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Under-appreciated aspects of Harry Potter

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. Xepheria

    Xepheria The Benefactor

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    A drinker of unicorn's blood may or may not undergo spontaneous nuclear decay at any given point :abduct:
     
  2. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    No no no, they're already undergoing nuclear decay, they're just going to wake up one morning and find out that half their mass has turned into a pony.

    ...holy cow, what if that's how unicorns reproduce? Enticing people to drink their blood, then causing them to decay into new unicorns
     
  3. Nerdherder

    Nerdherder Squib

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    If that is how unicorns reproduce I wonder how they can still be considered "pure and light creatures".
    I think we should have seen more spells being either created or modified. Snape designed spells in his youth so why ddont we hear about all of the spells other students have created in their time at Hogwarts? It seems like their should be dozens of spells being created within a seven year period.
     
  4. Lunanight

    Lunanight Squib

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    I suppose that unicorn blood represents the dark aspect of purity, seeing as being pure and being good aren't always the same thing. Though usually pure means pure good. The unicorn itself is pure good while its blood when drank by someone else is pure evil. While the actual definition of dark magic in canon is hazy (between all Jinxes/Hexes/Curses being varying degrees of dark magic according to JKR, along with the fact that the Unforgivable Curses are a legal grouping rather than being a special magical trinity), I think any spell or potion that affects the soul could be considered dark given the nature of souls.

    As for the spells, I always believed that spell creation was something that not everyone was able to do. I think we as readers forget that the average wizard is far weaker than we believe, given how there are several Ministry officials that can't even do shield charms according to Fred and George. Then Cho said that she never stunned anything before joining the DA, even though Cho would have learnt Stupefy in her 4th/5th year when Lupin/Crouch Jr was the DADA Professor. Even the grading system suggests that the wizards we see are above average since the passing grade is Acceptable while the grades that we commonly see the characters get are Exceed Expectations or an Outstanding. Ron or Neville is probably the closest we get to seeing an average student.

    So Snape being able to create loads of spells does not automatically mean that it was a common thing. Aside from Snape, we don't get many examples of creating new spells (though most notable is Morsmordre and Voldemort's Unaided Flight Charm). Luna's mother even died because she tried inventing spells but, due to being too inept, it backfired and she died so spell creation could have deadly consequences if done wrong.

    For example the spell might backfire on the user if something went wrong (e.g. Ron's Slug spell from CoS) and have fatal results, or if the spell damages the caster's body/soul/mind unlike every non-Horcrux related spell (e.g. if its extremely dark, even though spells which drain the user's body/mind/soul as a cost would conflict with the canon dark arts), the spell cannot be reversed since a counter-charm/cure hadn't been made (e.g. Crabbe using Fiendfyre without knowing the other spell to stop it). Even if it was a common thing, those spells might not be made public. Harry (and us as readers) only ever learnt about Snape's invented spells because Harry just happened to get Snape's old textbook from the pile. If Harry never found that textbook, we wouldn't know that Snape made several spells. So if wizards did create spells commonly then they never made it public and so those spells were never made mainstream.

    Harry being the viewpoint character limits the world we see since we only know what Harry knows (with exceptions countable on one hand). When Harry learns about something (e.g. what Azkaban is during CoS or most absurdly in GoF that Voldemort's followers were called Death Eaters), we also get introduced to these concepts. So if Harry (or whoever's point of view any chapter is focused from) doesn't learn about something, we won't unless its from Pottermore/Twitter. For all we know, other professors (e.g. McGonagall and Flitwick) invented spells but we just never got to learn about those. Or Ollivander might have experimented with new spells when testing wands. Maybe some of the Death Eaters (e.g. Bellatrix) came up with some new forms of dark magic. Or Voldemort could have invented more than just Morsmordre and the Unaided Flight Charm. Surely Dumbledore must have invented at least one new spell (teaching the Order how to make their Patronus talk doesn't count since Dumbledore didn't invent the Patronus) There are quite a few possibilities when it comes to spell creation so most times its handled in fanfics tends to come from canon-compliant headcanon (e.g. the headcanon doesn't directly contradict the books or Pottermore).
     
  5. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    In my experience? Carrying a crowbar and waiting a decade for some third act closure.


    Seriously, though, I could imagine being cursed like that would just generally make your existence thoroughly miserable. Food never tastes as good as it should, smells aren't as vibrant, the warmth is never quite warm enough. Humor and good cheer escape you. Your clothes never feel like they're sitting correctly. Day to day life is filled with constant sensations of itches you can't scratch, hunger you can't sate, thirst you can't quite quench, and the pervasive feeling that something is missing but you aren't quite sure what.

