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Making Harry Powerful Yet Plausible

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Rayndeon, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. Rayndeon

    Rayndeon Professor

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    A lot of readers like a powerful Harry Potter. They want a Harry that can stand on his own two feet and through his own resources stand up against his foes.

    Nonetheless, while I like reading about a powerful Harry Potter, there can be too much of a good thing, when Harry Potter's powers are proverbially wanked to unrealistic extremes. Multiple magical animagi forms, suddenly having wandless magic on the level of Dumbledore, etc. Harry Potter must be powerful yet plausible.

    One of the best fics to explore such a Harry Potter is probably Ectomancer, (shame it's abandoned!) where Harry's suite of skills and powers feel like a plausible extrapolation of canon and highlights Harry's canonical qualities, such as his ability to think and perform under pressure and being surprisingly cunning when his foes least expect it.

    So, what are some canonically plausible ways of 'amping up' Harry Potter? Some suggestions, let me know what you think.

    1. Harry being a Horcrux not only allows him to speak Parseltongue, but he finds that he has a natural affinity for the Dark Arts -- he excels at Defense because he excels in casting hexes, jinxes, and curses over almost any other kind of magic and he finds the Dark Arts to be almost disturbingly easy for him.

    2. Harry isn't the kind of person -- canonically -- that goes out and tries out every kind of magic willy-nilly like Hermione might. However, Harry proves capable of learning difficult magic in a hurry -- like the Patronus Charm -- as the need demands it. Authors can exploit this tendency to explain Harry's growing proficiency with defensive magic, among other kinds. (For example, Harry might find he needs to learn the Disillusionment Charm since he can't always rely on his cloak...)

    3. Harry's time as a Seeker has given him superb hand-eye coordination and reflexes -- qualities that are essential to any magical combatant and which Harry uses to give him an edge against older, more experienced combatants.

    4. This one's a little more out there, but it's an angle I haven't really seen explored yet. As Dumbledore said towards the tail end of DH, when Voldemort and Harry dueled at the graveyard and their twin wands connected, Harry's holly wand absorbed some of the qualities of Voldemort's wand -- and consequently, it passively obtained some of Voldemort's own power and skill. When used against Voldemort in particular, it became enormously powerful against him, allowing Harry to effectively match Voldemort despite the difference in skill and experience. That's why we saw it spit gold flames and what not when Harry was escaping Voldemort with the decoys.

    One might try to pursue this angle by having Harry become aware of the properties of his empowered wand by briefly dueling and matching Voldemort -- to the surprise of both Harry and Voldemort -- at the Ministry Atrium at the end of the Order of the Phoenix. Then, over time, just as much the wand is attuned against Voldemort and uses his own power and skill against Voldemort, Harry starts to become more attuned to his wand, learning to exploit its powers against Voldemort and in addition, learn how use its powers more generally, giving Harry a route to obtaining some of Voldemort's own skill.
     
  2. Trig

    Trig Unspeakable

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    Your account is from 2008, so I'm assuming you're actually serious.

    These ideas are terrible.

    1. Natural abilities are a cop-out, they are an excuse to make someone good at something without doing the work required for it.

    2. He's proven that he's capable of learning or performing difficult magic. That's not just true for a handful of complicated spells. He can succeed if he tries. Applying that to only a few select spells makes no sense.

    3. Oh yes, he's certainly the first seeker ever. And the best seeker ever. He's such a good seeker that it transcends his abilities and reactions beyond those of people who have decades of experience in magic.

    4. Some of the caster's powers are stored in their wands? And can be transferred via Priori Incantato? What? That's just an utterly poor way to grant Harry a shitty power-up. Plus, reliance on a tool is just short-sighted. Tools can break.

    You want a powerful Harry? Make him work for his power. Make him earn it. No innate bullshit, no genetic advantage, no magical power-up. You can over time raise his powers until they are unrealistically high, as long as you empower his opposition to an equal level to maintain the tension and suspense. Upper limits are unnecessary as long as that counts for everyone.

    You could theoretically have Harry travel to another planet and blow up earth from halfway across the galaxy, as long as Voldemort is equally as capable. It'd be ludicrous, of course, but it would probably work if it's done well and deliberately.

