Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc

 

Well, not that I support it, but it has fluctuated somewhat throughout his history.

Besides the "Do I have the right to kill people" and "If I start can I stop?" questions he wrestles with, a compelling reason for him to not kill is that it's preventing law enforcement from cracking down on him as hard as it potentially could. As Batman: Mask of the Phantasm showed, as soon as they thought he'd started killing they went full bore on his ass. I don't know what the reasoning might be for that not being the case in those incarnations where he does kill.

Anyway, I argued from day one they were putting too much in the movie, so I'm not surprised to hear it doesn't hold up in that way. I'll still go see it, for watching the action in a big theater at bare minimum.

 

I legitimately sometimes could not hear what he was talking about.

EDIT: Same with Bane in TDKR.

 

I actually liked all three main heroes, Wonder Woman in particular (largely, I suspect, because they didn't even bother trying to 'set her up', just letting her be there and do stuff and be mysterious). Affleck was fantastic, imo, and I've always liked Cavill's Superman even though I disliked Man of Steel.

Aside from that, though, this post pretty much nails my opinion on the film.

First off, holy murderballs Batman. We had jokes about how the Batman in the Arkham games was just killing people left and right and being sheltered by Alfred, but this reads like the writers saw fan backlash to Superman taking a life and saying, "fuck it, let's give them something to really rage about". He doesn't even pretend to try to minimise loss of life, he's just going Michael Bay explosions on everything in sight.

I didn't mind Lex's goofball act initially, but it slowly became clear that it wasn't an act, he really was the 'kooky mad scientist' which was disappointing. He wasn't even an eccentric 70's type villain, he was just, as above, a knockoff Joker. There were hints of real menace on some occasions, but for the most part I found myself thoroughly underwhelmed.

Ironically, I think the movie suffered partly from too much setup and partly from not enough. I don't think we needed to see as much as we did about the other 'metas', the logos would have sufficed, in comparison we definitely should have gotten more than hints (which only fanboys would pick up on) about Apokolips and whatever was going on in Batman's head.

In part due to the extensive setup devoted to both Luthor and Batman (most of which I feel was largely unnecessary), the pacing of the film suffers tremendously. For the first, what, two hours? Nothing happens. There's politics, and Lex plotting, and politics, and Bruce plotting. Then we have the fight scene, then we have the fight scene, then we have the fight scene, with barely anything in between. And then the film just... ends. One of the major problems with MoS, and they repeat it here by just ending the film after the fight and setting up JL (badly, might I add - "I have a feeling", what is that?).

I did find it amusing how they went out of their way multiple times to specify that the fight areas were unpopulated, so as to avoid the same critique of loss of life that MoS got.

 

It's Batman versus Superman with Wonder Woman thrown in for good measure with Luthor, Lane and Doomsday as well. I fucking despise Zack Snyder and I think he hurt what could have been a great film in Man of Steel, but I'll probably watch this once or twice just to support the DCCU and get the ball rolling. Marvel draws me in for Cap and Panther, but I want to see the DC guys up and running.

 

I was entertained. Could have been better, but could have been much, MUCH worse. This makes me worry a bit less about how they're going to make Justice League.

I have really enjoyed going back and reading the initial reactions of people when Affleck was cast as Batman. Holy crap, people were pissed.

 

Still waiting to see the film though opinions and reviews appear to be similar to MoS. Some love it, some hate it, but overall it hardly lives up to its potential.

The discussion about detective Batman made me realize that now is a perfect time for WB/DC to do a proper Dark Knight TV show. Not something like Gotham or Arrow, but something similar to Daredevil in quality only with B:TAS insight into the characters.

 

Just got out...

I don't know what to feel. I'm not sure if it was a great movie or terrible one. The intensity of it all just completely through me into an emotional ringer.

Imagine condensing all phase one marvel movies including the avengers into three hours but remove the lighthearted parts. It's intense.

All I can say is intense.

Justice League has to be...needs to be...lighter. Not necessarily in tone but in story. This movie was beyond oppressive...hopefully it's the Dark before the Dawn

 

Remember when it was announced that Heath Ledger would be playing the Joker? Yeah, I'm getting flashbacks.

 

Who tf was the guy Bruce was talking to in the Waybe tower in Metropolis when the building came down. He kept screaming dad, but not 5 minutes before ma and pa Wayne were shot. This bothered me through the entire movie.

Overall I liked the moving. Pacing was a mess, but it was okay. MCU hands down still remains best at it. I liked the fight scenes. Lois is miscast and I will go to my grave saying that. Her soft voice and that bright red hair takes me out every single time she's on screen. I did like the cameos. Those were boss. Especially got a kick out of the future Flash time traveling, which will probably fly right over the heads of most audiences. It was the middle of the movie which was kinda random. Should've have been a post credits scene.

