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How does a Shield Charm react to a nuclear explosion?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Andrela, Nov 28, 2015.

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  1. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    I don't see how a generic shield charm could stop the heat, the pressure, the radiation. or the building falling down on top of you. Do we really think the HP world is a place where a single spell can do everything?
     
  2. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Well, I don't think the shield charm is going to be making you dinner any time soon, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the shield charm shields you.
     
  3. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Headmaster

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    Like Taure said, if a Shield Charm protects the caster in a full sphere, then it could work. What's more, the explosion would still be governed by physics, and large bursts of energy like that take the path of least resistance, i.e. around the shield rather than through it (this would also drastically reduce the amount of force being exerted upon the shield itself).

    On the other hand though, once the shield ends and unless other precautions are taken, the residual heat (however much 100,000,000 degrees Celsius imparts of the surroundings) and radiation would fry said wizard where they stand.
     
  4. Radmar

    Radmar Disappeared

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    Well, speed of blast wave alone is 300 mps. Someone before me mentioned pretty high temperature and radiation. No offence to Taure, but I just can't accept that single shield can take that much punishment. An idea that shield instictively knows whether incoming energy is magical or otherwise and determining if it should completely negate it or not is riddiculous.

    I understand that magic has dominance over mundane nature, but that has to have its limits. If I understand it right, if a nuclear bomb (or the Sun) suddenly exploded, wizards would be just fine with their shield charms, but not against stunning spells? That makes no sense. Surely nuclear bomb is more dangerous than that.

    Also, even water can be harmful. Cedric could've used shield charm during the second task, but he used bubblehead charm instead.

    I am not saying that muggles are better than wizards. I am saying that Shield charm can only take so much. I am fine with shield charm stopping bullets and rockets, but Nuclear weapons should be too much.
     
  5. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    If you're going to argue that there is a limit to what a properly cast Shield Charm can defend against, it shouldn't be limited by the definable force of an attack. If it can block the kinetic force of a gunshot, it should block the kinetic force of an explosion. It isn't a conjured object blocking a blow, it is a magic shield negating an attack.

    Magic says fuck you to physics as it is. Arguing that there is a limit to what it can block, without the slightest hint of such limits from canon, is baseless.
     
  6. ProvisionalID

    ProvisionalID Squib

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    I'm with Anarchy and Dr Sarcasm. I could see a Shield Charm maybe providing some initial physical protection from a concussive blast but I can't see it protecting you from the resulting fallout or the reacting world around you. By which I mean, collapsing buildings, radiation, etc etc. So...you'd probably still die somehow.
     
  7. apoc

    apoc The Once and Ginger King DLP Supporter

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    You're thinking of it the wrong way.

    Magic in Harry Potter isn't mechanical, its thematic. There isn't a set amount of force that a shield will block. A shield charm is the actualization of the concept of protection through magic. The only way it can be overcome is through other magic (like the Killing Curse).

    It doesn't matter if its a nuclear explosion, a rifle, or a stunner. A shield charm protects. But how does it work against radiation? Or heat? Or viruses? It just does. It doesn't stop X Newtons of force or Joules of energy. It just protects. Period. End of sentence.
     
  8. Radmar

    Radmar Disappeared

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    Ok, then. Shield charm protects against harm. What is more harmful, stunning spell, or nuclear explosion? Going by your logic, nuclear explosion should be harder to block.
     
  9. apoc

    apoc The Once and Ginger King DLP Supporter

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    Well a) as I mentioned, since its magic it can be effected and defeated by certain magics and b) the shield charm protects against the stunning spell so I don't know what you're going for here.

    The only spell we've seen consistently piece the shield charm are unblockable spells, specifically the Killing Curse.
     
  10. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The blast wave contains about half the energy in a nuclear explosion. Another 40% or so is in the flash of light and thermal radiation. Ionizing radiation, neutrons, and delayed reaction products are a much smaller fraction.

    Is the shield charm completely opaque, blocking all photons at all energies? If not, then the plucky wizard will still get flash fried/blinded even if he shields himself from the blast wave itself and the overpressures that shatter eyeballs, collapse lungs, turn glass windows into flying clouds of projectiles of death, etc.
     
  11. Ashton Knight

    Ashton Knight Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Uh, you guys realise we have to take No Limits Fallacy argument into account?

