I don't even know where to start with this... ??????? Have you ever caught a team of 3 behaving like the three of us are?

I may be confident bordering on cocky but I'm not stupid or reckless enough to go about hard aligning in the most open, conspicuous way possible... But then again I guess you don't know me...

Anyway, the other world is.. more plausible, at least? I still don't really understand the townreads on Storm but I haven't iso'd him tbh. And I am pushing on Snow, so I agree with you there.

I don't know if I agree with you having Snowvon and Newcomb on the same team, though. Their back and forth about inquiring re: one naked townread vs another similar one seemed real, and I read Snowvon as genuinely measuring how hard he wanted to push that line (though I am unsure whether it's as mafia not wanting to make a mountain out of a molehill and draw heat if others don't hop on board that idea or if he's town and just unsure of the alignment indicativeness of the 'catch'.

---------- Post automerged at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

* I'll amend that to say fonti did give me an idea of why she townread Storm, but I had the sense it was a much more widely held opinion and saw few others ever really explain it.

 

If you look at my rainbow you're my one worse then null. Therefore if you flipped town it would necessitate a major reconfiguration of my reads. A reset if you will. I was also answering this:

Combined with this:

 

Ok, I just got home. Give me a min to settle down. If anyone needs anything urgent let me know.

 

Newcomb and fonti have hard aligned before (admittedly at a later stage of the game) I'd consider it completely in character for them to double down on that if they rolled scum together again. You're there for other reasons. Though being that in sync with scum!fonti wouldn't help matters.

That said this is all dependent on a Town!flip Proph.

 

Trash-tier read.

Not only is it a weak reason to scumread someone - "well, everything they've done I could imagine them doing as scum, so..." - but it's also a thought process you're applying to me and only me this game.

Why the double standard? You've been in games with scum!Rubicon and scum!Koalas and scum!Snowvon and scum!fonti - are you saying they've all unequivocally done something out of their wolf range?

Why are you applying this logic to scumread me but failing to apply it to others?

---------- Post automerged at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------

Koalas, please stop trying to chain lynch town!Proph -> town!dLGN

 

I'll keep this (refreshingly) brief but:

1. I wasn't quite sure what a 'soft lynch' was and didn't want to vote and put it into that range (or very close?) if I didn't know what it was/did. Also I didn't have a townread on fonti at the time, nor knew too many of her opinions on people besides storm and proph, more or less. Would be pretty tough to go into the next day if Proph is a miss having to evaluate fonti and those who voted with her.

Now I do townread fonti (to the point where I don't see myself voting for her this game, as much as she'll hate me for saying that) and also know what soft lynch refers to (my assumption was correct but I wanted confirmation), and my reads are pretty solid to the point where I'm comfortable and don't see that changing unless there is a surprisingly flip or another wagon pops up.

2. A little but not much. But I will say that I'm looking most closely at Proph/Snow/Jan/Rubicon right now. If there aren't at least 2 in those 4 people I would be shocked and probably will lose. I wanted to see how Jan reacted to Rubicon's post without influencing that too much. Afaik he didn't? I'll recheck in a bit.

---------- Post automerged at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

Oh and I forgot to say that while I didn't have a townread on fonti per se, I did agree with her case on Proph (though I need to evaluate Proph's latest content for sure) and was thinking similar things / often vote for those reasons d1, so I was totally comfortable voting once two conditions were met - knowing a bit more about where fonti was at, and knowing the implications of my vote, soft lynch, and possibly ending the day half way into it.

---------- Post automerged at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:03 ----------

In other news, I probably don't know the true definition of "brief".

 

Ok. So from what I kinda have gathered is that a lot of people suspect font if proplax is to flip town? I agree with the sentiment as well.

I..... I really don't have much else to add honestly I feel like a lot of people have kinda taken everything I have said already. :/

 

Who do you think is on Proph's team if he flips scum?

Who do you think is on fonti's team if Proph flips town?

 

So, this will mostly just be some stream of consciousness stuff. I'll try and summarize my reads after this soon.

I find it pretty interesting that the wagons in RVS boiled down to three on Snowvon and three on me. Not too relevant, but just interesting to point out.

Despite fontisian's repeated insistence that I came across this townread "too easily" I still think this reads town. It's a relatively weak point, but it was the first post that I found alignment indicative.

