I think you're (the OP) confusing two things: writing based on characteristics of people you know, and self-insert: insert one's self into story.

The former, I think, is what everyone does; you don't write in a vacuum. For instance, if you're writing Hermione, you imagine partial reaction of some bookworm you knew/know. Or somebody with very 'proper' maneurisms, etc.

Now self-insert in the sense of completely (and honestly) basing OC on yourself might still be not that bad: you have to somehow compile you characters, and if you go with complete transplant instead of frankensteining your way through various attributes, who cares? Noone knows anyway, unless you point it out.

Complete self-insert as in pulling yourself into the universe (with knowledge what will happen) is usually shit, because it's self-indulgent fixit stuff, and boring at that.

The reason why self insert gets really bad rep, I think, is that majority of writers go for instant gratificiation - if they insert self or OC based on them into the fic, it's just for the win. They get they dream hunk, they solve everything, they are awesome and they will bring peace to world and end hunger and all wars and look, Draco in the leather pants oh my.

TL;DR: i think everyone transfers his self and friends to the story in the lesser or greater degree. But if the purpose is self indulgence (coupled with instant gratification people love), it turns to shit. No matter how honest you are with yourself there.

 

Now here's something that I don't think people realised, although I like how much discussion this topic has gotten. I don't mean that it's you with your memories, I mean your personality and life but in the world. However, what I get is that most people day that no they arn't inherently bad.

Here's the thing, do you live in England? Europe? Theb why would you, realistically, go to Hogwarts?

This is why I want to make a chalange based on this concept, to throw you and your own mind into the world with wherever you are. You can't know the story, because that's just self endlugebt. You can't go to Hogwarts in the 90s because, most likely, you weren't the same age as Harry.

Edit:

Ok if this isn't self-insert, then what would you call it if you based a story solely on your own life? The events of your life, your family history, and the people around you just transplanted into the wizarding world.

This is what I mean by self insert, litteraly making a story based on who you were and are, and fitting it into another writer's world.

 

That would be a semi-autobiographical work; not really the same thing at all as a self-insert.
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is an example of it, though it's the author's own world that he puts 'himself' into.

 

Harry was born 7 years before I was, so if I were to self insert myself I would probably end up at school with his kids. I mean, I could write that story, but it wouldn't be particularly interesting because I probably wouldn't make a good protagonist. I'm more likely to sit around reading all day than go out and have adventures.

Of course, part of the appeal of self inserts (for me at least) is taking someone with values similar to my own and then throwing them into a situation that comes into conflict with those values. It's why I like Naruto Self Inserts more than I do Harry Potter ones; the Elemental Nations are so vastly different from modern, Western life that it breeds conflict simply by the SI being there.

 

Yeah, that makes since.

As for the other thing, I've always written about OCs.... so their is a reason. I never realy found stories written about the characters form the original story all that intereting, at least those who arn't so different like MoR

 

Kogitsune, back to your question, I feel like that SI's in general aren't that bad. It's just that when an author self inserts a character in a fictional world, they tend to make themselves unrealistic and way too overpowered. They make themselves perfection. And this is why I don't like SI's in general. I mean, I would gladly read a story in which the SI is a modest human being that has faults. Not some glorified god.

 

That's basically what I think. You can't Mary Sue yourself to do what I want, you have to be realistic. Your self, your faulta, your life, their world. You see?

 

I feel the problem with saying that you can create a self-insert with a depiction of your own merits and faults is that we can't properly read ourselves in such an objective manner. A lot of the time we simply aren't conscious of our subtle character faults such as pettiness or slight irrationality. Even if we can see core character flaws in ourselves
(EX: Hubris), without the subtle flaws, the core flaws often come out in writing in superficial ways, weakening the characterization of the self-insert and the work as a whole.

 

I agree; a lot of people envision themselves in a certain way and place themselves in a certain archetype and that shows through in their writing. While not bad it can be a bit cringey to read.

 

I actually have come to enjoy self inserts as guilty pleasures much more than random OC fanfiction strictly on the basis that the author isn't going to absurd lengths to explain why this child or other character is making these strange decisions that don't in any way fit to the story they have ended up writing.

To me it is so much easier and less off putting to use my suspension of disbelief on a character with foreknowledge or a decidedly different personality being dropped into a setting than to see an OC randomly make very similar choices an SI would and still act as though they belong in the setting like a Mary Sue.
Often times I find that bad authors are bad authors but a few steps above that it's easier to appreciate an SI story from a mediocre author than an OC. Similar mistakes just a different perspective I suppose.

 

The only two SI's I'm familiar with are A Curse of Truth (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8586147/1/A-Curse-of-Truth) and The Evil Overlord List (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10972919/1/The-Evil-Overlord-List). I enjoyed both stories.

Now to actually answer your question. I'm pretty new to this community and notice that SI's are looked down upon but I think the entire community starts with people who'd like to imagine themselves in situations they read about. I think people are being disingenuous if they hate on self inserts and then enjoy stories where the author has clearly based their protagonist on their ideas of who they are or wish they were.

