Arguing with you isn't going to get you to admit you have a scum role PM, Proph.

I think you are outed mafia because, while fonti's case wasn't a slam-dunk, I agree with her overall premise, that your posts show "a consistent mindset of taking away the context of posts in order to form reads."

Like. You gave Storm a bold townread out of the gate, and your stated reason is

You're... sucking the nuance out of his post. You're not holding it up to the light and trying to really get a feel for it - which I mean come on you're hard townreading him off that, you would have had to. It's artificial. You know he's town, and if you know he's town, then it's easy to read that as towny paranoia.

Whereas having to look at it not knowing Storm's alignment, you kind of cycle through the Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 - "okay that's kind of nervous. And blatant. But it's jokey, too. And Storm's pretty new-ish, I think. Hm, okay, would he post that as mafia? He'd probably think it was too bold? Lean town I guess."

You didn't have any of that.

But, fonti's case isn't what makes scum!Proph a slam dunk. What seals the deal is your reaction to it.

You throw up walls. You demand explanations for why X Y or Z makes you scum. Crucially, you stop trying to solve the game and focus completely on defense, which I would buy from an overwhelmed new player getting tunneled by fonti, but not from you.

And then you vanished.

You let the void of your absence be filled by doubt and paranoia. If you're town, then from your perspective you got heavily scumread and almost assuredly were getting pushed by multiple scum, or at the very least they were letting it happen and town was going completely down the wrong path, and you... just shut up and see what happens? No.

I cannot wrap my head around the town mindset for that sequence of events.

 

uggGGHH I'm having second thoughts

I agreed with Newcomb that you spent most of that wall saying 'this isn't indicative of scum' and primarily focusing on that. But you're also laying out your mindset behind each action fontisian is attacking you for, which I like, plus I can buy that you're really trying to figure out fontisian the Terror.

Hngh.

I'd ask you about your reads, but you're doing a reset, so. That'll happen eventually, I guess. I'm mostly interested in your read on fontisian at this point, since you've engaged with her the most.

 

And what if I don't? Are you going to simply shut down all discussion with me because you think I have a scum role PM, and completely ignore the cases where I am town?

How would I have "held it up to the light"?

Generally, when I see towntells from someone, I make an effort to clearly state them. I've seen tons of town newbies be slaughtered by the lynch based on people not understanding that they have a town mindset. I saw something townie from Storm, and I pointed it out. Given, it's not a 100% slam dunk town tell, but given that Storm's experience is minor (and it's far more likely that the "promise not to lie to me bit" is just town being paranoid over scum faking it) I think it's reliable.

See above for why I overstate my townreads and try to project them to be as confident as possible - to block scum trying to gain lynch traction on them. I may have gone through the specific thought process in my mind, yes, but I tend to be far less explain-y than that (of course, if I have to).

I demand explanations because I want to hear how person X comes to that conclusion and why they think I'm scum. How is that /not/ solving the game? Sure, I'm focused on defense because I'm town, and any lynch other than myself is better because I know I'm town, but saying that I've been completely fixated on defense is incorrect. I'm trying to defend myself, as well as attempt to gain better reads on the people who are just voting me due to font's case.

I was busy with RL/other commitments which prevented me from properly posting (which led to the absence of 24 hours) but now I'm 100% committed to reading the game, stopping my lynch, and trying to get us to lynch actual scum.

 

What are we doing right now, Proph?

Have you read my last few posts? Or like, gotten a feel for me this entire game? I'm hyper-aware of the danger of blind-tunneling you.

You did the same thing with fonti, too. Kind of whiffed on the nuance and meaning of a big thing. It's like... you're disconnected from the thread. Or seeing what you want to see, or something. I just don't buy that town!Proph would be that.... selective, confused, off-sync, something like that.