    Read The Dresden Files. The main character undergoes a fantastic development and his powerlevel continuously goes up and up, but Jim Butcher always manages to place him in grave peril. There's always someone stronger. He could fail at any time. That's what makes all the difference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  3. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    1) "The Dark Arts" are a broad category. There's nothing inherently dark about speaking to snakes, it's just been associated with a lot of evil people over the years. As such, I'm not exactly sure what the connection is between having a Horcrux and having an affinity to Dark Arts. Voldemort doesn't have a "natural" affinity, he's 70 years old and has years and years of experience with hunting and killing people. It's part of his upbringing and mindset. So, Harry gaining powers with his Horcrux doesn't really make sense, not to mention it is actually quite cliche. I would avoid that at all costs.

    2) Harry's ability to learn difficult magic. I wouldn't say Harry learned the Patronus Charm quickly. Quite the opposite - it took him months, if I recall. That just shows that extremely difficult magic can be learnt, if you spend enough time practicing. That's a fair enough jumping point to start learning the heavy shit, but there's nothing to say that Harry's a quick study, though I see that quite often.

    3) Sure. But, I'm not convinced that being a Seeker would give him better coordination, then lets say, a Chaser, who has to accurate catch and pass a quaffle dozens of times a match, and his to throw the ball through a hoop that is being guarded. Often times, all this is at high speed too. I'm not sure how any of this really relevent, since it seems like actual spell practice would be, you know, more relevant.

    4) I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Just seems like you want to give Harry an arbitrary gimmick to make him more powerful? I'm not even sure what that means - if we're talking about his wand suddenly giving him the ability to cast spells he's never learned before, it would be funny as a crackfic where it's just spouting shit out at random, but for a serious fic, it's seems too contrived.


    Ultimately, powering up Harry rarely serves a purpose. He defeats Voldemort in canon with what he has, which admittedly, is mostly luck. So, if you power Harry up, you have to power up his enemies. That's fine, we've all seen how amazing it can be in fics like the Denarian Trilogy. But you've always got to remember, Voldemort has 50 years on Harry, and Dumbledore has 90. You've got to be very careful with how you handle the powerboost without making it seem gimmicky - voldemort and dumbledore both earned their power the hard way, through blood, tears, and the sacrifice.
     
  4. Red Aviary

    Red Aviary Hogdorinclawpuff ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    So's mine. So are a lot of people's. And a lot are from before that too. What's your point?

    I think this is a good list for ways to give Harry more of an edge in some way, even if it's only a slight one, using things that are already established in some way in the books. Better than random OC bullshit like getting powers from angels or Zordon or whatever at least. And at least some of them could be used for post-DH Harry too.
     
  5. DerHesse

    DerHesse Unspeakable

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    This.

    On the Way to Greatness does it perfectly. He's partnered with Neville in Potions so he has to make extra shifts to get good enough.

    You just have to find the right motivation, which suits the tone of the story and make Harry work from there.

    Personally, I would love to see Harry trying to make his parents proud after he saw them in the mirror in first year. Everybody tells him what great people they were and how they fought evil to protect him and now that he saw them, he feels that he doesn't live up to their sacrifice. It would be enough motivation to get him to the level of the Marauders without making the story dark.
     
  6. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    For the most part, I agree with this. There are some things that can be done, however. Certain people have innate abilities over others. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it is not the be-all-end-all of his power. I have Harry being a powerful magic user in my story, but he is very sloppy and has to learn how to use his magic correctly. SO, there's something innate, but he also takes 9 months of focused (almost bootcamp type) training before he can use it properly.

    And, for the most part, I also agree with you on powerups. Although, they once again can be incorporated to help. Especially if you twist them. For instance, I used the Horcrux. Harry used a very dark spell to bring the HOrcrux under his power and gain Voldemort's knowledge of the Dark Arts. Yet, in the middle of a battle later on, he forgets the release move of a certain cast, and is just about killed. Turns out, there's holes in the knowledge the Horcrux had, which makes the "powerup" untrustworthy. Then, he also learns in another battle that powerup is not the same as experience, and is almost killed again.

    I do disagree, though. He needs limits. They all do, otherwise, you're getting into Over 9000 territory, which kills immersion.

    I think his point was that these kinds of posts are usually from those who have been here a short while and as such, the posts are really that thought out and often trollish, or lately, reposts from reddit. So a long membership means he can take the post a little more seriously.

