Yeah. I never got a good vibe from that scene but we're not meant to get a good vibe from Snape because as JK says, he was never good. Which is why is disturbing to see the fandom creating alternate-Snape where if only those Maurader's were nice he would have turned out alright. He wouldn't have.

 

I mean, you can contextualise every behaviour relative to the experiences preceding it. If Snape had been raised better, if he didn't meet Lily at that point, if he wasn't bullied etc. Petunia already shows she's judgemental and a gossip/spy herself, though. JKR and Pottermore always frames her behaviour relative to her jealousy and bitterness at Lily's powers, not bad experiences or losing Lily. I don't see what negative consequence Snape meeting Lily had for the series as a whole? If anything, him asking V to spare Lily is what created the scenario to allow her to sacrifice herself.

Remus convincing J&S to let Wormtail join them is a big one.

For context...he was nine. We also know that JKR talks about his affection for Lily positively, so it's coherent to say that that framing's from Harry's perspective, since at that point he still think Snape's a DE. Those are pretty colourful descriptors for eyes and expressions. And yeah, he was watching her, which is probably because he wanted to be sure before revealing himself in front of a muggle, which is why he reveals himself after she does a big piece of magic. Even if he didn't...socially awkward nine year old. He openly tells her he was watching her, so he didn't think it was something to hide, and she didn't react.

Petunia insulted where he lived from the get-go. And as for not seeing how she acted...we do, because it's right there. She visibly longed for Lily's magic. When Snape revealed she was magic, she immediately ridiculed it (though she probably would have believed it if it was her revealed to have magic, which is what's implied, since she spies on them later to hear what he's saying.) When Lily starts spending more time with Snape, she tries to manipulate her and tell her Snape's lying, out of jealousy. 'I can't have it, so you can't, he's lying to you'. And yeah, you're projecting intent devoid of context onto his actions. Snape knows/thinks Petunia is jealous and trying to manipulate Lily. He saw her order Lily around. He says 'you and me' because even though Petunia dismisses it, she's a witch, just like she dismisses that he's a wizard. It's amazing that you're pushing this all on Snape when Petunia is the one stated to be jealous and who tried to manipulate Lily.

And...I have no idea where you're getting that his thoughts of her were solely sexual? As opposed to her being his first and best friend, who defended him for years? Also assuming that his political beliefs were uniform throughout their relationship/his teens, especially since he, seemingly proudly, refers to his non-pureblood status in his chosen moniker, unlike people like Riddle who try to hide it. And, you know, he cares about her cause once he realises he fucked up.

Not sure where you read JKR saying that. She supports statements like:

She always frames his bad actions relative to his experiences with abuse/tragedy.

 

You're ignoring the fact that in that entire scene Lily showed that she didn't want to give Snape the time of day either.

Just because Snape called himself the "Half-Blood Prince" didn't make him any less of a bigot. For in that same scene he says:

Don't forget that Voldemort went after Harry because he was half-blood.

In the very next scene, Snape and Lily are laying in the grass and Petunia is spying. When she's found out, Snape goes:

It appears he has already laid claim. I hate to stick up for Petunia, but Lily is her sister. We know she's not, but she could have been there out of concern.

When Petunia insults his clothing, Snape tries to take her out with a branch.

Then when they're in the compartment, this is the conversation:

The next scene is of them discussing Avery, Mulciber, and Mary McDonald, a muggleborn. Here he shrugs off whatever Mulciber did (according to Lily it was Dark Magic) as nothing but a laugh. But it wasn't so funny when Sirius sent his ass to meet Remus in the shack, but I digress

In the scene outside the Gryffindor Common Room, Lily says:

Then he went on to take the Dark Mark.

So before Snape meets James and Sirius, he's already hurling "muggle" around as an insult. He's already attacking people with violence. There is no need to assume his beliefs were uniform as they are written there in the text.

Petunia wasn't mean to Lily until they went through her stuff and Snape hit her with a tree branch. From the text, it can be gathered that it was Snape's idea to read that letter.