Shoot me for this, but I actually find that people who declare their towniness are somewhere around 80% likely to be town (and I know Newcomb fooled me about this in the last game he was scum, but I'm more confident on this based off of dLGN's experience which is why I asked him the question).

I like Delphine's attempting to try and hunt RVS tells.

I do think Jan is scum because of the mentioning the SK thing, but ultimately that's just a tell and not an actual mindset inconsistency. I already asked him a question in my other big post earlier, and I'll look into more of his posts as well.

LochNess pokes at Rubicon without a vote, but I'll give her a pass for it since she's new and newbies tend to be more conservative when voting.

Storm's #47 reads as somewhat passive, which dampens the townread I have on him a little bit.

fontisian:

How did you come to the conclusion that Snowvon is scum with like two posts of his?

The number of people who are just blindly following fontisian at every turn (Snowvon, Newcomb) makes me worried, but that just probably means that they aren't buddies together.

Storm's interaction with Newcomb probably does make them unaligned and reverses the #47 read I had.

My gut is saying Snowvon is town due to the Newcomb questioning? In my experience I've had similar RVS question sessions that went on but ended because they got fruitless, and this reminds me of one of those times.

Even though this is kind of IIoA, I still like the genuine tone this post provides.

Want to check to see if Delphine follows up on her questions.

Hm. Actually.

Delphine: Outside of getting a grasp on the playerbase, what were you hoping to get from these questions?

END OF PAGE ONE

Getting noticeably less since I feel like it's a bunch of meta talk/townreads talking to each other.

Reminder to keep track of Kai's Rubicon vote.

LochNess feels very genuine with her thought processes here, though I am a bit paranoid that she's the only one defending me/whiteknighting me and kind of only giving a half-hearted defense.

I am having difficulties reading font because she's stuck in her unreadable, one-linery state. I am actually unsure if she would go after me this hard D1 as scum? The thing that has me worried about her is that she's not actually questioning people, just listing out stuff. Unfortunately, the curt way she posted the case on me makes me unable to get any conviction tells.

I am actually unsure if the three votes on me actually come from scum? Newcomb, Snowvon, and Rubicon have all given me townie vibes. Which is really funny since it means the scum aren't being opportunistic at all.

Nearly confident I'm wrong about one of those townreads which means that I'll have to re-evaluate in the future, gun to my head says it's Snowvon. Though he did come to the conclusion that Rubicon is town, so he's at least mirroring my thought process.

I do like how KaiDASH keeps interrogating Rubicon, but I dislike his non-existant thoughts on the gamestate.

Delphine, can you explain more about this? Can you show me posts that tell you scum on scum interactions with Rubicon and Snowvon?

I mentioned this before, but I still think that Rubicon's lack of selfawareness on this makes him more likely to be town than not?

PAGE THREE

LochNess: Can you go into more detail on your Delphine read?

What happened to your Newcomb read, and what's your reasoning for voting Snowvon?

Yeah mostly right here I'm just glazed over reading these posts and not really commenting on them.

This thing also makes me paranoid because justifying a lynch for information over lynching scum is one of the cardinal tricks scum use to hop onto wagons.

I do like Snowvon's #294, though. Reads as logical in his game solving.

-----------

This is where I am at after finishing the one and a half hour long reread:

Prophylaxis
dLGN
LochNess
Rubicon
Snowvon
The Storm
Newcomb
KaiDASH
Koalas
Fontisian
Jan
Delphine[/quote]

dLGN has been trying to solve the game and had the "I'm town" thing at the beginning.

LochNess I am slightly paranoid since she's soft defending me without dirtying her hands of my mislynch once I flip town, but basically all of her posts read as genuine.

Rubicon has lack of self awareness and I agree with Snowvon that he would probably try harder as scum.

Storm I still think is town for the page 1 RVS stuff but that's pretty weak now. He's been basically absent the entire Day and would like to hear what he has to say.

Newcomb I think is town because of the resisting tunneling stuff but he's a good scum player. Reserve the right to re-evaluate first.

Kai has basically been fluffposting and doing nothing which reminds me a lot of certain players I know from my home site. He hasn't done anything explicitly scummy, but he hasn't contributed a ton either. Have no idea at this point.

Kalas's initial posts had me like him as town, but the "informative lynch" part makes me cringe and his reads after I flip town feel weird.

