It's important to make the distinction between Fiendfyre and Gubraithian Fire.

Fiendfyre has a powerful curse on it that means it can destroy enchantments. That's a purely magical effect. We have no evidence that the fire itself is physically special beyond that curse: no evidence, for example, that the fire is especially hot, or long lasting.

Gubraithian fire is everlasting flame and it is presented as a unique, powerful and extremely rare accomplishment. It would rather undermine that if Fiendfyre shared many of those properties.

If someone started fiendfyre in a Muggle area, I imagine it would have largely the same effect as if someone started a non-magical fire. It would just so happen that any magical objects or enchantments in the area would be destroyed - not something the Muggles would notice. They would notice, of course, the fact that the fire kept taking the shapes of animals and chasing after people.

 

I think we can take from this two things: one, that water doesn't seem to work on Fiendfyre as effectively, and two, that the fire does spread faster than a normal fire. Even the fastest wildfires seem to spread at the range of 10-15 mph, with fast winds behind them, but Fiendfyre was able to outspeed a sprinting human in a closed room.

 

The passage is not conclusive. People really underestimate how rapidly real fire spreads, and here we're talking about an airy room full of dry old wood and paper.

That said, obviously the fire spreads more rapidly than normal fire. This was not contested. The passage in question doesn't conclusively show it but you can kinda reason it out from the mechanism of action: normal fire doesn't turn into animals and run around leaving fire in its wake. What was contested was a) that fiendfyre doesn't need fuel and b) that fiendfyre will burn indefinitely. Those are features of gubraithian fire.

Further, I still think there's a lack of evidence regarding fiendfyre being hotter than regular fire. The water thing doesn't show much, because that happens with regular fire too. Try throwing a bucket of water into a giant roaring furnace and watch low little it puts it out. All you'll get is steam.

 

There is also the fact that the junk crumbled into soot at a touch from the flames. That's not exactly conclusive evidence either, of course, since the junk was probably magical, but it does make it more likely that the fire burns hotter than a regular flame.

Either way, of course, I think we can agree that fiendfyre is at least more dangerous to people and property than normal fire, given that it moves faster and chases people, and also that it can be apparently controlled and placed strategically. Used properly, it could be very devastating, and would cause additional panic in a muggle setting.

 

My headcanon has Fiendfire sort of consume the magic in the things it burns. Without the magic it's just regular fire. So setting Fiendfire on London won't exactly work.

Also, being magical, wizards don't want Fiendfire near them.

 

Acromantulas are just sentient spiders. Dementors on the other hand, well, we just don't know enough about them. I'm guessing no. I'm not certain they're even "alive".

 

This theme was explored in Abraxas by Brennus. Won't be spoiling anything for those who haven't read it, but I really recommend it, this is quite possibly his best story yet.

Personally, I'd think the wizards would win. Even considering the fact that the wizarding population is relatively small, they would still have magic, something the Muggles would not have. Plus you consider the fact that they are able to move around much easier (Apparition).

Though, the one thing in favour of Muggles is the use of nuclear weapons. However, if the wizards are able to dismantle them by magic, it's pretty much game over.

 

Get all the wizards to cooperate on a massive Fidelius Charm, concealing the fact of existence of nuclear weapons. Problem solved.

 

Muggles can't just nuke wizards anyway. Wizards live in the midst of muggles, so they'd be killing their own people and land. It'd be pretty stupid to hit a nuclear weapon on London just to get at the Diagon Alley or the Ministry of Magic.

 

All you need to brew a war between Muggles and Wizards is one wizard or witch to side with them/coerce/imperiuse/whatever. I suppose it would be in some sense still wizards vs wizards, but muggle technology would be put in use.

 

Why do wizards have to counter nuclear weapons? Unlike magic, technology does not have some imperative that only allows a human born without magic to use technology, it's open source on the species market. Anyone can use it, even wizards who could easily turn any weapons around to bombard the muggles with.

Basically anything a muggle can do, a wizard can do, if not enhance to better versions. Nuclear weapons aren't a muggles savior, they are a muggles destruction. Nuclear weapons are far more of a problem for muggles than wizards, short of nuking the entire planet simultaneously.

This assuming it ever reaches that stage of all out war, as previous posts have mentioned it would only reach that stage if wizards allowed it or it was a preemptive strike, or if there was any single reason to go to war for in the first place beyond religion, because it won't be for resources.

It would only continue at that stage of war if there was prearranged muggle cells separate from each other with zero knowledge of any other cells existence. Short of suicide of the people who arranged it, that would be quite difficult to do. But wait, even the dead have no secrets with the Master of Death walking around. (Not inferring the dead must speak the truth, just saying that even the dead can be brought back in spirit at least so suicide isn't a foolproof option.)

Muggles could create a special taskforce with foreknowledge of magic, but what exactly would that entail? I'm interested because I would like to see what peoples ideas are with countering magic even with foreknowledge. The only advantage foreknowledge of magic has that I can tell is information or a preemptive strike, and considering even information can be taken from you... I don't really see what a special taskforce can do. Unless you completely exterminate the magical world in one swoop without giving them a chance to gather or counter, even a taskforce is screwed. And the chances of exterminating the magical world in one swoop are slim to fuck all.

