there. So something like a broken heart doesn't seem as bad as getting nearly killed. It's just a lack of stimuli.

Harry like or not is different from any other teenager in the magical world. He was mistreated as a child and is worship/leered at in the wizarding world, he is famous for something he doesn't even remember. Unfortuately he grew up really quickly. unlike his peers.

Now for people like Lavendar and Parvati or seamus or dean the opposite is true. They are very like muggles in their maturity.



Technology.

You would think some of those muggle born would of brought normal pens with them? Unless you have quills that are enchanted to never run out of ink, Pens are a superior writing utensil for everyday use.

Lights:
Electrictiy doesn't work due to magic. That's explained early on.

 

Wizards are logical. They invent new spells, and made other spells that help the normal family. Quill spells, and spell's to help clean.

What is your point? All you say is Harry is mature, big fucking deal, what's your point. You're trying to show Muggles and Wizards are different, and you say the whole Wizarding World minus Harry and his friends are have Muggle maturity. Yet, Muggle's are logical. So, everyone but Harry is logical?

Pens aren't superior. There are quills with never-ending ink. And oh, like maybe some muggle b0rn w0uld have l!ke brught a bag like!!!oneoneelevengja!i'madouche!! Wizards also have bags that never fill up, quills that can changing ink, flashing ink, ink that talks etc.

I personally think that Tinn hit the God damn nail on the God damn head.

 

It was an argument about potter's maturity. I still say that wizarding world is different for the sole reason of having magic. Doesn't mean they can't coexist and have very similar properties.

 

No shit Sherlock, but what is your fucking point about his maturity. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything.

 

It's actually got something to do with the discussion i was having with tinn, about magical marriage and the like, which inturn brought up maturity.

One of the reasons the thread breathes.

 

Yes, in another thread. Oh, guess what, this aint the same thread. This is about the Magical and Muggle World, not if Harry Potter is mature.

I know this is repetitive, but your whole argument consists around the fact that your post is about another thread. Well, this is not the same thread, so, post something worthy.

 

I agree with Tinn Tam about the similarities. If you want to see a world with magic that's completely different from the muggle world, go read Dragonlance or the dozens of other fantasy novels out there with magic. Harry Potter's universe's differences don't compare at all to the differences between those novels and our world.

 

It's not the magic they're missing. They just don't have enough liberals.

[Corny Joke ]

Anyhow, while Tinn Tam is correct about HP canon, I always liked the idea of Wizards being stuck in a slightly skewed, oligarchial Victorian Age in terms of social structure. But that's just me.

I never really cared for the absolutes J.K. would give us though, like the Ministry is totally useless, Slytherins are all evil, etc etc. It kind of simplifies a society that can be so much more complex and intricate.