As for what JKR says:
JKR on Snape

I have a hard time believing she supports those statements you mentioned, particularly the one about James as that goes against the "our choices, not our experiences, are what truly defines us" message of the books as well as her protagonist.

 

From a few pages ago, where she also discusses Snape and makes no mention of the maurader's treatment.

 

I don't think he's an inherently bad person, he was a guy who suffered loss/abuse in nearly all phases of his life and that's a tough pill for anyone to swallow. I think he's more or less the anti-hero of the series.

Thing is, after I read the 7th book and saw his memories, I understood his nasty disposition better, but it didn't change my mind about his character. He's a complete dickhead and a miserable prick who seems to delight in pouring his self misery onto everyone else. This might sound not very well thought out, but I always wondered why Dumbledore let him get away with being like that. Let's not pretend he didn't know, it's Dumbledore we're talking about.

So his love for Lily was essential in Harry defeating Voldemort and that's sort of a trump card, but it doesn't absolve him from being an asshole.

 

Kingpin truly loved Vanessa.
Does that make up for all the crimes he has done?
Absolutely not.
Even bad guys has loved ones.
And Snape didn't love her enough to leave Dark Arts or his 'friends'.
I can't really blame lily for leaving him.
Snape redeemed through his actions after he joined Order.
Snape redeemed himself through his death not through his love for Lily.

 

Well justifying snape is like justifying stalker, so yeah it didn't make it better.

 

I think it's fair to say that while the Marauders going after Snape probably didn't do anything to help him go down the non-jerk path, it was still Snape's choice to be an asshole. Let's face it, having someone who gives you a hard time in school and having some trouble with his home life isn't some unique thing that only Snape has ever had to deal with.

Basically, he might not have had a choice about some of the trouble he went through, but he did have a choice in how he handled it. Snape chose to deal with it by being a bitter jerk who enjoyed inflicting petty cruelties on the students under his control. That choice says a lot about him.

 

I definitely agree. I think it's hard in fanfic to find a good mix of Snape being on the good side but not being a very good man. The argument is thrown around a lot that he had to look as if he hated Harry to keep his cover, but the extent to which he goes is clearly more than is necessary, given that he tries to get Harry expelled and rather blatantly despised him. He was on the right side in the end, but I certainly wouldn't name my kid after him. Maybe the family pygmy puff.

 

Good and bad deeds don't "cancel out". Snape doesn't have to be evaluated as an overall good or bad person, with his morality represented by one number. He loved Lily enough to suffer as a spy in order to protect her son, but also abused that same son as well as all his other students ("I see no difference" is verbal abuse, and there's no excuse for Neville being more afraid of him than of the Cruciatus). He was bullied by the Marauders, but also harmed innocent people as a Death Eater. Helping Harry and Dumbledore doesn't redeem his earlier actions, but it does add something admirable to his list of accomplishments.

 

Snape's love for Lilly definitely doesn't excuse him for the bad deeds that he had done throughout his life, but adds a complexity to his character that makes us readers sympathize with him more. I already sympathized with him after learning that the Maruaders bullied him throughout his time in Hogwarts, but after learning that he was in love with Lilly and that his prime bully became her boyfriend, I can better understand his hatred for James Potter and understand why he joined the death eaters.

 

Snape isn't a sympathetic character regardless of how much JKR wants him to be. He is a vindictive and spiteful man who takes out his anger on children. He may have loved Lily but that doesn't come close to making up for his negative qualities. Frankly, his feelings for her 11 years after her death are creepy. He got her killed by telling the prophecy to Voldemort. THe could have warned her about Peter or told her to get out of the country. Instead, he ran to Dumbledore after she died. James may have bullied him as a child, but he also saved his life from Remus.

Didn't Snape owe James a life debt for this? How could Snape get him killed then?

