Hello all, I've been trying to brainstorm some ideas for how to approach having a foreign raised Harry get up to snuff with english.

Seeing as he'd be ten when he gets his letter, I'm under the impression that he'd more or less have to starting from basically no actual skill in the language beyond a few popular phrases, the stuff you'd pick up from movies and songs, but if people know better I'd love to hear it!

However, if he is starting from zero, my first instinct is to rush this process, to have him talking effectively to those at Hogwarts as soon as it's believable, and yet, the thought of having him sit through Snape's initial introduction without really picking up on anything, lagging behind having to read of some translating chalk board, sounds like a delightful way to frustrate Snape.

So, I guess my ultimate question is what timelines (between receiving his letter till X) and methods (Forging the sword memory potion and day of cramming; normal language textbooks, diligence, and immersion; Hitchhikers Guide babblefish) do you find interesting?

 

That's the thing: None of it. I want to read a story about magic. Reading about Harry's struggle while attempting to talk to learn a language or communicate with other people isn't interesting. If Harry were older and powerful you could turn this into something elaborate—Legilimency for example—but if he's just receiving his Hogwarts letter?

Translation spell. Permanent. Attach it to an item if you want him to lose it some time down the line to create a bit of tension. Then get on with the story.

 

A foreign raised Harry can have a working knowledge of English if not outright fluency. From what I can tell from your post his lack of language skills are more of an inconvenience to the story than a relevant plot point, so why not just bypass it?

 

We know two things about magical language education that should provide guidance.

1. We know that Barty Crouch Sr could speak at least 150 languages, perhaps over 200 if we believe Percy over Ludo Bagman. This is not humanly possible without the use of magic, meaning that there must be some kind of magic to greatly enhance language learning and retention.

2. Percy and Ludo Bagman both treated Barty's language ability as something impressive, which means that although there is a way to use magic to learn languages, it is not something that completely eliminates difficulty. Either the magic itself is difficult, or it merely enhances your natural language learning ability (as opposed to giving you directly the ability to use the language).

 

I like that, something he can lose is a wonderful sort of thing to have in a story, the first time he loses it can convince him he needs to learn properly.

I'm willing to, I guess there's an opportunity to have a Harry that came from a happy home have real trouble falling in love with Hogwarts, at least immediately, and a language barrier would help make that more real.

Ultimately, I don't want to write him learning a single word, it sounds boring, I agree. Just looking for thoughts.

 

Some real world references: Children under the age of eleven(ish) will pick up languages very quickly and without accent, and up to age eleven even forget their mother tongue if they move countries, unless their parents continue talking to them in their mother tongue. i believe the world record in learning a language is one week. (some super genius, there is a documentary about him learning icelandic in one week. Youtube search Daniel Tammet)

To your question: Have Harry learn English either instantaniously or within one chapter. Google Polyglot if you need some inspiration on which method he could use to learn. There are many more than the ones used in classrooms. Edit: Please note though that i mean he should just learn it in a sentence or two. Nobody wants to read about Harry sitting at a desk memorizing vocab. Or you could just have him learn it in between chapter one and two, or even better just start the story at that point where he has learnt english half decently. then just don't mention it much, maybe a reference here and there.

 

Maybe some sort of matrix "I know kung fu" style upload...To make it more whimsical, one could have Harry live/play through a brits life a la Roy from Rick and Morty

I do believe I recall an example once where they had languages potions, the point of humor being the fact that they hadn't been updated and taught you 17th century english.

 

There is no method that would be interesting. The whole thing reeks of filler side-plot that is just not relevant to the story as a whole. I'd gloss over it and wouldn't spend more than a paragraph on it.

 

Disagree that it's filler. It can be used as a good vehicle for character development or the building of relationships (romantic or otherwise), especially if he has someone learning with him or a teacher.

 

It seems that for the most part the methods of learning matter little, the best I can do is have something that doesn't onerously go a against canon so as to not grate on nerves of readers. As to the rest, well, whatever i do it better serve it's purpose and not overstay it's welcome...or something like that.

I want to thank you all for input, more than anything it seems I really just ought to work on the plan to see what'll fit.

