OK, For everyone mentioned please assume that I am responding to your (Most recent) Rants on this thread.

BioPlague, I definitely agree with you on a vast majority of your arguments, especially considering the fact that I agree most fervently with many of them as well as the Overall attitude of DLP. My previous Post was more to clear the air, and warn the rest of you in advance that I may not be the most intelligent of posters at all times. Don't like it, Bite me!

Xiph0: I quite agree, I and the rest of the newbies can adapt to the current setup, or we can go elsewhere, No coddling required. {Shudders} and please don't mention that... Other... Forum again.

Giovanni: As with Xiph0, I mostly agree. {Edit} I quite agree with your last post as well.

Amerision: Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't even try. (Not that your likely to care)

Swimdraconian: Yes, let us all Bow to the Power that Is DLP

Surarrin: ... What does the BBQ at the end stand for?... Actually if anyone can answer that one I'll be happy

Finally to all the poor bastards out there who can't be bothered to think through your own Opinion, Or are in any way offended or confused by the topics discussed here I shall attempt to summarize in words you can understand.

{Ahem}

Joo got PaWnZeD By teh L337z U n00bZ LOLZ!!!

{Smirk}

Feel free to flame me

Ps. deathtehfluffybunny I gotta Love the Sig

 

Like most people, I have an opinion, and like most of those people, it's probably something I should just keep to myself, anyways.

On any site that is open to the general public, you will get the less intelligent by necessity: not everyone is born equal, which is the shit line that they feed you throughout public elementary school. The difference between the stupid and the banned is that the banned are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

I've never seen a person banned on this site because they were purely disliked; there has always been a reason. Say what you like about individual administrators and moderators, but the overall quality of maintenance by the staff is very high, and by necessity too. It remains a haven (at least, for me; I don't speak for everyone) despite those that throw themselves at the doors.

DLP has a very well-defined audience; it is a haven for the intellectual elite, the aberrant, and the curious, those who - for whatever reason whatsoever - don't get off reading Harry/Ginny fluff. I have no problem with a stupid member joining and trying to find his way here, so long as he doesn't make the same stupid mistake twice. What I'm talking about here is the difference between stupid and banned. Read the fucking manual/rules, and understand the fucking rules. If you break one after you've read it, great - learn your lesson from the nice little red box under your avatar, and fly straight for a little while.

And there will always be a more stupid member and a more clever member, by necessity. It doesn't shame me nearly as much any more to admit that Xiph0 and Raven are significantly smarter than I, nor should it shame anyone that happens to be marginally less dim than I (self-deprecating though I may be, there are those people out there). I don't believe that anyone is so dumb that they cannot present an interesting viewpoint on something, nor do I believe that I am smart enough to just dismiss someone's post because it doesn't sound smart, or whatnot.

I don't think we should be nicer to new members. As far as I'm concerned, I think we're really quite pleasant to them: we let them register without any major hoopla, we give them virtually limitless topics from to pick from to make a first post, and then - if they don't fuck up - they can make a second, and god-willing, a third. What I do mind is a person who comes into an old topic, resurrects it with no good purpose - with inexcusable spelling, nonetheless - and breaks about 20 rules in the process. Speaking as a person who is intimately in touch with his inner newb, I can understand not reading rules. I didn't do it when I first joined my first HP site, but if you're going to have the gall not to read them, then you'd best check out a few posts first, otherwise you cease being purely dumb and become one of the elite members known as banned.

I do agree with whoever mentioned it, however, that the members that have tenured respect are way out-of-line. What the hell are you doing wasting your time to bitch out a dumb newb? You're sullying your name doing so. Give him a bad rep with a decent comment like 'Read rules. Don't necropost.' and move on with your day. Another lie they tell in elementary school is that 'if you ignore it, it will go away'. Not true, but if you ignore them, they start to wonder why they're being ignored, and they might start to get some idea. When you slap the bitch back for necroposting with a 'STFU, you dumb newb, and get off our forums!', you're inviting an ad hominem response back, and we get these idiotic things happening. Let the mods deal with the slimy bastard who dares break the rules, and go on with the topic. If it's necroposted, ignore it, and give the guy a negrep. The mods will deal with it. Insults don't help people; honest assessments help people, and there is a huge difference between the two.