    It doesn't necessarily follow, but that's what I think he meant.
     
  7. Russano

    Russano Disappeared

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    Totally disagree here. This might be the case if Harry overcame things apart from the random Death Eater with his actual spellcasting prowess as opposed to sheer luck / ingenuity / plot armor. Getting Harry to Voldemorts level should be challenging enough on its own.
     
  8. Trig

    Trig Unspeakable

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    I'm personally a fan of Horcrux!Harry, so I'm a bit too tolerant on this topic because it's a decently rarely used way to introduce changes to Harry and his character. There are several stories that make Harry gain the knowledge or memories from his Horcrux, and all of them are fine as long as he has to earn it:
    • Learn Occlumency to handle the sudden influx of memories.
    • Go through each memory one by one which takes time and effort.
    • Experience the tragedies and bad memories as well (thus gaining an understanding of and sympathetic feelings for Voldemort)
    • Undergo changes in his own character, in his definition of 'myself'.
    • ...
    I mean, all of these have become somewhat common by now, but I think they are acceptable methods of not just granting him the additional power on a silver platter.
     
  9. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    1. Natural affinity I'm not so sure about - as has been said, Parseltongue is not a Dark ability, just an ability that a lot of Dark wizards have happened to have. But, you could certainly use this to give Harry an instinctive understanding of such magic, as some of the Horcrux's memories bleed through into Harry's mind.

    2. Well...yes. This is basically the same as saying Harry knuckles down and studies hard. Perfectly valid, but nothing exciting.

    3. If overplayed, this would be ridiculous, but as a very minor edge against some opponents this can work, I think.

    4. Dodgy. You could tie this into the method I mentioned in point 1, I suppose - the Horcrux's memories let him tap into the absorbed power from Voldemort's wand - but really this should only come into play against Voldemort himself. Anything else and it's too much of a cop-out, I think, and if you did use it I'd say that it should be a double-edged sword, powerful but uncontrollable.

    But yeah, on the whole the best thing to do is just take the time to properly develop Harry's powerup, whether that means a few chapters of him learning and perfecting new magic or some weird and wonderful magical ritual that takes him over 9000 but takes him ages to get to grips with. Make it difficult, not easy.

    Alternatively, depending on how AU your story is, you could just have a lot of this take place in the past. So long as your execution is up to scratch, there's nothing wrong with starting a story in say 6th year and showing Harry as someone who's spent the last five years perfecting his skills.
     
  10. Rayndeon

    Rayndeon Professor

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    Thanks for the replies.

    Well, there is nurture, but there is also nature. Natural abilities are a staple in a lot of fantasy stories. They can be done poorly, I agree, but I see no reason why they can't be done well, either. Harry has his ability to speak Parseltongue more or less as a natural ability. His touch also repels Voldemort more or less as a natural ability. Both of these abilities are canonical. I'm simply suggesting that Harry imbibed a portion of Voldemort's propensities when he became a Horcrux, particularly a talent for jinxes, hexes, and curses, as well as Dark spells in general. It is above all else a propensity so Harry will still need to do some work to utilize it. I don't think what I'm suggesting is beyond the pale for what exists in canon

    I wasn't suggesting restricting it to a select few spells. (Albeit, 'he can succeed if he tries' approaches tautology) I'm just saying that Harry has a knack for learning difficult magic on an as-needed basis, such as when he learned the Patronus Charm at the age of 13, or when he mastered the Summoning Charm in an afternoon. I do think it's plausible that Harry might find certain branches of magic easier to learn than others - such as defensive/offensive magic.

    So, later, we see him easily performing Levicorpus or Sectumsempra on his very first cast, while other magics take more effort for him. (We already know that he excels at Defense, even more proficient at it than someone more studious like Hermione) Of course, just because he finds it easier to learn doesn't mean that he doesn't have to actually learn.

    I'm not suggesting it's a massive, overwhelming edge against older opponents. Nonetheless, he does have a physical edge over his older adversaries, despite their often superior skill and experience. Sometimes this edge makes the difference, sometimes it doesn't.

    Well... it's canon. From DH,

    Also, as far as 'reliance on a tool,' virtually every wizard and witch in the world in Harry Potter is deeply reliant on their tools. When Dumbledore -- one of the most powerful wizards in the world -- lost the Elder Wand at the end of HBP, he was virtually helpless. Remove the wand, remove the wizard or witch. So, it's odd to single out Harry's reliance on his wand here.