On the actual SI's where an OC has knowledge about what is going to happen I would point to the first fic I mentioned where the story, because it was well written, was quite enjoyable. It was the focus on the relationships and the wit that was enjoyable. If I'm honest that's all I remember but that's saying much for an average story.

 

SI's are terrible and anyone who does them should feel terrible. Bunch of typical wish-fulfillment low-energy losers who'll never amount to anything writing-wise. *nods*

Eh, you can counter that by writing out what you remember before beginning to write, and using that as your solitary reference sheet during the entirety of the story. But SIs means nobody gives a shit typically and all they want to do is just masturbate to their own cleverness in all things fictional. And then maybe invent the printing press, the horse-shoe, faster-than-horse travel and roman legions.

 

That wasn't my point. You can counter everything in an SI by doing something to actually counter it (which people don't do).

My point is that people specifically do this in like ninety percent of the SI stories out there. Even if they "write down what they know at the very beginning" you still have the photographic memory syndrome at some point.

Unless you borderline masturbate on a particular story (ie read it a dozen times or more, or specifically go into the material with the purpose of memorizing it), you aren't going to remember all of that detail. And honestly, how many of you can say they specifically read a fictional story for the sole purpose of memorization outside of an academic environment? Even then, over a short amount of time, detail of that memory is lost and muddled.

Photographic memory doesn't exist and long-term Eidetic memory hasn't been proven to exist out of childhood. Yet apparently, virtually every SI in existence has this miraculous ability.

 

I haven't read a good self-insert fanfiction yet, but it is possible too well I guess. I think the problem is that doing self insert fanfiction comes with certain temptations. Temptations to make your character/yourself better, cooler, awesomer, etc at the expense of the narrative being enjoyable for people who aren't you.

Someone earlier mentioned self-inserts in original fiction, like Dante's Divine Comedy, Tolkien, etc. I think in original fiction, self inserts are easier to do right. The temptation to make your character better, cooler, awesomer is counterbalanced by the temptation to make your setting, and all other characters in it, better, cooler, awesomer.

There are two pitfalls in self insert fanfiction that are very common: the self insert is so hyper competent in all respects that I keep thinking "Yeah, okay buddy, whatever you say about yourself", before eventually dropping the fic. Or the character is so dreadfully boring, because the author is a boring person. And I drop the fic.

So maybe the best way to do a self insert is to just not mention that it is a self insert.

 

As many others have pointed out, I don't think that SI is inherently bad, rather, it is usually poorly done. Dreaming of Sunshine is one of my favorite Naruto fanfics and was my first experience with SI. Perhaps the hallmark of a well done SI is being unable to discern whether it truly is the author inserting themselves or inserting what amounts to an OC into the story. In this case, the SI functions more similarly to an OC-centric fic with elements of time-travel. In addition, I believe SI can truly shine when the main character functions as a window into the world they now inhabit. They can channel your own questions, curiosity, and puzzling excitement as they learn about the place they now find themselves.

Past memory is, to me, the greatest problem SI stories encounter. The main character is typically relatively omniscient, which is one of the faster ways to kill interest in a story. The story no longer reads as a tale of conflict and suspense, but something more akin to playing a video game while following a walkthrough. DoS addresses this by giving the SI non-perfect memory; however, even this feels a bit contrived at times when the main character perfectly remembers a more obscure detail while conveniently forgetting something else later. Overall I'd say SIs are, on average, worse than other works of fanfiction, if only because there are so many ways to fail spectacularly.

 

There's Jacobk's latest SI... It's a really good SI that avoids a lot of pitfalls and traps others tend to fall into.

 

It is really rather self-indulgent, it's just that the things that jacobk is indulging in aren't the typical fanfiction writer things and they make for a halfway decent tale.

 

I feel that with SIs you need humour and serious plot. You cannot just write a straightforward story. Unlike in traditional stories, the plot can't revolve around the SI solving the riddles and befriending the characters. You cannot just join the Trio or Team Seven. It becomes preachy and removes all conflict because the SI is nigh omniscient.
That is why humour is necessary in SI fanfics. And I don't mean the common anime overreactions in written format. Situation comedy, subtle comedy, satire, irony, wit.
Say, the SI wants to fix all the problems but rather than being Merlin reincarnated, he is a muggle. I mean, that would be fun to read. Or what if the SI causes some major canon divergence early on by mistake? Maybe he ran over Harry with a car.
SIs already have the knowledge of canon. So it is very important to make that knowledge difficult to act upon. Make the journey tougher than it was. Many people would force drama and angst to make it seem tough. But that's just stupid.
Normal fics would reveal the details to the reader as the protagonist faces the various challenges. In fanfics, the challenge lies in making the journey more interesting for the readers who already know the facts. And SI add further complication because both the readers and the protagonist know everything.