The only real savior for muggles if a war did break out, however unlikely as previous posts have pointed out, is that the magical world has alot of muggleborns that aren't just going to sit aside while their families burn. But that changes the debate, it no longer becomes wizards vs muggles (or more aptly put by Taure, vs technology), it becomes magic vs magic again.


tl;dr Since wizards can do everything muggles can do and use everything muggles can use, however the reverse is not true, that leaves muggles with only one single advantage that wizards cannot replicate. Numbers, and shitloads of cannon fodder.

Well I suppose they could replicate but that would take awhile, and you would be too busy replicating to worry about a pointless war.

 

Because many wizards have shown a complete disdain or complete ignorance for anything muggle. Yes, in theory they could do anything a muggle could do, but would they?

 

That's a different debate. You're going along the lines of how would wizards go about versing muggles, I'm posting about what each side would be capable of.

If you want to go along theory than each side theoretically could walk off a cliff and the other could be a victor. How each side goes about a war would be subjective and will just keep going around in circles and different viewpoints.

Capabilities wise, there is just nothing a muggle can do that a wizard can't that doesn't involve them having superior numbers. Not that's not a significant advantage in itself, but it's the only main advantage they have that I can see.

 

Wizard vs muggle society

I'm not sure if this should be posted here, so please correct me if I’m wrong. I've read a fic by Delphi (http://archiveofourown.org/works/934602) which had a discussion of muggles that I found really interesting.

" "That's...spurious," Severus declared. “We have intelligence. We have intelligence and magic. Ergo, we are superior.”


“Do we?" Kettleburn asked. "Certainly we have sapience. But I wonder about the rest. Who’s your favourite author? Your favourite artist? Musician?”


Severus hesitated.


Kettleburn laughed gently and patted him on the arm, using the opportunity to steal the cigarette back. “You’ve just outed yourself as half-blood or a Muggleborn, you realise. You’d only say Celestina Warbeck or Schwartz if you’d had no exposure to Muggle art at a formative age. But once someone has heard Beethoven, or the Beatles, or Mistress Simone here, they cannot in good conscience claim that we can make art. Our art is terrible. We have no inspired fiction, no paintings that live beyond animation spells, no music that can move anyone half-discerning to tears. We have sapience, but we do not have creativity.” "


i was just wondering if anyone agrees? The wizarding world does not seem to have a very defined culture of its own, it just appears to be a model of the muggle one, just a few decades behind. Do you think wizards are simply slower than muggles, that because they have always had everything just happen by magic that they lack the innovative to progress and develop as a society?

 

Like Halt above, I disagree. Not only are 11-17 year old usually preoccupied with themselves first and foremost, doing their business of trying to find out who they are and what they want, Harry is not your usual 11-17 year old.

Harry is, from a very young age, preoccupied with survival. Those who are preoccupied with survival don't tend to visit art displays, plays, musicals, or concerts. What use would either of these have in keeping oneself alive?

In the midst of the usual teenage problems of self-indentity, sexuality (though Harry doesn't appear to have too many issues with that one), and being overwhelmed by their emotions, Harry has to deal with a Dark Lord out for his posterior and the dangers that come from that. Possession, the Graveyard, the entirety of the Triwizard Tournament, having a price on his head, seeing his mentor die, seeing his friend die, etcetc.

Even if art was very prominent in wizarding culture, why would Harry focus on that, with the amount of stuff he has to do? I know art didn't enter my personal world until I was 22, and I had many less problems than most teenagers my age do.

The little art we are shown through Harry's perspective isn't very good, admittedly, but when I was his age I thought De Nachtwacht (by Rembrant Van Rijn) was shit.

 

Also, how do we know that Celestina Warbeck doesn't hold a candle to Beethoven? For all we know her music is supernaturally good, like the Veelas' dancing was supernaturally appealing.

On top of that, the use of magic allows for all sorts of art that isn't even possible in the Muggle world right now (or ever). One can imagine all sorts of ways that magic can be used to create aesthetic experiences. Imagine, for example, a "transfiguration artist" who can turn people into trees and back again. That surely has artistic merit of the highest level. Muggle artists have to use language to allude to what it is like to experience the universe in different ways, wizards can actually do it.

The fic sounds like a typical Muggle wank.

 

None of that is canon. And we're talking about canon here, not about the delusions of a fanfic writer. The series wasn't centered around cultural consumption, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hermione, the precious muggleborn, not once makes a reference to muggle musicians or authors that she likes. Does that lead you to believe that she doesn't know any, or that there aren't any muggle musicians or authors? This entire passage is wizard bashing at its worst.

 

To be fair her singing is always described as warbling, which...generally isn't flattering, especially when used for a human. Not to mention all the characters except Mrs Weasley seem pretty sick and tired of her, though that could be down to her canonically having sung exactly one song.

On the other hand the Weird Sisters sound completely fabulous and probably drive plenty of older witches to pearl-clutching

 

Has the magical community evolved continuesly or is it pretty stagnant?


The muggles are constantly evolving and getting better and better at what they do, are the wizards doing the same? Many of the day to day of wizards that is decribed in the books could have happened hundreds of years ago, how new or old are the teleportation devices and spells, how new or old is the ability to regrow bones or reattach limbs?

Is new and better magic always being found and put into use or is the "power level" (its over 9000) of the magical users stagnant while the power of the muggles steadily grows?