Karma is a stellar idea. It's a tidy way of telling a person they're breaking a rule without having to mess up your thread and your name by associating yourself as a rule Nazi. Judging by the responses of those who have had a little red bar, it's enough to make you look at what you've done. Conversely, for those people who have decent rep, it's a way for you to be recognized for having significant contributions to the community. Those who have high karma can give out more, which is good: you want the people who know what they're talking about to give you rep. Honest assessment.

This is your cleaner, more intelligent example: don't encourage idiocy. Flaming is not going to help. You can tell people they're a jackass by making that little red bar become cupspeakian in size. If you flame, you deserve and should expect to get negative rep. Calling people names doesn't get us anywhere.

I'm going to summarize, to make this neat and tidy. If you're pissed off by the level of idiocy, neg-rep and go about your daily posting as if the problem hadn't happened. If you've got negative karma, find out why and don't do it again, otherwise you'll be gone. Respect is not automatic.

 

Uhh, Manatheron, other then finding out what BBQ meant, is there any point to that post other then 'agree' and 'mostly agree'? e_e

 

Rob: Um, Couldn't you have just posted the summery?

Nuebus: Yes, I had to Summarize for the intellectually Impaired.
(In other words No, Not really. But then they've been repeating themselves for a while so I thought I'd get in on the fun!)

 

And that is partly why I don't post as often as I want to. I obviously can't make myself clear enough.

I never said we should open up to slash. I certainly didn't mean that; the absence of slash and H/G on this forum is one of the main reasons for my joining. I said we should re-read our own rules before yelling at a member because their favourite story happens to be a Slash one. I don't want to change DLP's rules. I want to get back to them.

I couldn't agree more. What I meant was that we shouldn't bash the person because they mentioned H/G as a pairing in their story. We should bash their story because it sucks. I recently reviewed a H/G fluffy story, which was horrible in my opinion, and I was pretty harsh. But I didn't call the author a 12-year-old retard.

That is also why I wasn't too comfortable about posting here. You're certainly better placed than I am to judge of DLP's identity; however, for me, DLP is first a fanfiction forum, and one of the only ones where you can get brutally honest but constructive criticism.

I do care, because when someone take the time to re-read their posts for grammar and such, they usually realise when they've written stupid things. Also, it's much easier for me to read a post with correct (I didn't say perfect) grammar than struggle through a bunch of words without capitalisation or punctuation. Also, I see typing correctly as a mark of respect towards others, as old-fashioned as it sounds.

What I meant is that simple rules such as these should be followed no matter what; that's not a complicated thing to avoid double-posting, and anyone who double then triple-posts deserves to be called a retard. But the H/G bashing and slash hating has become a reflex; the mere words slash and Ginny seem to awaken some DLPers' darkest instincts and turn them into bloodthirsty hyenas (I apologise for the crappy metaphor) and sometimes people need to be more careful about it. They go even further than the rules allow them to go. Same thing about the bashing of new members looking for fics; hell, you even smacked me in IRC for opening my mouth in a similar thread, when I should've shut up. I edited my post and that was it.



I'm all for saying most of us earned our place here. If I survived the Office, the S&P poetry, Vash's happy harrassment and Xiph0's obsessional jokes, honestly, everyone can . I was careful, and I was able to stay. Some are way braver than I am and do not fear the eventual bashing, and they contribute to that forum much more than I do. They're often considered as the DLP elite, even. On the contrary, a newbie who is a bit shy or thin-skinned should be allowed to make mistakes at first. Everyone make mistakes. They can reveal themselves to be reasonable people with a valuable opinion when they get a little bolder.

After the third or so "mistake" and repeated warning, though... let the bashing begin, I'm certainly not against it.

Fuck you

 

Edit: Tinn didn't understand so...

 

And that was roughly what I meant by 'happy harrassment and obsessional jokes'... Lol, Merrill.

*marvels at the pointlessness of her post*

 

You know Bio, for someone who is all for bashing newbs 'cos their posts aren't up to scratch (as some would say) and don't meet the rules, you sure do have a habit of breaking them yourself.

Good thing I'm all for the forgiving attitude.

 

I agree with most posts made till date. (I read through each and every one btw).