 

BvS went with a gritty tone that was pretty oppresive, I didn't expect a movie that 'dark'. I can see the appeal in some parts of it, but by the time two hours were gone the movie seemed to drag on, right before the Doomsday fight. The fight wasn't good, it wasn't clean per say, far too much stymulus at the same time.

Lex was a toned down Joker, not someone that I'd like as Superman's nemesis. This version was dangerous and clever, yes, but IIRC Luthor in the comics is more about assuming his 'rightful' role as the Man of Tomorrow than taking down Superman because he fears him. More ambitious and resentful than afraid.

The movie also counts on some beforehand knowledge from the spectators. DC is blowing its load early, perhaps in a way to differentiate itself from Marvel? If it is, they didn't do a good job on it.

 

He was screaming 'Jack', the guy's name, presumably.

The problem is there was too much which would go over audiences' heads. The time travel should have been expanded on, as it stands it's just a weird dream sequence. So much about the parademons and the Omega in Bruce's nightmares, and Lex's ramblings about 'the god is dead' just seem out of place. It's an odd thing to say about a film that arguably suffered from too much setup.

Last night I was wondering to myself what exactly it would all mean, and I was able to rationalise it quite easily. We see that the world is pretty unaware of the existence of metas, but that they are around. It's possible that Darkseid's taken an interest in Earth, but the only thing he sees as a potential challenge is Superman, so he takes steps to subvert both Lex and Bruce in order to take him down. He wouldn't act against WW or the rest because they've been hidden from humanity, so he doesn't know about them. Flash could be travelling from the future trying to warn Bruce of Darkseid, but unaware of how far back he'd come, so it sounds like he's warning Bruce of Superman - except that never comes into play again either. Hell, it's even possible that Bruce's nightmares are actually some form of psychic connection that MM is trying to forge, like he does with Superman in the JL opening episodes.

The thing is, all of that is inference based on what I know of plots like Justice League: War and the DCAU. The vast majority of audiences aren't going to think about the events and actions in that way, nor would they even know the dots to connect. We don't see Lex with a Mother Box or talking to Granny Goodness, we don't see Bruce trying to work through his nightmares, we don't have anything akin to the sequences with Loki and the Other to put any kind of detail to the talks of this monster in the dark waiting for Kal to die. The movie feels like it lingered so long on the unimportant stuff it, ironically, failed to actually set up all the things it's been criticised for sacrificing plot coherence and pacing to set up.

 

The way I saw it, Batman's killing was justified by the fact that he had spent over 20 years stopping criminals, only for Robin to die to the Joker for his efforts (where he says criminals are like weeds). There's also a scene early on where Alfred tells Bruce that powerlessness turns good men cruel; coupled with the fact that Bruce said he wanted to leave a better legacy behind (killing Superman), it seems like Bruce got tired of leaving criminals alive and that he felt rushed into trying to accomplish that goal as soon as possible, moral code be damned.

 

I'm saying this as someone who hasn't seen it, so obviously take my comments with a pinch of salt, but it doesn't matter how they justify it, a Batman casually killing people isn't Batman to me.

 

If I wanted to see a movie filled with explosions, I'd go watch a Micheal Bay Transformers. So much action and too many characters pretty much ruined the film for me.

And Lex Luthor feels like a loony bin patient rather than a super villain who manages to become president.

 

Thank you! I needed some subtitles for like half the dialogue.


And I agree with you that it lingered too long on unimportant stuff instead of setting up plot. Like that scene with Clark and his ghost dad was so extra and felt like a deleted scene.

 

70 in his favor or not?

 

"Centric" indicates that it's in Batman's favour, yes. Now I posted that while reading a few reviews but having not seen it, what's the general opinion? Does Batman get that much more screen time?

 

Just got out from seeing it. I'd say far more Batman action, but not necessarily 70/30 in favour of Bats. If you count Bruce Wayne doing detective/training montages then yeah, more toward that. 60/40 in favour of the Gotham Bat.

Edit: And, personally, I could have waited for the bluray on this one. Sloppy editing, trying to catch up to Marvel, and just inconsistent.

Edit 2: Thinking on it, I get the feeling Snyder might have wanted this to be entirely a Batman film. It's much better at being a Batman film than a Superman one. Feels like he wanted to direct Batman, but was told only if he shoehorned some spicy Justice League into the soup. Too much chilli in the soup!

 

Affleck should direct the Batman movie