Sorry Newcomb, I wanted to respond , but friends kept buging me whenever i had time to tab back in. Doing it now

The reason for me believing that no cop n0 was most likely is that i had a talk some time back, where someone told me that it is the general norm.
In the Narutomafia game I didn't know that, because in the champions games, which i watched right before our game started, a random green for the cop was the norm.
Thats why i made my first post accordingly, only realising later on, during said game, that most cops don't have n0 checks, and those championchips games are the exeption.



Moving on..

Lets talk about Scott!

Gz, you gave basically the same answer Newcomb prepared beforehand. If you had given it without Newcombs interference I would have townread you for it. Now it looks like you being a parrot, and I got nothing out of my question.

A. I enganged you because you didnt answer me beforehand.
B. Hell Yeah, I see you as easier prey. Last game Newcomb got conf!town d1 because of the way he played as a new player.
If me talking to you early on gives town a similar feel on you, that would be awesome. If you are scum and break after a single harmless question, it is even better.


Newcomb your game is so completly different this time around compared to last time.
Right in the middle, offensive, ballsy.

Which would be fine, if you were inquisitive.
You call Citrus scum and say that you are tunneling on him, while not asking a single real question?
What is your goal there?

 

I wish blab had done something in addition to joking with me. But he has only one post so I'll move my vote.

Unvote
Vote Seratin

What did Citrus' reaction tell you, Seratin?

I agree that Vira's list may have popped up a bit too early, but. I also like her townreads, so. Eh.

Because I like my alignment. I also like my role. I also like this playerbase. I like a lot of things right now.

Yesss. Deny the Waco.

Right now I'm feeling something like:

Snowvon
weiyaoli
Zenzao
Jan
Newcomb
Citrus
Vira
His fluffiness
Rubicon
blab
Scott Press
Seratin

 

Von, honey, care to explain the weiyaoli read?

I kind of agree with Zenzao. He seems to be similar to last game, but I'll wait to see more of him before i feel certain.

 

Sure.

/ten

---------- Post automerged at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Wow, I didn't even know Zenzao moved his vote.

Pick a different color.

---------- Post automerged at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------

For the record, I thought this was a little over the top.

 

Jan, can you explain your colours for Scott and Newcomb? Do they have any meaning?

I'm not really a fan of these "reaction testing" one liners from Jan and Seratin. Especially wrt Seratin who says they are trying to bait out a strong reaction, and then immediately answers the very first question aimed at him regarding that line.

Seratin, what do you think of Rubicon's and Citrus's responses?

 

Re-read / reset thoughts:

I think this comes from a town mindset, where you're looking at how players react and trying to find inconsistency. Especially that last sentence Thin, though.

Zenzao, I'm still null on. The aggressive backpush "feels" genuine but that's not something I can back up at all, so I'm leaving Z as null.

"Please tell me how I can get you to read me town" I'm not scumreading Scott yet, but this pinged me.

This also pinged me as "fishing for a mislynch". I feel like if HF had something to say about Blab's post, he'd have said it, rather than just bringing up some vague concerns. However, I also read HF's response to Citrus's question as pretty good - I mean that's how I would have responded.

That's pretty much where I am with blab, and I'm inclined to give him town points for that post.

Scott, is this your first game on DLP, or your first game period?

Vira's readwall doesn't really do anything for me. It reads like an attempt to look like you're doing something when you're not. Like, when you put a green on someone with the reasoning: "Wei: asking questions, pretty towny," the content of that read is basically air. Like, I'm pretty much on the same page with Wei, but it's super thin and there's no way I'd make a readwall based on that. That said, I didn't like the readwall but I don't have an "only scum would post like that" vibe from it.

Because a player's name bolded, colored, and on a separate line is a vote?

I'm getting there. I don't want to ask questions just to ask them, which is what I'd be doing. And I'm not necessarily calling Citrus scum - I'm saying he's either strong scum or strong town, and it's confusing me. I'm trying to work out how I feel about him, failing, and shifting gears to looking at other people.

And the questions that I am asking have helped. Like, I pressed you on the cop thing, and this...