 

I don't think Snape regreted or wanted to make up for his 'bad deeds'. He isn't some sort of reformed man - I suppose using dark magic, killing muggles and making hell of peaple's lives were still appealing to him, even in the end(or would you like to be his pupil? It would take more than delusional author to make him, realistically, like and recpect someone). Of course, we can look at him and say "poor Snape, he just wanted to make some friends with Deatheters, alone and scorned boy', but that doesn't change the fact, they were the same sort of guys like him.
Snape's sacrifice is result of long-lasting obsession with Lily. Oh, he loved her - really endearing, but hey! love isn't always fluffy emotion like it's showed in romance novels. It can be dark, obsessive, possesive and completly selfish. And I think it's what Severus have felt.
His sacrifice? As far as I know he didn't it because he wanted to became good man, light wizard, atone or mend his wrongs.... No, he did it for Lily - became extension of her will (of sorts) and drove Dumbledore's plans to end and make sure Lily's son lived (as far as he could - but I don't think he really cared since he was dead before oath could kill him).
Did it make him 'better' person? I don't think so. You can make bad things from good reasons and exact opposite. But in the really - most of people's actions have nothing to do with notions of god or bad(unless you are priest? Sev wasn't, even if he and many other wizards dressed like ones) and Snape doesn't hit me as especially philosophical or moral person, so why even are we discussing it? I'm sure I get similiar topic from my teacher some time ago(well, I make everything to confuse her saying I don't care in the same time, but what is the sense of doing it here? I would like rather know the sense of this thread's question. I wouldn't dare to guess you are writing essay, dear author.)
So to answer directly - Snape's love wasn't related to his 'bad deeds', as emotions are rather personal part of humans, so could't make up for them. Only way to really make up for something is take responsibility or/and fix it. And he didn't do any of this.

 

In my opinion its not important if Snape's love was enough to overcome his mistakes, but whether he actual felt remorse and tried to make up for his mistakes. Obviously, he felt horrible about the death of Lily, but didn't hold any problems with causing Harry trouble as a kid or the death of James, along with whatever else he did as a death eater. However, despite a little look at his past in the Deathly Hollows we don't know much else about whats going on in Snape's head. While i believe that by the end of the series he was on the right path, there is not enough known to make a solid decision about if he made up for his bad deeds.

 

I think it makes him not evil, but good - no.

He is not a good person, he maybe did the right things out of a very selfish yet altruistic (is something you do out of love something you do for someone, or something you do for yourself because it makes you feel good?) reason, but that doesnt turn him into something or someone good.

He is a tragic character, but i dont think a "good" one - which is what makes him interesting in the first place. (although why so many smut writers find him so incredebly erotic ill never figure out)

 

No. He caused the death of many people, directly and indirectly, and only changed sides when the violence affected him personally.
Even that showed his obsession with Lilly to be deranged, she was a girl he knew as a child who he screwed up his relationship with, he could of tried fixing things later on rather than asking the Dark Lord to spare her so he could do /undefined/ to her.
What would have Snape done next if Voldemort had spared Lilly and killed Harry successfully?

 

Snape did not love Lily, he was just obsessed with her. Regardless of his good deeds in the end, he was still a petty vindictive asshole.

 

Yeah, no.

Fun fact, most serial killers had a sob story and background, does that excuse them from murdering people in some of the most horrendous ways known to man? No.

I get where you're coming from though, but knowing one's motivations to their actions still does not excuse them from treating generations upon generations of children to horrible teaching and blatant bias against them? No, it definitely doesn't.

His *ahem* love for Lily may have been real, but was targeting her son, the only thing she left behind in the world after her death, a way to show his love for her?

TL;DR, No, Snape's love for Lily does not make up for all his mis-doings.

 

No, but his double agent work redeemed him in my eyes and in Harry's eyes.

 

Redemption is overrated frankly.

The man was useful and he helped win the war. Like TheGreekLady said that earns him my and Harry's respect, if not affection. His love for long dead women is irrelevant.

You don't have to like people to recognize their worth.