 

I've been ninja'd a lot since I was originally asked what I was thinking, so I still have the post from before Prophy popped in if dlgn wants it later, but for now:

Regarding Newcomb and his towncircle, it's not my style. I've never played in a Let's Establish Certain Official Circles way, and I don't think it's how my brain works (I am explorative to a fault.) There's plenty of people who do play that way ITT to varying degress of success and I don't really want to talk to them about it unless I think they're being actively detrimental to the game by doing it. Do I think that all of the scum are in that group? Not really; again, I would be weirdly confirmation biasing if I were to approach my D1s like that. Do I think he's town? Uh, more than likely (I think his tone is great), though I am hoping to sort through him and Jan over the course of the next 40 hours or so because I have a gut flag about their interactions - like I feel like at least one of them is being unfair/disingenuous but I haven't fleshed it out. I suppose I think it's interesting that with the way Newcomb talks about me, he hasn't really asked me anything since fonti told him to townread me, and that was on my list of things to maybe talk to him about that I was trying to decide if I should yet or not.

I don't know Prophy very well. The only game I've read with him, he and fonti were both town and very much in sync early in the game. I'm aware that they've hydraed together also, and so I'm actually surprised to hear that he thinks she always suspects him. I had thought the opposite. Before Prophy posted just now I was at a point where I was unusually ambivalent - normally I'm really mad when someone I suspect just drops the ball for that long, but I was feeling like I and others had really tried to understand where he was coming from and weren't being met halfway, and that if he was town he still had plenty of time to show up and prove it. fonti's thinking was along the same lines as mine which was reassuring (in some ways it put words to some of my feelings, though not precisely), and I agreed with Newcomb that his reaction to fonti's case was not what I expected and plausibly scum-caught-for-the-wrong-reasons. The way he addressed Jan still feels weak, and the read on Storm seems misguided to me at best. Rusty struggling scum was the overall sense I got. I feel like I've seen him be so much more nuanced in his thinking and, I guess, a different kind of confident.

Def looking forward to seeing reads from Prophy as he sounds...actually passionate, for lack of better wording, now. I'm listening. I'm actually hoping to get some of my old obsessive/frantic brain for gamesolving back because I've swung too far into giggly apathy this game.

 

You would have kept doing it if I didn't aggressively reach out to you.

Picture this from my perspective. The game started and I was mostly engaged with the thread on Saturday afternoon/evening. However, on Sunday, I couldn't get in here and dedicate a couple of hours to the game, which would be around the time font pushed the bogus case on me. And we fast forward to today, where I was preoccupied with other IRL things and just now had a chance to actually post.

I agree that I am disconnected from the thread and haven't had the time to put in what I normally put in for these type of games. However, I am trying my best right now to get a solid grasp on the thread and remain so until the Day is over. My "disconnectedness" is a factor of my time, not my alignment.

I do realize that you've been trying to be very aware of the dangers of tunneling me, but it still bothered me that you just kept pointing to me as some museum exhibit or something without attempting to talk to me.

 

~wannabe automerge~

Well, a combination of giggly apathy and strategizing to get information optimally.

 

Re: the post you mentioned - keep doing your thing.

 

I mean... I just don't see the point of engaging with someone you're trying to lynch. Every answer a player will make about themselves is self-interested, period. Regardless of alignment.

---------- Post automerged at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

Like. If you want me to seriously entertain the notion you're town, stop trying to make me put myself in your shoes and go start spitting out game analysis.

 

I should be able to get to this in the afternoon tomorrow. I lost track of time and are about to pass out.

I might be able to make a quick post in the morning if I get time before work.

 

i'm going to stay up for another hour if anybody wants to chat, otherwise rereading stuff from tonight

 

I'll post my big reread stuff tomorrow, going to bed now. Was about halfway done.

 

dLGN

So, this post. Specifically this part:

I don't really have any reason for asking this other than to satisfy my curiosity; possibly to see if my take on your thought process is decent, but...

That me/fonti interaction is a favorite of mine this game for me, as well. You're absolutely correct that there's a ton of subtext.

Translate it for me, in your own words.

---------- Post automerged at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

Huh, actually

Maybe it's not an idle question after all.

I mean you're making kind of a bold statement, there.

