No worries, I know you're not, I just wanted to clarify it

 

I'm Kiba. I'll bring up my crumbs when I'm on the desktop shortly.

What bothers me about your DayEnd yesterDay, Citrus, was the sudden suggestion that Sarutobi target Kiba. That not only wastes Sarutobi's ability to counter and kill Guren when NK'd(but not Tobi once Tobi has gone immune) but it kills Kiba as well by piercing protection, meaning in a five player world right then, Guren/Tobi win's when they kill N5.

Atum's claim is also bugging me. He says that it would have been a mistake to have Judge!Lynched him D3 but he could have a. taken out a Scummy player he suspected in turn, and b. been free to pursuit whatever RL crap has been holding him back from posting regularly the past few Day's.

Typhon, have you crumbed? How does Sai's ability work - are you given a countdown in-QT by HF ala 0/2 mislynchs; 1/2 mislynchs? Were Math/Q/Snow mislynchs or not?

 

That was my bad, I didn't realize Kiba gets pierced by Sarutobi until it was mentioned by Typhon today

---------- Post automerged at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

Right. This is the part where we try to match roles with players and see if there's an obvious liar today. Typhon and Zenzao, I want to see crumbs from both of you at your next available opportunity.

Working on this elsewhere but posting the base part here for now:

Ino
Kiba
Sai
Sakura
Chouji

Titus - Tsunade
The Waco Kid - Naruto
TMNTurtwig - Danzo
Pozzai - Hinata
Jan - Jiraiya

Citrus - Neji
Zenzao - Kiba
Atum - Sarutobi
Typhon - Sai
Newcomb - Ino/Chouji

Town A - Q / Snowvon

Scum 1 Rubicon
Scum 2 Mathblade
Scum 3 Kalas
Scum 4 - ?

Tobi - ?

fontisian died Night 1
Banks died Night 2

Fontisian and Banks unaccounted for. 1 of Snowvon and Q is town.

If we strongly believe one player is group!scum vs. another being Tobi, we lynch group!scum first.

Whoaaaa wait I think this is solvable without doing all the work one second

---------- Post automerged at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

Zenzao, you have not lost your vest, correct?

---------- Post automerged at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------
Zenzao

So you see this post specifically because it's important.

Have you lost your vest or not?

 

Go on.

Pulling my crumbs now.

---------- Post automerged at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:40 ----------

I have not. Akamaru is still alive.

 

Wonderful. Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we're in autowin

---------- Post automerged at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Clarification his fluffiness: Tobi can gain immunity from all night kills and vigilante kills. Sarutobi bypasses all protection.

Does Tobi's vigilante immunity mean from Sai? So a Sarutobi kill on a Tobi player ALWAYS goes through regardless of immunity or not?

---------- Post automerged at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

Right. Watch this mechanical magic.

We lynch Typhon today. Tonight Atum points at Zenzao. I use my Kaiten. If we reach tomorrow, we lynch Atum with him aimed at Zenzao

World 1: Typhon is scum OR Tobi
We win

World 2: Zenzao is scum
Zenzao loses tomorrow when Atum hits him with Sarutobi
We win

World 3: Zenzao is Tobi
Nothing happens overnight. Same deal with Atum knocking him out tomorrow
We win

World 4: Atum is Tobi
We lynch him tomorrow and he loses. There was a night kill last night meaning Tobi has used his shot (irrelevant though since I can bounce it and Zenzao can survive it)
We win

World 5: Atum is scum
Zenzao is immune, I can bounce, he loses tomorrow
We win

---------- Post automerged at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

This is the part where you guys check the logic and make sure I didn't fuck up anywhere on the above

---------- Post automerged at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

Need to evaluate for worst case worlds still - Tobi AND group!scum alive

In this world, Tobi has not used his shot yet.

World A: Zenzao Tobi Typhon scum
We lynch Typhon. Zenzao cannot hit either me or Atum. Lynch Atum into Zenzao for the win.

World B: Zenzao scum, Typhon Tobi
We lynch Typhon. If Atum dies Zenzao goes down, else he does when we lynch Atum tmrw

World C: Zenzao Tobi, Atum scum
We lose if we lynch Typhon.
If we lynch Atum, Zenzao shoots Typhon. If we lynch Zenzao, Atum shoots Typhon.
Autoloss

World D: Zenzao scum, Atum Tobi
We lose if we lynch Typhon
If we lynch Zenzao, Atum shoots Typhon. If we lynch Atum, Zenzao shoots Typhon.
Autoloss

World E: Typhon Tobi, Atum scum
Typhon is lynched, Atum can't do anything and we lynch him tomorrow

World F: Typhon scum, Atum Tobi
Typhon is lynched, Atum can't do anything and we lynch him tomorrow

I seriously doubt we're in a world with Tobi AND a group!scum alive though. Kalas really felt like his team was fucked. Regardless, usually in final 4 if Tobi and group!scum were alive we'd be fucked anyways but thankfully we're not due to role shenanigans.