    Any maybe if there's a table leg nearby, you'll stub your toe on it.

    In general, I imagine being "cursed to live a half life" is to live a life that always feels miserable and incomplete. It won't kill you, but the life you get will never be a fulfilling one.

    Quirrel was already dying as a side effect of the possession, which was why he was drinking the blood in the first place, and he didn't last long. What life he did have was unlikely to have been filled with happiness. Likewise, Voldemort didn't spend long in the body that actually physically consumed the blood, but he'd spent the last decade being miserable.

    Of course, Voldemort was already living a half life because neither he nor Harry could truly live while the other survived. Harry couldn't just live his life because Voldemort would never have left him alone and the death eaters' goals ran counter to pretty much everything "happy" in Harry's life. Voldemort couldn't live his life because he simply couldn't let shit go, and Harry represented all of his failures. Not to mention that he was too afraid of dying to ever enjoy living (there's probably a lesson in that sentence that I won't be able to apply in practice).

    What they were left with was mostly down to mere survival, until one of them got permanently planted in the dirt.

    In a lot of ways I suspect the unicorn curse is a lot like the prophecy: It doesn't have any more power than that which is assigned to it. If you're the type of person who would kill a unicorn and drink its blood, you're probably already going to be a miserable person as a simple matter of course, with or without curses.

    Lawful and Good are separate concepts, and Good isn't always Nice.

    A creature that reproduces by transforming its killer into a being of light, after said killer has consumed its lifeblood, could be considered to be sacrificing itself to perform an act of purification on a being who is almost indisputably evil for having killed and partially consumed it in the first place.

    In that hypothetical situation, it would be creating a good creature and removing an evil one. Some would say that makes them even more pure and light than how the unicorns are portrayed already.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  6. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Just because something went wrong doesn't mean she was inept, if it's as difficult and dangerous as you say.

    Actually, Ron's spell worked perfectly well. It just backfired because the wand was broken.

    We hear that Hogwarts is the premier institute of magic in Europe or the world, or at least one of three schools that are predominant in all of Europe. (Not proven in canon but pretty well founded I think.) Even an average student there would be well above average for the magic community I think, considering that not everyone goes to Hogwarts. And wouldn't that just be shitty to have magic and not be able to learn it properly because of money or talent, and having to work in a society where everyone can bend the world to their whims and you can barely do your Kwickspells...
    Ah, peasants, the lot of them.
     
  7. Gerplex1

    Gerplex1 Muggle

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    Delay type spells like Hogawarts protections, Magical medicine, wards for protection and spells/potions that increase physical and mental attributes (Ravenclaw's Diadem?).
     
  8. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Headmaster

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    A minor thing, from the movies. Perhaps simply Alan Rickman's decision to portray him like this, but whatever.

    Prisoner of Azkaban, Lupin's turned into the werewolf. Snape has just woken up I think and starts in on Harry (been a while, can't remember exact details). He hears a snarl from behind, turns and sees the werewolf. First thing he does? Pushes Harry, Ron, and Hermione behind him. He hates Harry, and is none too fond of the other two, but his first instinctual reaction is to put himself between the monster and three thirteen-year old children. Just a little thing that makes me think that although Snape was a major dick who took out his anger on innocent children, might not necessarily be an irredeemable human being.

    Still a dick, though.
     
  9. Myrrdin Emrys

    Myrrdin Emrys Disappeared

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    Shields. Maybe a full body shield? Or a specific sticking shield charm. Could save many people from ending up as rotting carcasses on the stone cold floor...
     
  10. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    By shields you mean Protego, no?

    Enchantments are mentioned to wear off over time, and the only thing worse than not having a permanent sticking shield is having having a permanent sticking shield that doesn't work when it's supposed to. Not to mention that there's zero indication that you can cast Protego on a person, and the spell that's most likely to leave you a rotting carcass on the stone cold floor utterly ignores the shield charm.
     
  11. Myrrdin Emrys

    Myrrdin Emrys Disappeared

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    Yes, Protego is the one that I meant.

    And by a sticking shield charm, I don't mean an enchantment that never wears off, nor an enchantment that doesn't ever go down, we have seen 'Fianto Duri' covering a huge area, (The grounds of Hogwarts), so it isn't really that implausible that a shield could stick to a piece of clothing, and even if it doesn't last for that long, or doesn't stop more than a couple curses/hexes, it would be helpful in a scenario where you're fighting against multiple opponents.