 

Yeah sure i'll explain both my initial take and current interpretation. You can correct me if I'm wrong. One min.

---------- Post automerged at 04:25 ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 ----------

Initial take:
a. Possible joke? about all the crazy connections looping all over the place and the townread was largely just about the chart, yeah. So a phrasing thing using 'round about'.
b Possible trap? Give a townread, have someone inquire and not want a certain answer, claim that it sort of is about said answer and ask them to guess/"get it" and perhaps come around to saying the chart is why she's towny because they don't really have another reason and are content to be agreeable. Holy shit that's terribly wordy.
Uh.
It's kinda like...
A: I think X is towny.
B: Please tell me it's not because of obvious surface level reason Y because that's not good enough.
A: But it is, essentially.
B: Yeah, I guess it is, okay.

A catches B in townreading X for something they initially admitted they did not think was good enough.

Either way I liked fonti for the question.

However, I think neither of those are what actually was going on, but I didn't realize until a reread.

Why I liked you for your responses was that you both had a response ready, you ventured the guess, and how you went about the subsequent interactioni. Specifically, by bolding the certain things that you did, I understood it to imply that you didn't find the chart towny per se, but more so her willingness to post it despite thinking she'd get called out for IIoA and yet not being self-conscious enough to withhold it. Also for explicitly admitting such a thought, which is also towny. But what I think you both understand is you can be confident she isn't just wifoming because she actually used the chart with the 'I'm not sure what to make of what you're saying that conflicts with what I've heard' bit BEFORE all of that wifom happened. It's therefore NOT IIoA, but instead definitively analysis beyond information.

Fonti seemed to be in agreement and gave the "I'm so proud of you" line which seemed like a genuine mindmeld moment. You quickly post the (fantastic) cat in a pocket image to symbolize you acknowledging this little moment you shared and how you townread her, and she (surprisingly!) returned the sentiment with an image of her own. But that was all unspoken, which made it even better.

I do not see that ever being W/W, and I find it hard to imagine it even being W/V or V/W.

Adding you both to my solid town with Delphine makes me feel better about the Proph lynch. I then reconsidered a bit on my snowvon and jan townreads, looking more for associations based on what I believe could very likely be a hit in Proph. Found a lot of little reasons to suspect snowvon and today I come to post a summary of my notes and find fonti dropping the same damn bomb on his head. Crazy moment. Feel good about this game.

 

hi guys.

I'm glad you all missed me - now I'm warm and fuzzy inside as well as out.

So anyway, some thoughts

First up is that font made a pretty good day 1 case to which Proph had what could be charitably called a less than stellar reaction. Self-focused, no real alternatives offered, that kind of thing. Now he's making a post that might actually go somewhere (inb4 to lynching me), but on reflection so far, nothing about what he's said or done has made me think there's a better lynch for today.

Second is Limp Noodle Snowvon stars in the Empire Limp Noodle Strikes Back™ (again). So last time we played Snowvon had a pretty good starting day and then rode on that for the entire rest of the game. This time Snowvon has immediately jumped into ride mode without even starting the car and uh I've kind of run out of road for this metaphor.

ANYWAY he's probably scum too. but that's something for tomorrow so hey.

Rubicon usually does stuff. I dunno. Like I happened to read that WH where I leeroyed him day 1 again recently and he said lots of things that I correctly interpreted as 'WITCH IN DIRE NEED OF IMMEDIATE KILLING RIGHT HERE' but this game he's just sort of... existing? And I just don't know what to make of that.

? What does this even mean?

 

KaiDASH that you feel like you did in Lovers ie town but that your play style there was so low effort that it wouldn't exactly be hard to fake (part of the reason you and Citrus were being scum read).

 

You revisiting this is important to me.

 

I did it! finally hit the reset button on my fucked up sleeping schedule! Time to spend one hour in here before i do some important work ..

Hmm going back to delphines question to me :

Thanks for asking a broad question about the person with the most posts.

I want to say in general i understand him, some nuances of his play i missunderstand, because we are rarely in sync in our analysis of the game.