 

Actually not true. Sir John Bowring was familiar with over 200 languages and could communicate with others in half of them (while not proven, eye witnesses and his devotion to language-learning convinces most historians the claim is well within reason). Richard Donner speaks probably around 20 languages well enough to communicate (as of 3 years ago), and he was only seventeen. If he grew serious about learning languages at 10, that puts it at more than 2 languages a year.

So, bringing this back to Barty Crouch Sr.

All we know about him was that he was an elderly man (GoF chapter 7). He also seemed very much in his right mind until after the tournament (GOF again). So, what is "elderly" in the HP world? Dumbledore lived past 150, but that seems a bit unusual. I think a general adding of about 20 years is safe, so "elderly" would probably be something along the lines of 90 to 100 in the wizarding world, as "elderly" is no less than 70.

That puts learning 150 languages without magic within the realm of possibility if Crouchfocused on doing so (and moreover, new theories identify polyglots with very well-ordered brains, which Crouch seems to be) at the age of 10 or 12. Following Donner and the timeline I set - that would allow Crouch to learn 180 languages without any magical help, studying language only 3 hours a day, 2 out of every 3 days.

All of that to say, there's no reason to think there is a specific magical help in learning languages. It's probably a combination of an extremely long life and hard work (and, for a horrible Fanfiction trope, maybe even a few time-turners). Throw in the ability to apparate or take a Port Key, along with other types of magical travel, and you also have first hand immersive exposure to language, which is always good.

So, MonkeyBiznez what about Harry? There's no reason for him to learn English at an accelerated rate. On the other hand, if spending 10 hours a day and learning a related language, you could be reach basic fluency in 7 weeks (US Foreign service institute numbers).

What does that mean for you? Make Harry get his letter a bit earlier in the summer. Give him eight weeks to learn in England (full immersion) with a tutor, but skip it in the story. Chapter 1 ends with the decision. Chapter 2 begins with boarding the train and Harry speaking pretty good English, but stumbling over the harder sentence structures. Use it to have him seek help from another student in his reading assignments now and then, but not too often, and drop it after the first term.

That, at least, seems plausible in the HP world based on what I've written above.

 

One correction Joe's Nemesis, Dumbledore officially died at 116, though the case of Armando Dippet suggests that the Philosopher's Stone isn't a necessary component of an extremely long lifespan. My headcanon puts a standard wizard lifespan between 150 and 200 years.

Also, I was disappointed to discover that the thread was about Harry learning English instead of, as I assumed, learning languages irl by reading HP fanfiction.

/offtopic

 

That's what I'm leaning (if 5ish weeks instead of 8, i don't see a reason to move forward the automagic sending of the letters) towards now, it was just this nebulous thing I knew I'd have to deal with that I hadn't thought much about.

Off topic, how do I thumbs up a post?

 

I can just about be convinced that a person could, over the course of a lifetime, with extreme dedication, learn over 100 languages. But I don't believe that you can remain fluent in all of them, or even a large proportion of them. Maintaining fluency requires frequent use. If not daily, then at least a substantial amount of time each week. There isn't enough time in the day to remain fluent in 100 languages simultaneously. Even 20 is pushing my belief, never mind 100.

On the plan you describe, by the time Crouch is learning language #150, he will have lost all ability to communicate with fluency in language #2 (and #3-#130 as well).

 

I'd say it's pretty hard to be able to communicate effectively in over thirty languages or so at any given point in one's lifetime. Unless you surround yourself with all different types of people who all speak different languages, you will, like Taure said, not be able to use more than thirty languages on any sort of regular basis. And even thirty is pushing it and you'd probably have to be in a career field where you're required to know a lot of said languages.

From my experience, it's actually fairly difficult to maintain proficiency in a language. I've been back to China for 3 months every single year and even still my Mandarin is complete shit. I'll still have difficulty translating a lot of English into Mandarin, and I'm also only recognizing ~80% of the characters that I come across day-to-day when I'm in China.

Never mind thirty.

 

Oh, that's easy. Occlumency. It fixes everything.