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WIP Harry Potter and the Prince of Slytherin By The Sinister Man - T

Discussion in 'Almost Recommended' started by iamnotreal, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    Now I absolutely demand an explanation as to what's up with Lockhart.
    First, it seems very forced that his fate is the exact same it was in the canon books. Second, no one basically kills himself if he doesn't have a really good reason for doing so and I have no idea what that reason could be. Third, it's a pity he's gone. He was one of the best characters of the universe.

    I somehow don't think this year will be ended within the next chapter.

    EDIT: Oh, and the spiders were really creepy.
     
  2. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    I think you interpreted this wrong.
    "Lockhart" we met is either the "dead" auror (many things point to this) or the auror is red herring and he someone else, my shot being Regulus. The first option is logical conclusion based on scattered hints, the second is logical conclusion based on author's love of the twists. Anyway, "Lockhart" caught real Lockhart who was like the canon one. Then he took his identity, probably using polyjuice potion. When it was no longer convenient to masquerade as Lockhart, "Lockhart" imperiused him to admit to his (and not only his) crimes and wipe his memory so he won't checked for inconsistencies.
     
  3. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    I am fairly sure he's the dead auror, because the other thing simply wasn't really hinted at.
    Your explanation is certainly a sensible one, however, I don't think it's the only one possible.
    First of all, I don't think polyjuice was ever hinted at (at least not for Lockhart to use it), so my theory is that the auror and Lockhart got in a fight, the auror won, but one of those amnesia spells did go horribly wrong which is why the auror's mind is now trapped in Lockhart's body.
    Hm, sounds stupid put that way, but I still don't think it's completely unrealistic.
    Polyjuice also seems unlikely to me considering the author loves to show how creative he is. And "DADA teacher polyjuiced" is not exactly a new idea.
    I thought (especially because of the obliviation Harry willingly agreed on) that Lockhart's secret he told Harry was so bad that he simply saw no other possibility than doing this. And we would get to know that secret within the next chapter, when those four minutes will be revealed.

    That's why I am quite curious - I don't know if he will manage to make this explanation a believable reason to Lockhart's suicide.

    Provided, of course, that I'm right. Which I'm not sure of in the slightest. Of course, he could also explain why he was using Lockhart's appearance to become a Hogwarts teacher.
     
  4. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    But auror was hinted at too much. My red herring sense is tingling.

    Fair enough about polyjuice and I agree that amnesia spell gone wrong sounds rather stupid and I doubt that author would do that. Metamorphagus is even less probable. And I'm out of ideas.


    I still doubt in suicide, I have high enough opinion on author to believe that he won't needlessly kill characters when they stop being useful as plot device.
    I believe that he is searching information about Tom.
     
  5. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    To be fair, Ron having the diary was also hinted at very often and it still happened.

    Me too :D Let's be surprised by the author.

    I'd normally say that too, but ... isn't it possible that the spell proves to be curable after all?
    Ah, whatever, we'll see about that.

    I don't think so tbh. How should he know that Tom was about to be in school in a diary? I think it's more likely that it had something to do with all these different projects, most importantly Mysterioso.
     
  6. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    Well, my twist paranoia might be too paranoic.

    I probably should've used Voldemort here to avoid confusion because I meant the person, not the diary horcrux. If anything, he would be looking for horcrux left in school - so diadem.
    "Ah, so not only am I the Heir of Slytherin, I'm also the elusive Tom Riddle come to Hogwarts for some nefarious purpose. That's actually a very amusing theory, albeit for reasons I'm afraid I cannot currently share with you." combined with the fact that he gave some informations that are probably relevant to current crisis suggest that he at the very least know something about Voldemort and probably his horcruxes. That was my main
    reason for suspecting Regulus.
     
  7. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    The book excerpt was fail (if I didn't overlook anything) - that's not how English was spoken 600 years ago. Apart from that, if such a source existed within the Hogwarts library, why is the Basilisk a legend and not a well-known fact? Especially if there is such a detailed story about its creation.
    That no one tries to kill the Basilisk seems strange as well - was there any explanation for the killing course not being used?
    Apart from that, I liked the memory despite it not really revealing anything.
    And the finale is such a mean cliffhangar.