While we both fluently jump between different meta levels when looking at/reading the thread we are not always on the same level, and both have a good amount of trouble reading the other one right because of that.
(I am unsure if we ever townread each other outside of the first game we played together (which was the first forum game for both of us))
We also respect each other enough to believe the other one capable o being a sly fox.

That is my general opinion on him .. will go over his iso next.

The only post worth mentioning he did is this one :

The only reason that post is interesting is because that is an obvious joke (proph had only made 1 post before, which was a single vote on snowvon), one rvs vote is never enough to try to foil votal analysis.

Not actually much on it's own, but the jab looked out of place, considering that proph had not done anything to deserve it.
Looks a bit like tmi if proph flips scum, is nothing if he flips town. I can't help but believe that this post is manufactured.

Moving on ... the rest of his early game is not that content heavy.

His talk about dLGNs read on me and early slight scumread on proph don't read special. Important to note that they are not of his own making, he is only tagging along with fonti.

Next up is a bit about general gameplay talk, how he sucked hard in his last games and tunneled too much, and that everything would change for the better.
The fact that he was not able to sustain that preplanned meta is by far the towniest thing Newcomb has done all game. It is natural. As scum sticking to your preplanned ideas is easier, because everything you do is manufactured, ditching said plan to follow your reads is in itself more towny.

I am unsure why he spelled wft instead of wtf, but i am mostly posting this to remind him of this failures in his past.

The fonti-Newcomb interaction, i don't think it is w/w, because while it is fakeable, the outcome is minimal.
v/v or v/w is possible.

One of the worst things i have read him say is this :

Talking about using PoE this game and then giving one of the harder reads (fonti) a mostly easy townpass. That is the disconnect i was talking about earlier, that really rubs me the wrong way.
I think she is more likely town at this point, but he gave her too much credit at a time where it was not warranted, that combined with his slow PoE approach is something i really do not like.

After that the interesting part is the empty vote on proph (as in the posting exists only to vote proph and not give any content along with it).
The only reason that is slightly towny is beause most scum would not have the balls to make such an empty post, since he never had much of an own case against proph, and was piggybacking fonti for the ride.
If Newcomb flips scum, then this looks clearing for fonti, because the way he is attaching himself to her, makes them seem aligned, which makes me believe that they are not. (Does that make sense?)

Next up #142 + #145 - two posts in which he is inquisitive towards others about rubicon, in a way that makes them seem more scummy, and rubicon look slightly better, while keeping himself at distance.
Compare those posts to his accusation of Snowvon in #88. While it is not the same, he attacks snowvon for soft defending proph, while doing the same later on with rubicon.

He then posts his sharkpost, which is where delphines question to me originates from.
The post in itself would be towny (natural change of gameplay), if it wasn't completly on the nose. I am getting slightly disturbed by his self awarness of his own playstyle here. He is giving us the play-by-play to his own thoughts just so we don't dare to miss it.

I am impressed that Newcomb, after being horrible wrong on a town and tunneling that person a whole game (i subbed into that slot on day 3), after a single post, does something similar to questionmark proph.
He has this early scumread, and the moment fonti starts the tunnel, he just goes with it. The only difference here is that last time it was on his own account, this time he jumped on fontis back.
If Newcomb actually is trying to turn over a new leaf, he is failing horribly.

Newcomb : Do me the favor, remove the breaks for the next 12 hours or so, you are talking about playing with breaks on, but you are still in a tunnel, i do not see a lot of difference. Show me that there actually is a difference in your play and it is not just hot air.
Because right now the only difference in your play is the way you are talking about it.

On the upside, if newcomb is scum, then he is at least in semi bus mode, since i think most of his townsreads are actually town.

Need to reread the newest Newcomb/Proph interaction, but i spend way to much time with this and really have to go handle some pressing real life matters.

Right now I feel completly ok with my vote on Newcomb.

Curious on reactions to my post, and Newcomb, take this as me throwing some red meat into your pond. Show me the shark you keep blabbering about, because for me there is not a lot of difference in your play.