    It's okay for a protagonist to have awesome tools and weapons are their disposal, so long as you don't go overboard. I mean rare and powerful tools are a practical staple in fantasy fiction and there's no reason they can't be done well.

    And in particular, the power Harry's wand has is almost entirely due to Voldemort. One of the core themes of the Harry Potter series is that it's Voldemort that's effectively giving Harry the tools to defeat him, by marking him as his equal. It was Voldemort that gave Lily the choice to sacrifice herself, it was Voldemort that gave Harry the scar as well as the disposition to be attuned to the brother wand, it was Voldemort that took Harry's blood, and it was Voldemort that dueled Harry with the brother wands. Like Dumbledore says in HBP, Voldemort himself gave Harry the tools and powers to defeat him and it's one of the core themes of the series. So, Harry's wand having powers when wielded against Voldemort is keeping to canon.

    I think you're over-vilifying the role of nature and over-emphasizing the role of nurture. I'm not suggesting that Harry doesn't have to do hard work. I'm not suggesting that Harry doesn't have to expend sweat, blood, and tears to match Voldemort and his forces. I'm just exploring canonically plausible ways of pointing out skills, abilities, and propensities that Harry displays and exploring ways of executing them satisfyingly for reader consumption. This isn't an attempt to find 101 ways to power wank Harry Potter - in many ways, it's the opposite.

    Unless you're doing a Dragonball Z crossover with the Harry Potter series, I'll pass.

    And yet some of the biggest advantages Harry Dresden has are ones he's barely worked for at all.

    His ability to harm Outsiders -- as a Starborn -- is something that his mother arranged by choosing the circumstances of Harry's birth. It's literally an ability he's had since he was born and it's also an ability/propensity that no amount of hard work is likely to achieve. This advantage is also probably going to be critical in the closing acts of the Dresden Files and this advantage is not one that Harry obtained through the sheer power of hard work or anything like that.

    Also, Harry's raw magical potential was likely set down from birth, making him one of the top 40 wizards in the world in terms of raw power. Of course, Butcher makes a distinction between power and control, so while Harry has a lot of power to sling about, he doesn't necessarily have the most control although he works at it over the course of several years.

    Of course, Harry's greatest skill is guile and cunning, but that's not exactly something you can compare in terms of power levels and the like. It also tends to be reliant on plot elements outside of Harry's direct control, unlike Harry's magic. (Hence, the ever-present Dresden indy ploys)

    It's okay for your protagonist to be special and stand out in some ways -- it's just a matter of authorial execution.

    ======================= @Anarchy, many of my responses here are similar to my reply to Trig, so I'll just address a few isolated points.

    Well, I'm not suggesting that Harry gains 40+ years of magical knowledge like some fics do, by having Harry 'absorb' the Horcrux or anything like that. In any case, cliched as it may be, some of those fics are actually quite good at any rate. What am I suggesting is that receiving the soul fragment of a wizard steeped in the Dark Arts at the time of his disembodiment might leave traces of the propensities that wizard has acquired over decades. I don't think it's a terribly outlandish idea or anything like that.

    Harry learned the Patronus Charm over a few months at the age of 13, when most adult wizards can barely cast it, let alone a corporeal one, and not one that can repel hundreds of Dementors at a time. I think you're significantly underselling Harry's Patronus -- it got him extra credit on his Defense OWL for a reason.

    I'm just suggesting it gives him excellent reflexes and hand-eye coordination (although I can concede that other skilled Quidditch players may have similar reflexes and hand-eye coordination), which aids in his ability to rapidly and accurately cast spells on target and react to spellfire. That's it.

    It's old magic more than anything else, but see my reply to Trig above. It's not an arbitrary gimmick - or at least, it's no more so than what Rowling made canon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  11. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Follow-up with regard to Quidditch trained reflexes: how well this comes across is going to very much depend on how your reader views magic in the HP-verse. A lot of people on DLP scorn the idea that spells work by aiming, incantation, bolt of light taking time (even a split second) to hit your target, so would make the point that it doesn't matter how quick your reflexes are if magic is happening at the speed of thought. If your audience doesn't hold that view though, or (perhaps more importantly) doesn't care so long as it's well written, it's ok.
     