Worlds C and D are autoloss no matter what we do.
Worlds A/B/E/F, we still win by going with the plan of:

1) Lynch Typhon
2) Atum points at Zenzao
3) If day starts we lynch Atum with him pointed at Zenzao

---------- Post automerged at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

Clarifier: Tobi has not used his shot in the lettered worlds because there was 1 night kill last night and those worlds have a group!scum alive, meaning a shot went off.

Man I was kinda bummed when I got one of the least interactive roles in the game, but turns out it's real strength comes from making it to the end of the game.

Also disappointed I couldn't be forced into claiming earlier, I really really wanted to bounce a soup attempt (yes, if I use Kaiten I cause scum to soup THEMSELVES as Neji). I already had the image ready in my QT, I was going to post this if it happened after day start:

http://i.lvme.me/v7g6u9t.jpg

---------- Post automerged at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

Also further clarifications:

1) Sarutobi usually occurs as a separate phase outside the day / night when Sarutobi died. So it can't be role blocked or redirected etc.

2) If Guren tries to role block me (Neji), he role blocks himself. If he role blocks Zenzao (Kai), doesn't do shit to his vest. No effect if he role blocks Atum (Sarutobi).

---------- Post automerged at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

Can Sarutobi be role blocked? Can Sarutobi's kill be redirected by Guren?


Whoops, those should be colored just in case

---------- Post automerged at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------
Zenzao Typhon Atum

*continues twiddle thumbs*

 

My original crumb(which was also the broadest IMO) has been found and I'm digging through my posts for the smaller crumbs. I'll look over your scenarios in a bit. Here's what I've found so far.

Crumb 1#637. Second response to Math in this post. At this point I hadn't asked HF if I was poison-immune so long as Akamaru was still alive and regretted posting this in-thread as soon as I had, but no one raised any response aside from Math saying that she had no idea who any of the people were that I had referenced.

---------- Post automerged at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

Found the next couple. #1258, #1268.

If you don't see it, go Here and read this quote,

---------- Post automerged at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------

#2029 Callback to my original crumb.

---------- Post automerged at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:25 ----------

#2451. Bottom of post. Also, non-crumb related but take note in the quote from Math there, as she pushes for Citrus lynch over Atum or Kalas.

 

Meh I'm bored waiting on you guys (Zenzao need to read my world building sometime when you want to take a break from posting crumbs. And good crumbs by the way, I'm also pretty shocked noone caught your first posts' unless scum thought it was fake or something)

---------- Post automerged at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

Kiba
Sai

Titus - Tsunade
The Waco Kid - Naruto
TMNTurtwig - Danzo
Pozzai - Hinata
Jan - Jiraiya

Citrus - Neji
Zenzao - Kiba
Atum - Sarutobi
Typhon - Sai
Newcomb - Chouji
Banks - Ino / Sakura
Fontisian - Sakura / Ino

Town A - Q / Snowvon

Scum 1 Rubicon
Scum 2 Mathblade
Scum 3 Kalas
Scum 4 - ?

Tobi - ?

Fontisian or Banks is Sakura. Probably Fontisian since only Pozzai got poison-protection and the claim stuff happened D2, unless Guren roleblocked Banks while they killed him?

Most likely Fontisian or Banks is Ino as well, because Snowvon would have proved his role as Ino via slugs, as would Q.

This locks Fontisian and Banks in as Ino/Sakura.

So it's dependent on Snowvon being Kiba or Sai. Also Snowvon, this is part of why I asked you to claim when the day was about to end when I checked in on my phone, if you had claimed it would've forced a CC today. But I guess that could have been a -EV play there, maybe someone in Obs will have yelled at me for saying that or something.

 

Had to stay late, just now headed to a comp. Will be able to really look at everything in about 15 minutes.

Haven't really analyzed your scenarios Citrus, but it seems a great deal like you, ya know, are assuming that we all automatically take your word for being Neji. There are a lot of dead players that are unmatched... way too many to assume that you are what you say you are, fancy crumbs or no.

If we follow that plan and you're Tobi/scum, you are quite conveniently the last man standing. I can accept conf!town Atum, but absolutely not conf!town Citrus.

 

Ninja'd with everyone accounted for thanks.

Very glad you tried to argue against my plan by the way. Because it's pretty indicative you're the last scum. Why? Because rather than be happy about the parts that also account for Zenzao/Atum scum, you're arguing against it as a whole.

If you're town and I'm town, that plan is autowin. If you're scum, it's autoloss for you. Rather than even consider the we're both town angle, you immediately try to point at me as scum to circumvent the mechanical autowin. Because that's all you can do against a mechanical autowin for town.

 

So, if I follow your logic, I should be happy to die on faith that a mechanical plan that accounts for every possible scenario except for one where the person who proposes it is scum himself?

In other words, there is a 50 percent chance that you're scum. To accept your plan is to flip a coin on the game. That is not acceptable, and you should know better than trying to spin that.

 

What do you think I am?