... has brought me insight into your thought process. I didn't get much alignment out of it, as I could see that kind of statement from both sides, but hopefully it's building a foundation where I can understand you better in the future.

You were definitely someone I kind of failed on in Narutomafia - I felt really unsure of you all game, and while that last minute turbo of scum!Snowvon basically saved the game, it was heart-wrenching because I didn't really trust you, I just didn't not trust you, if that makes any sense. The more transparent I can make you, the better I'll be able to feel about my read on you. (Which by the way is slight town.)

 

But it looks so naked without a verb.

 

I was being dramatic because I felt like it.
Citrus: (Almost) All scum are at some point ninja's but not all ninja's are scum. Duh.
I know this was important for you to know, and I don't judge you for it.

Ouch. Are you a master-manipulator or something? I'll be the very picture of conciseness.

Say you have openly townread a player for a post in the last game. Now that player does the same thing again. What do you think?
Seratin:
I have the exact opposite impression.
I actually think that scum have less constructive conversations with each other, and prefer them to have them with townies to convince them of their townieness.
Imo. Scum usually try to have there conversations in random sprinkles during the game (and by that I mean totally not random at all)
(though I don't really understand what playing off of each other exactly means here)
Can you give an example of scum's playing off of each other?

Snowvon: I was only half-joking. You can answer the question, you know? Did you do it on purpose, voting for me when I townread you for it?

Not feeling this Citrus/newcomb thing

Vote: Vira

 

Honestly, I forgot that interaction, but I'm happy you remembered it!

 

Snowvon is right.
If you don't use "vote:" or something it looks like a fancy heading.

 

I think if you do, it looks messy, and the name by itself has a certain simplicity and elegance, and oh my god why are we talking about this?

 

For now we are early on and the colours are mostly an indication so ppl can see who I am talking about at first glance.

Whenever my reads feel a bit more certain the colours will most likely represent my feelings for them.



Newcomb, last game I wanted to be in the middle of things and not overly townread.
Because the goal would have been going into lategame, and conf!town dont go lategame. (lategame was my roles only realpower).

 

Depending on the amount of games and style of games people have played in the past everyone has a different opinion on how PRs should be played. That's not even mentioning why different PRs tend to be played differently. Drawing attention to hypothetical roles this early in the game is pretty impossible as nobody (as far as I can tell) has even hinted towards possible roles.

Feels an awful lot like he's uncomfortable with the amount of attention he's getting and with that reaction, tried to shift some on to me.

Rubicon's reaction was more measured and what he said was just good mafia observation. Can't get a read from that.

Newcomb is flailing around a bit but he's taking the time to read and re-read posts, coming up with new angles. Feels like if he was scum he could sit around and wait for a mislynch while providing a gentle prod.

 

It was the way it came off to me. Here’s what you said:

You say it’s a good point twice and give an excuse. It’s comes off as rambling, slightly nervous.

This paragraph is all over the place. What it boils down to is: “I dunno.” You’re undermining your own scumread as if setting up an excuse if Citrus is lynched and revealed as town.

You’re not an extremely new player, you’ve played before. People have their playing styles, getting reactions from people is a way to hunt for scum. If you want to take all the gambits out of play, we might as well role reveal right now.

This quote seems like you’re fishing for roles and want to know how to detect them.

I need to get my thoughts in order, otherwise I’d lose track of the thread with how quickly it’s going.

It seems to be a habit. Sorry.

I thought there was a rule in not giving each other coded messages that only the other would know? I don’t know if this is a joke or not, but I don’t get it.

This is vague reasoning. I don’t get what you’re going for.

You and Citrus sending heartfelt, in-thread messages to each other is so cutesy it makes me sick. It’s not particularly scummy, but it’s weird.

One thousand times this.

You didn’t even mention me.

 

I'm having real trouble parsing your questions. To the first one, absolutely not. I think if town is open, honest, transparent, and posts a lot, that creates a very hostile environment for scum. I feel like if town is cagey, runs gambits, and jumps around "looking for reactions," you're doing more harm than good by confusing town and letting wolves blend in even if you personally end up with some reads.