I want to say that "Shit Happens". A newbie trips and gets beaten for it. When I got here, within 2 days of my 1st post I was ranked 2 places above Cupentard in rep. I was jonesing for the banstick for 4-5 months. I made the mistake most of the new members are making. I jumped into the forum without a second thought. Unlike a few people I didn't lurk around the site to get to know the mood of the members.

But I waited. Talked to a few members around here, and went with the flow.

All I am saying is if the newb cant take a bit of harassment (within limits ofcourse) because of a mistake he/she made and tough it out then it's mostly probable that the person wont survive/like their stay in DLP.

Maybe we should have a section where the newb is redirected every time they login. This section ought to pop up the DLP rules to them.

Also it can be made so that the newb wont be able to post for atleast 1 week after registering. This will most probably cut down on the double posting and necroposting as such.

Also, we can have a compulsory reading of The Office as an initiation .

 

So basically DLP is a more ruthless version of Social Darwinism. If your posts aren't coherent and intelligent you should be prepared to be flamed and ridiculed.

 

Basically yeah. People learn through their mistakes, well most of em do. Like when you're young and you burn your hand because the fire looks pretty, you learn not to do that until you're older and want to set your hand on fire via the medium of aerosol and a lighter (Always be near a sink when you do that - its a bugger to put out by waving your hand)

If we were all perfect from birth, i.e. knowing perfect English, having 'perfect' opinions, there wouldn't even be this forum. People would all be the same, so we have to expect different kinds of people to come here - be they slashers or, god forbid, H/G fluff writers. of course we can get rid of them as soon as possible but we have to be prepared to see them in first, cause they might have some good stories under their belts.

The same goes for intelligence, no one is omnipotent (is that the right one?) and not everyone has the same opinions on topics. I myself am generally anti-American (mostly the Government but just listening to fat, idiotic, American talk like fog horns in the middle of Durham gets on my nerves like nothing else) and have expressed my views on the Bush Administration and general arrogance of the US many times. A bit of bad rep ain't gonna stop me, but it does show me when to stop ranting (I tend to lose focus a bit ) and to look back on what I've said.

If new people can't learn from their mistakes then they will probably be nominees for a Darwin Award in the near future, so no worries. The universe has its way.

Aekiel

EDIT: I realised I lost focus again, just goes to prove my point though

 

I'll be frank. I orginally wrote a hostile, bitter, angry, post. Then I realized something. This site is completely free, and apparently the admins/establishment are happy with the direction its heading.

That's entirely their right. As someone I know PMed me, I am a guest here, and I don't have the right to get indignant.

This is your site. I just hang here. I probably won't participate in any bashing, but its ultimately your collective call. If it gets too much, I'll just stop posting.

I won't be mentioning my disappoint with the change in the site's culture again.

EDIT: One last thing, I happen to have read fics with a 40 year old and teen sex. Anyone who's read Harry/Bella, Harry/Narcissa, Nebokov's "Lolita" and Arthur Golden's Pulitzer Prize Winning novel "Memoirs of a Geisha" has read it. (Geisha portrays it as truly romantic. Lolita has Professor Humbert Humbert as more of a rapscallion )

 

Sure you do - unless the person who sent you a PM was an admin or a mod, then they don't have the right to tell you that. You are just as much a member as anyone else, and it is the members that determine the site culture, not the admins, though they regulate it. So if you as a member dislike the way other members act, then your dislike is just as valid as their opinion that what they are doing is right.

Indeed, it is the site's collective call - a call that you are a part of. Opinion seems to be pretty much split, but it is obvious from this thread that there are plenty of people who agree with BMM, myself etc. The site is making that collective call - for the bashing to stop.

If a newb joins and makes a mistake - say for example double posting - and some older member flames them for that. What authority does that older member have to do this?

They aren't a mod or an admin - surely if the mods and admins care then they would have done something about it, or if they haven't got round to it yet will do something about it when they arrive. The flaming part is completely unnecessary.

As for the admins/establishment are happy with the direction the site is heading - I won't name names but I received at least one admin agreeing with me on my post above.

 

It's vastly different when you're the consenting 16 year old, reading a story/writing it as opposed to a 40 year old, reading/writing it.

And I don't see anyone disagreeing with what Raven, proposed. Everyone's just added their own spin to it in some form. Chuck is probably still hinting towards the PP3 incident that both Raven and Vash supported, with Raven saying it should have been handled a bit differently.