Absolutely no idea on font right now. The only thing that makes me wonder about her being town is if she would be gung ho in pushing a mislynch on me right off the bat, and I can see her misreading me as town since I'm not part of the DLP meta that she has an iron grip on.

Jan has the SK comment but most of his posts I've glazed over. I guess I can take a second look at them, but font's words ring true:

Delphine is mostly here because of a huge gut feeling. Her posts remind me a lot of my own scum game, where I ask (sometimes) relevant questions but don't actually use them to solve the game? Like, I get the sense that she's shotgunning a ton of questions, but she's not actually caring about the answers. As an example, here she asks a question to LochNess:

Loch then replies:

..and then Delphine never brings it up again. Outside of some specific incidences (like her questioning to me) this is a pretty recurring trend with all of her questions.

This is mostly a huge gut feeling thing though. Don't expect my wagon to be overturned but eh: Vote Delphine

So yeah, this is where I'm at. I daresay that my reads might be a little less accurate here because I get worse reads when I'm being pressured (I'm bad at handling pressure) but after reading through 300 or so posts of game relevant talk this is where I am right now.

I don't expect to overturn this lynch because, hey, it's font. So when I flip town, make every effort to figure out font's alignment since if she's town she'll have super accurate reads on the rest of the DLP crew and we will win the game. (Burden of Proof here, but I think her reads as town are so great because she knows everyone).

 

Haven't finished reading your wall, but

I resemble that remark.

There's nothing blind about how I'm following fontisian.

I'm doing it because I agree with what she says and because I'm reading her as town independent of agreeing with her, and even if I was just going to throw a dart blindfolded, fonti is objectively the best dart to throw, so to speak, so you're going to have to just

 

Honestly? I am unsure offhand. If i had to basically snap decide based on what i can recall offhand.

Font: Snow is town, you are town, jan might be town? I would look at rubicon more.

Proph: Font would near confirmed town (i got this nagging feeling she would do that as scum but someone can tell me what's the meta on that), Snow town? I dunno I would need to relook at his posts. Jan might cus of how he was? I dunno my mind is a mess right now.

 

I know that, was just pointing it out because I saw that you hopped on my wagon after font posted her case and how you agreed with her in that how I came across the Storm townread too easily.

 

I'll just address this quickly because it's easy but I use that line to open every single forum / real-time (EM) mafia game, as both alignments. You'll find it in all of the forum games I've linked (and the turbos I haven't), and I may have addressed that here? Or maybe not, idk, when I play with new people it usually gets pointed out.

 

Re the Snowvon question: I didn't have a read at the time. I was attempting to freak him out.

---------- Post automerged at 09:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

Also, ogi, ogi, ogi dLGN.

 

It's just to let people know when I'm around and that I'm reading, if not yet ready to post thoughts.

---------- Post automerged at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

(facepalm) (faceplam)

 

That point is a null tell then, but I still like your analysis/contributions.

 

Tieing it was intentional on my part

LochNess pokes at Rubicon without a vote, but I'll give her a pass for it since she's new and newbies tend to be more conservative when voting.

Storm's #47 reads as somewhat passive, which dampens the townread I have on him a little bit.

1)

As I said in #339, it's my intent to expand on my Storm read but I'm still waiting for him to answer something I asked like 30 hours ago.

2) Um, she said she'd be back from her test soon and able to post so I was kind of wanting to hold off on addressing this stuff too, but. First question is because I'd just meta'd her in the pregame and know her as a lurker. Based on what I got from that I also expected her to be more active as town. So I wanted to get an early baseline of what to expect. I was pretty excited to read her because I read a scum quicktopic of hers and felt like she had a similar personality in general to me as well as a similar feeling about being scum. So everything I have directed at her this game has been with that in mind. The point of the second question was to start to get more thoughts on the game from her without being too directive, because I got the sense that she tends to have an unnatural trajectory as scum. So I felt like if I could just get her to talk about what she feels is important, it would set me up to understand her later on. I also think I have a tell on how much she naturally wants to talk about her partners:townies so I've been deliberately not asking her about specific people. (Which is another reason why I didn't follow up on the question about her fonti read, plus fonti gave her own response and I was interested in letting them interact because I'm paranoid about fonti-coaching.)