    As for the 'curse' that leaves you as a rotting carcass on the floor, I meant that as a phrase, and was not referring to an unblockable curse, e.g. 'Avada Kedavra'.

    Hope that clarifies. If it doesn't be sure to reply again.
     
  12. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    A spell covering a large area does not mean it can be stuck to clothing or even people. How does that even follow? Protective enchantments like Protego, Fianto Duri and Repello Inimicum conjure a barrier between two points/around a space, and there is nothing that suggests that barrier can be added to physical (well, solid) materials or projected from a keystone or woven into armor or whatever.

    Now I'm very sure there are enchantments designed to be cast on objects that would give them magical durability and/or reinforcement against magical attack (Something like Impervious is designed to be cast on objects, though it only has a relatively weak repulsion of physical items as far as we know). But those enchantments are not shield spells.

    And I get that you were using it as a phrase; my point was that if you're so concerned for your life as to be wearing hypothetical Protego-laced armour, you're likely going up against people who are going to employ the killing curse. Like, I don't see how said armour would help against your average dark lord.
     
  13. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem Auror

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    ...Did you forget the Weasley Twins' line of shield clothes?
     
  14. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    Interesting and under-appreciated aspect of Harry Potter 5) Limits on Magical Objects
    I think this gives us a really interesting view into Harry Potter magical objects. When you cast a spell on a magical objects, that spell is (normally) limited to the object itself.

    I'd never really thought of it before but it matches what we see. Harry Potter has a invisibility cloak, for example, not an invisibility ring. The former has the charm limited to object. You become invisible by wrapping yourself in the cloak. The latter would be extending the charm beyond the object. I think this is a big part of what makes Harry Potter magic, so, well, magic.

    As the above example shows, it is possible to expand the charm beyond the object but doing so seems to make it wear out quicker.

    This also ties in to the shield hat example. Unless the hat just protects your head, it is going to wear out fairly fast.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  15. Myrrdin Emrys

    Myrrdin Emrys Disappeared

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    As Atram Noctem pointed out, there was the Weasley Twin's line of shield clothes. I get the idea that you misunderstood me when I said 'Protego is the one, yes.' What I meant by that line is Protego-like spells. The whole idea of the thread is to bring into the light things under-appreciated and/or were not discussed at all. If a wizard could develop a shield charm like 'Protego', then they could create a specific shield charm to stick to clothing like a shield.

    And you would almost never have the chance of fighting an 'Average Dark Lord' as you put it.

    The purpose of me even mentioning 'Shield Charms' is that they're not expanded upon as much as other spells. For example, there are about 7-ish exploding/banishing like spells e.g Confringo, Depulso, Expulso, Reducto, Confringo, Bombarda and Bombarda Maxima,

    Would you rather wear a charmed piece of clothing that protected you against some cutting spells like Diffindo and Lacero, both cutting curses, or would you die from those?? These are supposed to give you a fighting chance in battle, one which if used properly, could possibly save your lives from a low-mid level curse flying towards you.
     
  16. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    Is there any evidence that they cast Protego on their clothing line, or is it just the wiki running away with itself?

    Like I said, I'm pretty sure there's a Castus Protego Whenus Wornus spell somewhere, but nothing leads us to believe you can cast Protego on an object and have it do anything other than, well, make a barrier between you and it.
     
  17. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    Orrrr I could buy a dragonhide jacket.
     
  18. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    Speaking of underrated aspects: magic itself. Or rather, the whimsical, almost fairytale nature of HP magic beyond a bunch of relatively recently invented pseudoLatin gibberish. How Lily could invoke a magical clause so powerful that her son's hands burnt the face off the host body of the undead spirit of his would-be murderer, for instance. And personally I think the anthropomorphic representation of Death *could* have spoken to the Peverell brothers, if not actually crafted the Hallows himself (like shit, there's an afterlife, supernatural beings are hardly a stretch).

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
     
  19. Myrrdin Emrys

    Myrrdin Emrys Disappeared

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    I'm afraid that whatever I do to explain it to you, you don't understand. I should work better it seems. The spell doesn't have to be 'Protego' just like I said in the previous reply. It could be a variation of the spell, or an entirely different one.

    By me saying that yes it is 'Protego' I was talking about, I meant spells like Protego.
     
  20. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    I was not, in fact, responding to you.

    I did respond to you, on the topic of magically armored clothing; feel free to respond to that.
     
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