    Just because the only thing that can penetrate a Shield Charm is a Killing Curse does not mean that nothing can penetrate a Shield Charn. That's like saying that as long as you use a Protego then you can survive falling into the sun.

    Now, let's take a closer look at the Shield Charm. When you use it, you're still breathing, hence something is getting through the shield charm. Also, has the shield charm ever blocked physical attacks?

    Edit: Also, let's say that somehow that the Shield Charm works. What happens when, after the attack, you release it? You'll be assaulted by all the radiation.
     
  12. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    You can simply walk away from the dangerous area before releasing the charm.
     
  13. Ashton Knight

    Ashton Knight Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Can you move while you have Protego up? Also, a nuclear blast radius is extremely high. And my other points?
     
  14. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Everyone thought that it was the horcruxes that made Voldemort look like that, but in the months before coming to apply for the Defence Against the Dark Arts position, Tom Riddle had discovered a new way to demonstrate his power, addictive enough to be considered the ultimate rush:

    Shockwave surfing.

    A Protego cast for the purpose made him look like a six-foot silver ball bearing. He had to maintain a separate layered bubblehead and disillusionment charms to ensure he could last throughout the flash, acceleration and landing. The stress at the moment of first impact is the hard part- you can't tell when it's coming, and you have to hold your spells together through that initial push all through the waves of aftereffects bouncing you around the landscape like a human billiard ball.

    China was the last to move their tests underground in 1980. It was then that the Dark Lord realized that he needed to refocus his attention on his other hobbies.
     
  15. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I think it was Taure who once argued that the Shield Charm is conceptual magic. We've seen it work both as a solid shield and against spells. It shields the caster from physical and immediate danger, no matter what form it might take.

    Granted, that is a broad theory and has plenty of holes to be poked into it, but as a general idea I support it. The Shield Charm responds to whatever the caster wants to shield against.
     
  16. Ashton Knight

    Ashton Knight Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Again, we need to take the No Limits Fallacy argument into consideration. See post #33 for my full explanation.
     
  17. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You actually didn't provide any real argument as to the nature of the no limits fallacy. Fortunately, others have done so before so I can more or less guess what your argument is. It doesn't apply in this case, because the argument is not about amount of force but type of force. Magic has plenty of limits with respect to magical forces and magical law. The point is that quantity of physical energy is not one of the limits magic takes into account. Asking which is more dangerous out of a nuke and a stunner misses the point about type of power. If you're looking to open a door, having a bigger key isn't going to get you inside if it's the wrong shape.
     
  18. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

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    With the specific example of nukes I'd argue that the "whatever the caster wants to shield against" should be taken literally and not conceptually. Simply wanting to shield against a nuke would only stop you from being physically crushed by the bomb...

    So in order to successfully shield against the effects of a nuke, you'd have to have very clear understanding of the effects of the weapon: the shock wave, ionizing radiation, EM-radiation, debris, etc. And even after succeeding in all that you'd still be in danger of dying by snapping your neck when you fall down to the bottom of the crater.

    If Protego was end all be all protection against any and all unspecified threats (except the Killing Curse), there's no excuse for there being a lot of wizards not able to cast it (really you could reduce all of DADA into "101 of how to cast Protego"). And competitive dueling would be the most boring sport ever imagined.
     
  19. Zel

    Zel High Inquisitor

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    Scientists will work out the Unified Field Theory before an agreement comes from this discussion haha

    I agree with you man, it surely makes sense, but Harry's Sectumsempra might contradict this. All he knew was that the spell was meant "for enemies", and it worked. It's possible that only by willing the spell to protect him it would end up shielding him from everything harmful. I will stop asking myself how the shield would know what is harmful or not because it would be pure guesswork from there.
     
  20. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Well, how about this?

    The shield charm protects what you want to protect yourself from. Understanding what you're defending yourself from is pretty vital to casting it and that makes DADA relevent because you're studying the curses and how to defend against them. You could say the majority could be defended against with a basic level of knowledge and then ramp that up with a deeper understanding of another category of curses required.

    So if you knew the details and understood everything a nuke would throw at you, you could shield against it but it would be a mammoth task to study enough to properly understand the desfense involved.

    Then you run into Protego Maxima. I'd interpret that as a spell that shields a large area from a large variety of events/spells.

    This thread could go on forever. It's like asking, "could Harry summon the moon?"
     
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