    All in all, eagerly awaiting Engame Pt. III (or whatever the next chapter will be called).
     
  8. JErosion

    JErosion DA Member

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    It will probably be end game pt3

    I will say that it is nice that this particular version of Tom Riddle is a massive threat, he has taken out most of the threats to him. And if he is overconfident enough he might not even check to see if Harry was in that room or not. Now whether or not he knows that Harry is a Parsel Mouth, I guess we will know next week
     
  9. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    Riddle's keikaku being dori was great. But the book was such terrible cop out. Here is the Slytherin's monster, supposed legend - described in great details along with alternative de-petrification method and a way to defeat him. It's in old edition of known, and still released book and nobody knows this. There is so many questions here, relating to who should know and who can control this defence mechanism and even with some roundabout explanation about magic making people forget, it still will be disappointing.
     
  10. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    Err ... what? :D
    No idea what that sentence means.

    Apart from it, he might relate the amnesia concerning the book with the amnesia concerning Tom Riddle but I agree, it's highly doubtable he'll manage to not make it seem far-fetched.
     
  11. Absolutista

    Absolutista Fifth Year

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    It could be argued that it was the first edition of the book, older editions change, get stuff cut, added, etc. It might even be legendary to some, given how Prince treats it. Not saying it wasn't a disapointment, though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  12. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-according-to-keikaku
    I need to remember that I'm not on anime related site.
    I also posted my thoughts in the review and in following PM exchange Sinister Man said that Ministry censorship is responsible for covering the Slytherin's achievements, basilisk aming them. I'm not sold on the idea.
     
  13. JErosion

    JErosion DA Member

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    Well the ministry has been shown as being intrusive, with redacting information with spells and the forcing of individuals into service. Even in canon you had Fudge leaning on the The Daily Prophet. Information suppression is something that could be expanded for the 3rd year or this story.

    While the book is an info dump, it is possible that some information is considered no longer relevant or to be trusted. Given the first edition of Hogwarts a History is dated 1485. (@Dicra yeah English wasn't the same then as it is now, but lets face it if Sinister Man wrote those parts in Middle English. He would have to repeat himself with a translation into modern english and then you'd have people accusing the author of padding his work, or showing off how smart he is) The Knowledge of Slytherin's Contribution of an Anti-siege weapon to Hogwarts, could have been removed because of the family's role with the Spanish Armada a hundred years later. Its a propaganda tool, remove the accomplishments of your enemies.
     
  14. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    Thanks for the translation and the information Sataniel

    As it is now, nothing's really changed by the author's explanation. It still stretches my suspension of disbelief to no end that no teacher (not even Dumbledore) except Lockhart thought of at least skimming the first version of "Hogwarts - A History" for more information.


    @JErosion I'm not familiar with Middle English, but wouldn't it also be quite hard if not impossible to read a book that old?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  15. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    But the book is in the library, you would assume that someone like Dumbledore have read it and remembered the info about powerful guardian basilisk.
     
  16. JErosion

    JErosion DA Member

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    @Dicra Ive seen some samples of Middle English, it is possible to read some of it and understand what is written in some sentences, but more often that not your going to have no idea what is being said. Some words used then have no direct translation to in the Modern english.

    Early Modern English is much easier to read provided it is written in a clear font, also hearing it spoken it's fairly easy to follow along. Its one of the more interesting parts of that movie The Witch.
     
  17. Sataniel

    Sataniel High Inquisitor

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    Relevant fragments from PMs
    The Sinister Man: Obviously, I didn't get this point across well in the chapter, but the reason no one looked in that book is that it's the 1st edition, which kept locked away in the Restricted Section because (a) it is a priceless historical treasure and (b) it predates the Ministry's 400-year-long campaign to minimize the importance of Salazar Slytherin while slandering his character. No one had any idea that the Basilisk was a part of the castle's defenses because it hadn't been used for that purpose in at least eight centuries and because it had been edited out of more recent editions of Hogwarts: A History over the last several /centuries/.