To the second question... I don't quite get what you're asking. Am I openly townreading the player for their post in the last game in that last game, or in this game?

In general I don't like hypotheticals (which is why I didn't like Citrus's question to HF) because they lack context. Ask me something specific. Like, if you're asking, "are you aware that if you tell people what their town tells are, they'll do them as scum and fool you?" then... yes? But it's so heavily dependent upon context. Town aren't town for the content of their posts, but from the mindset behind them.

---------- Post automerged at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

No, it comes off as apologetic because that's what it was - I made a mistake jumping in and I stopped Jan from getting a decent read on Scott. I fucked up and I owned up to it, but I wanted to let Jan know that it was coming from a good-intentioned place.

I thought I was rather clear where I stood with Citrus, at least to the degree to which I'm confused by him. I think it's a very good thing to consider all possible worlds like 5 hours into the game. I see a world where Citrus is scum and made a mistake and pivoted off it rather smoothly, and I also see a world where Citrus is town, saw something he thought was very telling about one of my posts, and chose not to shine a spotlight on it for strategic reasons.

On the other hand, I thought your push against me was kinda towny at first, but in this post you're coming off as trying to find reasons to paint me as scummy rather than you're actually involved and curious about trying to figure out my alignment. Like, trying to split hairs with "extremely new player" and "has literally played one game before, so not technically new". That's... not great.

 

Ah, thank you.

Rubicon, you should always keep an eye on me. You should be roving the rest of the playerlist rapidly with your other eye to compensate though.

Snowvon, why do you have Vira as bright green?

I strongly disagree with this. That is how role-reading comes into play, and it's usually pretty anti-town/pro-scum when scum get kills off on PR's rather than non-PR's. That's kinda how balance goes.

Vira, fair enough, but know that you've now set a precedent for periodic read-walls from you and I expect you to keep up with them.

Now for the real meat of this post...

Vote: His Fluffiness

Here's where you fucked up. First I'll address the stuff directed at me.

I like to make lists of unaligned pairs as games go on. Asking random questions helps a lot with this, because forcing players to speak about other players can give away unaligned pairs or lack thereof, and it forces them to engage with players they may not have at that stage in the game. Thus, I decided to throw a few players together that you've played with before and see how you answer the question. Ex: Snowvon, Rubicon, and not sure if you've played with Blab but I threw him in too. I was expecting either a response, an out-of-the-box response (C instead of A/B), or an avoidal of the question.

Now, on to you.

Your initial response of C looks good to me, because it is a fairly random/weird question. HOWEVER, you proceeded to attack me for my innocuous question. When I prompted you again to force you to make a response, not only did you NOT answer the question, you strengthened your attack and voted me.

Thus, my conclusions are that you:

1) Are very defensive this game. I asked an innocuous question, and you interpreted it as an attack. A town player at the very initial posts of the game wouldn't jump to assume they're being attacked from an innocuous question

2) Don't want to answer a question involving Snowvon/Blab/Rubicon. Possible alignment to 1+ of that grouping

3) Want to pre-empt a spotlight on you. All I wanted was your answer (or prompting to explain something confusing, because it was an out of the blue question), but you STILL have not answered the question.

Vote: His Fluffiness

 

I agreed with some of her townreads.

 

If only I had two votes to give, but apparently I wanted to make a Fluffiness-vote-sandwich there

---------- Post automerged at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

Snowvon, the only ones I see are you, Fluffiness, Wei, and Zenzao. Do you agree with all 4 of them?

 

I'm undecided on Fluff.

 

1. I have complained loudly and often about Titus's posting style. Hence your quote being rather cutting.

2.Was supposed to be part of an explanation to help you understand my question to Snowvon, which you said you read twice and didn't understand. But that explanation isn't complete so of course you didn't understand it (I could have sworn that I typed it out, though). Basically Snowvon voted for me in his first post D1 and I townread him for it then. Now he voted for me first post again.
Snowvon answer was that he had forgotten that interaction, so yeah.