 

Yes, Bio, but then you would deprive the world of "Lolita" one of my favorite books, (Vladimir, you dirty, deceased, old man.)

(Not to mention "Harold and Maude," Ashby's masterpiece, "Oedipus Rex" Sophocle's brilliant work, although he's a teen fucking his mom, so that has all sorts of other issues...)

Speaking of which, could you imagine anything like Oedipus being written today? Or Hal Ashby getting a studio to produce "Harold and Maude" Although the teen is 18, but the woman's in her LATE 70's, so....yeah. Squickie (but brilliant.)

Anyway, Taure, I've voiced my opinion. It provoked some anger. I have accepted that the pervading view on this site is, "Charlie, SHUT THE FUCK UP!" So that's it. I have no interest in undertaking some Sisyphean task with the hope of changing the people on this site. If they individually decide to change (or the admins do) then the site will, if not, then I have no interest in being the person who brings about a revolution on a Harry Potter site.

So that's my stance.

 

In Greece, it was perfectly acceptable to have discrete relationships with 12 to 13 year old boys. Times and attitudes have changed.

DLP.net supports various things that are taboo, nonetheless - just not 40 year olds writing relationships between a character we hate - Severus Snape - and the wife of our main man, Harry Potter, who is 15. Heh - we wrote the Office, didn't we? A big difference is that Kinsfire's stories are an attempt at seriousness in the fandom. That's his right, but it's also mine to think he's a fruitcake. That that's the mainstream belief, the PP3 incident happened without too much fallout.

Seriously, Chuck - you keep saying "I'll stop" but you've proven with each successive attempt to rehash this shit and tell us what our position is, that you can't. Let it go.

 

Its done. Its over with. Bio, Yarrgh, Chuck: Pull the tampons out of your asses, PMS season is over with. Shut the fuck up. Im tired of this. Every time I come to the forum someone is complaining about the admins not doing this and not doing that. Fuck you, faggot. I volunteer my time here, who the fuck are you to tell me what the hell to do?!

You dont like who we run the site, get the fuck out. Thats final.

Im locking this thread. You have a problem, PM the staff and deal with it pivately. I see another thread like this (Xiph, Bio, Yarrgh, Chuck especially) and fuck raven and Middy; im banning your ass. Enough Whigning.

 

This thread is always going to be an endless circle with people (basically) saying "I'm a 'soft' DLPer" or "I'm a 'hard' DLPer". The original premise to the thread was good but now it's just pointless rep-gathering.

All I've got to say is that some sheep have got to be careful because Amerision's on the prowl

 

Aye. What's turned me off of the site for the past few months, is the attitudes and the eagerness of folks to just be utter dicks. That, coupled with ppl running off at the mouth on IRC, then they're your best bud when you're online, not realizing someone else has sent you chatlogs, rather irks me as well. It seems like simple disagreements turn into absolute hate now, and it's fucking stupid.

We used to just haze a few of the newbies lightly, alittle more if they acted really stupid, then gradually prodded them to where they grew out of acting stupid or making kneejerk reactions, and became a welcome member. Rot's a good example, as he said above, most of us wanted to kill him early on.

Now it's gotten to where it seems folks just want to argue and act superior to each other. Sure there's still alot of talk, but I can't stand seeing two posters in a thread, and I KNOW they're going to go at each other the first time one of them makes a statement that could somehow possibly be taken as offensive.

I'd like to say it's a result of canon and fanon bombing out for the most part, and boredom, but *shrug* who knows.

Brutal honesty. It's what we used to do. Now it's bash it b/c the other higher ranking folks are bashing it. I'm not one topull any punches, I'm not one to coddle folks, but the site went from me being one of the harshest reviewers/smacking down of rules, to members taking it upon themselves to bash for rule breaking, and just dogpiling bad fics. You can only moderate so much before you give up and just let the dogs at each other throats after awhile.

Quoted for agreement


Let me make something clear. I don't agree with Raven about handling things lighter, I'm all for smack the piss out of the kids and make a few examples to get the rest to act normal. I've been very busy since right after the Vbull. switch, looking at doublwe work shifts, 2 hours at home awake a day type stuff, so I can't speak for why somethings have gotten so out of hand.

All I know is I have a week off of work paid right now, and woe betide any of you dipshits that had it coming to you, but didn't get it due to everyone else being busy too.