3) I don't remember my exact thought process for this as much, but I talked to Newcomb on Skype like...a week and a half ago, idk, about (among other things) how he likes reading over his past games because he really wants to learn from his past games. So I was already entering this game with the question, how does his attempts to change his play interact with his behavior/how can I actually evaluate how he's alignment indicative. And so I did get the sense that his townblocing strategy was decided before he got his role PM, hence the phrasing, but I found it important to ask on the off-chance he'd say something I didn't expect since it's obviously crucial to his strategy this game. Even though he gave the answer I expected, I did get like the slightest of townvibes from his demeanor about it.

4) I think this one is clear?

5) I wanted to know if it was Jan (which I think was my assumption), me, or the thread in general. I wanted to evaluate the reaction test/what he was trying to do to see if I thought he was being conciliatory by giving up that info sooner than he intended, and so that was a starting point. His answer made me realize that he was prioritizing trying to get a read on me early because we have, like, a 15 minute game day of forum mafia experience from the night before this game started, which informs why he spent so many words on me early as well.

Response to your other thing coming.

---------- Post automerged at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 PM ----------

I wish I could edit out your words that I didn't cut correctly!

---------- Post automerged at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

For context: So I really like Snowvon as a human being, and I have too low of a sample size with him to not worry that I read him town just because I like his playstyle, so it was an intention of mine to pressure him early in some way despite not having a scumread on him. I also do have reasons for how it's phrased that I am not going to explain rn, but I get why it would ping your gut.

My only actual note in my QT is that I found them awkward and that they were possible "buddies??". I think the first thing is that they didn't really joke with each other at first or work on trying to figure each other out, which was super different specifically from a game I had just been looking at (Hannibal?) though also just from my general expectation of those two. von didn't follow up on talking to Rubi after just asking him how he was a little abnormal. And then Rubicon later brings up I think in response to a question that he is surprised certain players aren't talking to him more "(Snowvon, maybe Delphine?)" and I was kinda like, is my name just tacked on there to try to poke his buddy von? Oh, the other thing is that von seemed happy early so I figured that if he was scum that he was finding some aspect of it enjoyable. So the combo of the in thread stuff and the fact that he likes Rubicon + Rubicon uses his QT more than most people do was enough to make me note it as possible.

---------- Post automerged at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------

I feel like I'm trying to put words to it for the first time and so I'm not sure I'm being clear enough. I didn't know why Rubicon thought I would have anything to ask him considering he hadn't given any content. I guess I did post in the signup thread that I was excited to play with him, but the way it was phrased gave me the vibe of certain players being a hint to von specifically?

I actually don't remember if I knew at the time that scum had daytalk, either (I asked Citrus early in the game and he answered publicly whenever he did) but I kinda thought that Rubicon's call out of von for ignoring him was awkward in either case. But interpreted it as possible distancing/trying to make up for an early miss on good interactions, I guess.

---------- Post automerged at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

Did you catch my question?

---------- Post automerged at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

"I actually don't remember if I knew at the time that scum had daytalk, either"
^ there was a delay between when I got the read/when I posted it/when they started interacting and I don't remember when in that timeline I knew the answer to that

 

Delphine probably not. I can't sleep but I don't have much to say so *shrugs* you can ask again and I can give an answer but again I just not feeling it

 

I scumread you for other reasons, as i mentioned earlier.

I just don't see any townreads on you that have good reasoning behind it.

I think it is odd that Snowvon reads Rubicon town for not trying, when Rubicon was trying in hannibalmafia as town and died after 10 posts when he subbed into narutomafia d1.
Rubicons play in my book is closer to his scumplay at the moment, he would be number three in proph/newcomb/rubicon .. not as a team, but the three people i read the scummiest right now.

Your soft defense of rubicon that i mentioned 2 times now is one of the worst things you have done this game. It is the one thing you hated snowvon for doing, and then did yourself later on and noone cares.

Talking snowvon. The scumreads on him are interesting, because i think the 4am interactions he had should be a towntell for almost everyone who knows him. (or am i the only one that believes he does that exlusively as town?)
I do agree that his overall presence outside of that was not that towny, that's why he is not a comfortable townread just yet. That is something to figure out tomorrow. (Considering that there is a case on Von and proph being scum together, the flip might be useful to determine von)

Koalas/Kai are the two people out there that are the least connected either way.