    Sataniel: Yes, it's and old book and I didn't expect people to randomly searching in it. But I expected Dumbledore to read it. And I expected knowledge to not be completely forgotten. That really was a step down from what I came to expect from this fic. Especially when the same chapter had glorious execution of Riddle's well thought master plan.

    TSM: Sometimes important knowledge is forgotten. And sometimes important knowledge is deliberately suppressed by an overintrusive Ministry which then, over the course of centuries, forgets about what it's suppressed and why. Dumbledore probably has read multiple editions of Hog:His over his many years. But what you're suggesting is the equivalent of him taking the time to gain access to and memorize a Guttenberg Bible just on the off-chance that some important bit of scripture is different from the KJV bible he was given when he was a kid.

    S: I don't agrree that the existence of giant magical monster guarding school is something he should remember. Especially considering that he is occlumens and you established that they have eidetic memory. There is also a matter of other students accessing library. Ministry probably can kill any publications that praise Slytherin too much (and their authors if they're too troublesome), but there should be some info circulating. Unless there is some crazy magical blockade that were reason to use a memory lock.

    TSM: We may just have to agree to disagree on this. My point is that it's not unreasonable to think that Dumbledore might never have come across this particular passage of this particular book about a topic that hadn't been relevant since the Middle Ages prior to Tom Riddle coming along. Tom may or may not expand on this when he gets his monologue on, but the timeline basically works like this.

    1000 AD - Slytherin creates the Basilisk and a secret chamber to house it until it's needed to defend the castle against invaders.

    Sometime in the 11th Century -- Slytherin leaves for Spain. He and other Founders die off.

    11th Century to 1485 - Wizarding Britain civilizes to the point that it is terribly unlikely that Hogwarts will be put under siege by an invading army. 1st edition of Hog:His is written and describes Basilisk basically as an impressive feat of magic but also little more than a historical curiosity.

    1588 - Inheritance Act passes. Every British descendant of Slytherin changes their name. Official government policy is now to disparage the memory of Salazar Slytherin as a bigoted dark wizard. After this point, all future editions of Hog:His will omit any official information about the Basilisk.

    1943 - After 350+ years, the actual story of Slytherin's Basilisk and the secret chamber it rested in when not used to defend the castle morphs into unsubstantiated legends about Slytherin's unidentified Monster and the "CHAMBER OF SECRETS" in which it rests until it eill come back to kill the Muggleborns. Tom Riddle finds out about Basilisk and invents fictional "Heir of Slytherin" as part of 1943 plot to be expanded upon either next chapter or the one thereafter. Riddle's plot is aborted after Myrtle's death, with no one knowing for sure if there really was a Monster or a Chamber of Secrets.

    Hope this helps explain things.
     
  18. Absolutista

    Absolutista Fifth Year

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    It's does, sort of, but come on. It is Dumbledore. Surely he would want to get his hands on such a priceless book, he is the Headmaster of the school, afterall. And the author brings eidetic memory which would mean that Dumbledore would certainly remember this book or at least mentions on it. If he does, I'd be willing to bet he would seek it when the first Chamber incident took place.

    Thing is the book is a (weak) Deus Ex Machina. No point in denying it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  19. Darthlawyer

    Darthlawyer First Year

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    No i don't agree with this assesment. It's very realistic that knowledge even important knowledge is forgotten.

    Dumbledore is known to make mistakes. The mistakes he makes in canon don't get focus from Rowling but they are many. In Fanfiction his mistakes are more clearly pointed out. Why can't this be one of them?
     
  20. Dicra

    Dicra Groundskeeper

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    Would help to have a sound reasoning behind these mistakes, as those in canon mostly had. This mistake simply hasn't got that.
    He most certainly knows there are earlier editions of Hogwarts: A History. He also should know of the ministry's censorship concerning everything done by Salazar Slytherin. Now, when someone that claims to be Slytherin's Heir unleashes a strange force upon the school, you'd at least expect Dumbledore to seek after forgotten knowledge like this.
    He didn't do that, I still see no reason why he wouldn't do that, therefore his "mistake" is an unexplained one, therefore bad plotting on TSM's part.
     
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