  12. Quick Ben

    Quick Ben In ur docs, stealin ur werds.

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    One of the things that a lot of fics don't do is show Harry learning and mastering his abilities.

    I can buy into almost any idea as long as the author goes out of their way to show that just having the capability isn't enough, more has to be done.

    Its one of the reasons why Santi's fic is amazing, imo. Harry is naturally smart but he learns and the author allows for us to see him learning. This way when he does something super awesome, we know where it came from and appreciate it better.

    Speaking of duels in the series. Why is it that alot of fics never really explored non verbal casting?

    Snape putting down Harry in OoTP was one of the most frustrating yet satisfying moments for me in the series and I hoped she'd explore it more but she didn't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  13. SeekingSerenity

    SeekingSerenity Third Year

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    People like powerful Harry because they think that the power he has somehow obtained will change his mindset. Well I'm sorry to say this but it won't.He will still stay the boy who doesn't want to use stunners because he is afraid to find out that he doesn't have the resolve to take a life even if it means protecting the people he treasures dearly(well according to the book).

    Power that is achieved without a sacrifice is not real power it's a mere afterthought of bad character development. Its fucking bullshit that feels dull.

    The world of Harry Potter(i mean the cannon) is just not expressive enough to deliver wizardly skill and power in a way that can simply transfigure a person just passing by, to the constructs of magic happening before his eyes.
    Voldemort and Dumbledore should have been portrayed as walking powerhouses that can take down dozens of wizards left and right with a mere though and a flick of their wand.But in the book apparently, taking more then one wizard is like dividing with zero,it just won't happen and if it will, there would be a big chance of breaking the feeble shackles of what we consider logic.

    If my memory serves me right Dumbledore took out a few wizards with a spell when he appeared at the ministry +inferri fight+the duel of dumbles vs voldie are that only redeeming reminders that signify that JKR actually knows that she writes about magic not some crack story.The mere though of taking out V&D with underhanded tactics should be out of the window taking a ride on a hippogriff to the next big adventure. Be honest and confess how many of you though that Voldemort could be taken out with a simple gun?JKR should have somehow ingrained having that thought is equivalent to being straight out barmy. Death Eaters should be like SHit OG DUMBLES IN DA HOUSE,WE BETTER GET THE FUCK OUT.

    When the power and fame of a person rivals a legend, of course we might have certain expectations.The dude defeated grindelwalt the DARK LORD who had followers called REAPERS (seriously how badass this guy was?) and was pretty much strong to be feared across all Europe.Then we see Dumbledore saying some tripe " the power of love will help you harry "( because every bit of training i might give you will certainly make you seem just much more pathetic).
    If canon Harry had Dumbledorian lvl of power he would still be rather disliked.Why you might ask? Simple because his personality is filthy trash.
    Harry really doesn't have to have more magical skill to be considered as powerful yet plausible.Oh boy you have no idea what destructive power a few school curses can have. He just needs a new mindset that will probably label him as a person with some serious issues for the rest of his life but hey he will be a delight to read.
    Oh look little harrykins you just found out that a terrorist that was actually close to winning a war that rocked the country,and you just found out that he is not only not dead but is also part immortal and roams the world as a shade created one of the most dark of magics, just happened to be possessing your DADA teacher whom you foolishly followed to protect a stone that was pretty handy to have so you can cope with the expectations that come with the BWL and not be considered as worthless as people always mutter(what do you mean the guy i supposedly vanquished is him?)?
    And ofc the knowledge that you somehow prevailed throughout sheer dumb luck and the condensed inhuman insanity called Voldemort, never actually considered you as threat or though that there would actually be something so absolutely deus-ex that can top a adult wizard with a uncanny fetish for flames + a dark lord remnant( with questionable power manifested in intent )in his head that can guide him that you conveniently forgot because hey we won the house cup? Oh wait i certainly got a dose of my own insignificance and decided to fight the king of snakes that is the size of a small building(that has magic resistance) and has death glare that is actually a reallife death glare,just because some pureblood dumbbitch that was born and raised in a wizard household took a dark object and decided that it will actually be fun writing back and forth with a book that happened to be in your cauldron while you somehow wakeup with a memory loss after every CoS attack?

    Sorry for the rant it as uncalled for. All i wanted to say was:
    Just mellow Harry a bit and make him work on his safe preservation and it will work fine.
     