 

Just interjecting right here, but for apparently being able to hypothesize like this, your earlier mechanical screw ups do not invite a good deal of faith. Particularly the Sarutobi > Kiba=autolose scenario at yesterDay's DayEnd.

Okay, going forward.

We lynch Typhon(probable Scum, game should end right then and there according to WH11). Game goes into N6 if Typhon is town. Atum(or you) NK; doesn't hit me, in Sarutobi!Atum world Atum should be locked onto you, in Scum/Tobi!Atum world's he can't get a kill through and we lynch him Tomorrow.

W1 is what I feel the case is, particularly Scum(I still believe Q was Tobi). W2 is false. W3 is false, but you and Atum should lynch in this situation rather than lynch Atum for the DOB target.

Agreed. But I don't see either as likely right now without double-checking the NK's.

Not really? Pretty sure Tobi was said to be immune to Sarutobi's kill(need to double check), so why not lynch Tobi!Zenzao here? You've raised a couple of more worrisome points like this in addition to all of the rest, mate. I'd call them inconsistencies.

Again with using Sarutobi. You're quite anxious to be the last man standing.

Indeed we autoloss in WC/WD.

Uh, are you sure about WE and Scum!Atum cannot NK you, thereby 1|1ing the gamestate and winning?

I agree that it's not likely both Guren and Tobi are still alive. I've said my thoughts on 1)2)3) already and I find it inconsistent.

Pausing here. HF confirms several things I asked him about mechanical issues.

I believe you've been fully cleared at this point. That means the last lynch is in one of Atum|Typhon, and I believe it's Typhon.

Proven true in QT inquiries.

I'd like to know the second, too.

---------- Post automerged at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

EBWOP: At the 'pausing here' line I refreshed my QT to see if HF had answered since I started looking at your scenarios, Citrus. He had at that point, which is why the tone shift from doubting to trusting you took place.

---------- Post automerged at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Thanks. I also avoided directly quoting the line that you or Snow said about my behaving like a mad dog more recently, and in general the remainder of my crumbs are using the term "foaming at the mouth" in reference to Math and such the past couple of Days.

Snow or Q were Sai, with the other being Tobi IMO. Everything else seems to check out but for the like about Snow/Q proving their roles via slugs? I don't get this. New was the only one that Titus slugged.

---------- Post automerged at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

EBWOP: *line, not like.

 

Ino has the ability to target a living player at night and copy their ability next night.

Tsunade was out in the open.

Ino targets Titus/Tsunade N1 and gets slug ability.

Ino uses slug ability N2 on a townfirm. Even if townfirm dies later, they can leave a crumb that Ino can reveal to show that they slugged the townfirm N2.

This didn't happen this game, thus Ino was dead before N2 ended (Banks or Fontisian)

It's all based FROM Ino rather than FROM Tsunade for realizing Ino was dead

---------- Post automerged at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------

I can't get night killed tonight, or whoever targets me kills themselves because of my Kaiten.

---------- Post automerged at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

I'm still pretty sure Snowvon was town, and Q was scum, but that doesn't really matter that much

 

Alright that makes sense. And so does the NK immunity, so good. When do we want to start voting?

 

I wanna hear Atum's thoughts first, also because it's most likely Typhon's the final scum (or Tobi I guess?) and I prefer more town eyes checking I didn't make any mistakes

---------- Post automerged at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

Actually

Vote: Typhon


It takes 3 votes to lynch, so Atum basically has hammer if we both vote. If he's happy with it all he can just vote at will

 

In reference to Sai's character/interactions with people.

More of that.

More of that.

There's a bit more buried in my walls, but it's almost all in that vein. Other than that, if you look back at my first posts of the day, you'll see that I left wiggle room for the consideration of town!Math and never mentioned it again after Q. That was a theme with all lynches, because I always wanted to be in a position where I could push for town to understand that there were mislynches going on without flat-out revealing my role.

If you guys are going to lynch me, lynch me. That's fine. Just make damn sure you don't literally hand the game over to Tobi/Citrus. Atum, you need to insist on lynching him tomorrow, and aiming at Zenzao. You should be one of the final 2, because town literally can't do less than tie in that scenario.

 

Can you explain your thought progression here? You went from "damn he's town" to "that seems unfair because it proved he's town" to "he's scum guys"

Where the plan I proposed that has you lynched today falls in-between the "unfair" and "he's scum" pieces

---------- Post automerged at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 PM ----------

Pinging Atum so he can give his thoughts

 

Now why do you say that Atum should aim at me? And I'm sorry but I'm not buying your ambiguity toward things. Point out all your instances of supposed crumbing. Make a final case against Citrus if you think he's Tobi, since you were fairly adamant that Q was Tobi previously. Sounds a little like you're singing to Kalas' tune.

 

Gotta be honest, I just got the ever-loving shit kicked out of me in a sparring session, so I'm basically still seeing stars right now. I'll try to read over everything in a few hours, but Citrus, I took one look at your mechanics post and almost had a migraine trying to think through it.

 

Is it time to play a certain Philadelphia theme song?

But seriously, you alright?