  14. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    I think you mean the Half-Blood Prince fight where Harry was tossed like a salad by Snape because he didn't learn what Snape had been teaching him.

    As for the silent casting, I love it- how much easier is writing a battle where you don't have to bother with the incantations and just describe the decisions and outcomes?



    Are you trying to say, "Harry can't possibly catch up to the uber-awesome of Voldemort, so any Rocky-like training is a waste of time. His power is deus-ex and nothing else, just accept it"?

    My reply: "Yes, that's canon, but anyone who wants to write a Harry who travels the hero's journey instead of the martyr's march really has to figure out ways to make the Rocky thing sound believable."
     
  15. Vulcan

    Vulcan Groundskeeper

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    The way of 'amping up' Harry - instead of resenting his fame as BWL, let's imagine Harry who wants to live up to the rumors, to become a powerful wizard and not just a boy with a catchy nickname.
     
  16. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    Wait, wait, that was almost poetic. Are you a writer or something? ;)

    On a serious note, yes, I think you're dead right on here. And, unless there's some type of power-up, it can't be six months of training to complete Badass level 10, either.

    Pers combined them in his Harry/Veela fic.

    Jbern actually combined them in TLIL (a lifetime's worth of training for James plus Harry's powerup in getting them).

    Mine was more like Pers.

    On the other side, for the classic unbelievable, check out White Night, Grey Queen. I'm one that enjoys his writing, but his methods for making Harry powerful (when he gives reasons) are lacking.
     
  17. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    If the only purpose of Harry getting a Divine Power-Up (or a Devilish Power-Up, if you're going for Darghk Harry) is to make him on par with Dumbledore or Voldemort so he can fight them, you're doing it wrong.

    Now, I'm not against power-ups in principle. There are enough ideas out there that you can always borrow one and adapt it for own use, hopefully shedding the stupid in the process. Some of them are potentially very interesting. The challenge lies in incorporating a power-up smartly into your story so it doesn't turn into crackish crap.

    I'm also a firm believer that unless:

    1. you go full FFN-Writer with whatever you've got Harry doing

    2. time-travel is involved

    3. Harry is not a kid anymore and has had time to pursue knowledge

    4. other ???

    there is no way that a Hogwarts era Harry can measure up to friggin Voldemort. It just won't happen. Harry would have to play catch-up for thirty years or something to be able to stand on even ground with HP's ultimate bamf. That's why an ending wherein Harry beats Voldemort one-on-one goes out the window. For me, at least.

    You wanna do it, do it right. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Harry won't become a Master Shadow Mage in the span of a summer. If you want him to duke it out with Voldemort, he'll need some good back-up. Moody-level good. And that may not be enough, because Voldemort dueled three opponents in DH and they weren't getting anywhere.


    Lol, but also true. Kind of. I wouldn't take it to the extreme of pretty much equating Dumbledore or Voldemort to demigods.
     
  18. SeekingSerenity

    SeekingSerenity Third Year

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    To be honest i think it is a very big challenge to write Harry via the hero journey without any tragic past. You would need a new big enough motivator that won't feel lackluster. That depends on the story primarily.Harry just isn't the kind of guy who has a initiative. If he isn't under pressure he just won't give a fuck and will continue to do roflcopters with his broom. So if the story is only going to be au after the first year Hogwarts express i suggest putting him in an environment that feels hostile, he can be put in slytherin ,make grifindors hate him because he is perselmouth at year first etc etc... or a tragic event like hermione dieing with the troll or someother random shit you can come up with.Or you can just make him reallise the gravity of the situation.
    No one will go to the rambo training without some kind of catalyst or trigger that will allow him to chose. It just won't happen. So you ask how to get the benefits of rambo training and making it believable? Simple:

    Don't make him LORD PARAVEL-BLACK-POTTER A.K.A xxxNOwand360xxx pioneer of wandless magic at the tender age of 13, has a dark phoenix animagus form with deep emerald eyes that burn with such intensity fiendfyre is being created , or when he is angry his eyes flash,hair goes up,air feels like ozone and people are down to their knees just from his ""BATTLE AURA".
    Well authors fuck you.Just fuck yourself.It's so cringeworthy.
    This is the main problem of "inheritance" fics,the MC goes from the leader of team SelfSacrifice to cold calculating politician that can outmaneuver Dumbledore at the tender age of 13.Sry 16.
    Here's how you do it:
    Make him realize the situation as it is,give him an idea of what can be the consequence of his foolish actions and their repercussions.Make him divide school/ learning to survive.He's slowly getting more distant.Few friends,Hogwarts doesn't feel like home,a little angst won't be bad. BOOM Epiphany(i will never be normal,in fact i might not even see my coming of age,the world is unfair,why must i suffer when they are laughing while playing exploding snap.Every single situation that escaped my grasp is a product of my power, or lack thereof. )
    Make him colder more survival based.
    Give him 3 curses that he will master and can use them nonverbaly after a sizable interval of time.A cutter,shield breaker +piercing spell.Make him fast, methodical and deadly.Harry can't take out a wizard?Bail out.
    Give him a good protego based shield charm.Wandless magic is considered to be esoteric thing so please stop with your foolishness,that's like drinking with a fork instead of a spoon.The only wandless magic he might need probably a summoning charm for his wand.Give him basic occlumency shields that atleast can notice a subtle legimancy attack.Make him able to do trasfiguration in the heat of battle and combine with a spell chain for further results. Give him the ability to trasnfigure or create a physical shield in the dire of situations.
    Just make him efficient with low resource high reward spells like spaming banisher on transfigured wooden spikes.Make him fight as dirty as possible.Let him use serpentosia and order snakes to do his bidding.
    To realistically fight Voldemort who could do and practiced wandless magic since the age of 6,and with no deusex asspull Harry needs to be atleast 40-50 years old with constant fighting(welp with cannon logic ).
    As for overall skill&power HOGWARTS HARRY should be around TONKS level.If he is stronger then that it's unrealistic.

    If you decide to go deus ex there are probably 2 options:
    1.time-travel
    2-horcrux download
    If you find a noncrack third option i'm all ears .
    P.S.
    Don't make him an animagus because for a lot of writers it's a measure of a wizard level
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  19. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Paragraphs. Use them more often.

    Regarding natural affinity: James seems to have been gifted at transfiguration, Lily at charms. Wands suited for these purposes chose them. This clearly indicated there is at least some innate talent regarding certain fields of magic.

    Regarding Dumbledore: He took out the aurors in his office in one smooth move and had a nice little chat with Harry without them any the wiser. This certainly indicates that he operates on a different level than normal magic users.

    Which brings me to the point-and-shoot theory of magic battles: Snape has shown us that with sufficient skill (and a Legimilens leg-up), one can basically nullify an opponent by dispelling everything they try to cast. Which makes Harry's reflexes and hand-eye coordination useless.

    Sidenote: I remember a story where Harry was training with Sirius and Remus in Greece. Harry wanted to grind battle magic, but he was told that that wouldn't really help him. For demonstration purposes, they pitted Sirius and Remus against Dumbledore. They threw curses and what-have-you at him, but Dumbledore wiped the floor with them by simply using a different approach, somewhat similar to the duel at the end of OotP. It showed Harry that a general understanding of magic was necessary to become better.

    tl;dr: hard work (based on sufficient motivation) is needed to become better, an epiphany/magical break-through or some tool is needed to become better than most, and a deus ex machina is needed to beat Voldemort.
     
  20. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    I think this basically comes down to approach. The problem is that most authors and readers want to start the fic with a powerful Harry instead of ending it with one.

    Power is relative, so no matter how powerful Harry is, there is still a need for a competent antagonist. This could mean more powerful, or smart, or any number of other things that no matter how powerful, Harry would have to work hard to overcome. This would make him weaker than the antagonist in one way or another.

    This inherently means that if you want to start with a powerful Harry, that fic is likely not going to be a good one.

    Take canon for instance. Harry was not really weak in canon. He was capable of casting a Patronus in his third year, which in the canon world is pretty advanced magic. He isn't on the level of Albus Dumbledore, but objectively he is powerful.

    Perhaps what you actually mean instead of powerful is a more competent Harry, one who works harder and is more focused in overcoming the problems in his path. This is possible, and is what many of the better fics do, but usually it also means that Harry isn't a realistic eleven year old.

    TL;DR Don't start with a powerful Harry, make him powerful through the course of the fic so that it ends with one.
     
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