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Voldemort vs Aurors: How many can he take?

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. Joe

    Joe The Reminiscent Exile ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter ⭐⭐⭐

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    I'll expand on my point and add that most of Voldemort's power isn't actual magic - although he is supremely powerful in that regard - but is drawn from perception and fear.

    He looks like someone that's going to end you. His only real competition is Dumbledore, unarguably the greatest wizard of his time, and if the masses/Aurors see even Dumbledore only able to stalemate him... Well, you'd need an Auror with a death wish to even attempt the attack from ambush.

    Fear of a name, and all of that. It just so happens in Voldemort's case the fear can be backed up by some serious magical balls and a willingness to use that power.

    It's not so much an Auror could take him from ambush, as none would dare try. As it stands, fate/prophecy had to step in to give the world a shot at taking him down.
     
  2. Lukaskr

    Lukaskr Fourth Year

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    I also wondered this many times, but I always leaned towards the infinite response.

    Let me clarify, I bet if it was an open space with huge amount of room, and aurors in all 360 directions probably 5-8 would be enough. The point is, I don't think those conditions would be possible. Voldemort would quickly change the environment, flee when it is opportune and strike when opponents are more vulnerable.

    He would use his power and knowledge to wreak havoc, confusion and spread fear - forcing his enemies to give chase or let him go.
     
  3. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Second Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It's a difficult question because I can't imagine a situation where Voldemort would allow himself to be outnumbered so thoroughly, or wouldn't be able to extricate himself from. Logically there must be a number at which point he would be overwhelmed, but thematically I can't even envision it.

    To echo someone or other earlier, McGonagall would have had no problem against the four aurors Umbridge brought. If McGonagall can take four aurors, and Voldemort could face McGonagall/Slughorn/Flitwick simultaneously, then Voldemort can presumably face at least a dozen aurors. Of course, that kind of scaling is imperfect but it's what we've got.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
  4. DiscipleOfPhenax

    DiscipleOfPhenax Squib

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    I think when Dumbledore says that the Aurors are coming, it's because Voldemort couldn't fight him AND take out the Aurors, not that the Aurors are themselves a threat
     
  5. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

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    There's one quote from Sirius in OotP that says something about Voldemort's relative strength against the ministry:

    "In the old days he had huge numbers at his command; –– He's certainly not going to try and take on the Ministry of Magic with only a dozen Death Eaters."

    That pretty clearly states that the real strength is in numbers no matter how strong individual wizards are.
     
  6. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Haven't read the entire thread yet, just responding to the OP:

    I'd also consider that your average Death Eater and your average Auror are somewhat evenly matched. There are the badasses on both sides, of course, like Bellatrix and Kingsley, but as a general rule I'd think those would be solid 1v1 fights.

    So how many Death Eaters were in the MoM when Sirius died? Dumbledore turned the tide of that particular battle before following Harry and fighting Voldemort.

    But mostly... thanks for making this thread. It's something I've been playing around with in my head for a while as well.
     
  7. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Lord Voldemort! More powerful than your average aurora!
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Because apparently I am into pictures (procrastination!)

    I view this as an exponential thing.

    Most wizards can't take out an auror. But once you've got a wizard at that level, the people who are better than an auror tend to be noticably better. If Kingsley or Snape could roll 4v1, then LV and Albus could probably do that squared and take out 16. There's points all along that graph of course, but in my mind... yeah, that's how I see it. The better you are the easier it is to keep expanding your power into esoteric reaches of power. It'd have to cap out at some point in theory, once all magic ever was discovered, learned, and mastered, but... that's beside the point.

    And with that increased fighting ability also comes the ability to get away when needed. So not only are you exponentially harder to fight, harder to kill, and more dangerous to be around... you're also exponentially harder to pin down. It's why wizards like LV become so dangerous, because past a certain point it's almost impossible to deal with them.

    Yeah, I know it's a bullshit looking graph. I spent all of 5 minutes on it, gimme a break. I'm supposed to be finishing e-mails before I go in to work. Dawlish is meant to represent the 1:1 ratio - so Dawlish is an average auror and would have a 50/50 win ratio against another 'average' auror.

    The scale is off a bit too, as I think about 90% of wizards would fall in the 'wizards below the level of a basic auror' range, with only 10% total being better than Dawlish. I figure 1 in 10 being better than the entry level dark wizard law enforcement job is about right, since a lot of skilled wizards will have gone for other careers (I'd bet on Bill over Dawlish, for example). Then again, 1 in 20 would work too. Presumably becoming an auror does involve combat specific training, if they're meant to be dark wizard catchers.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  9. Darthlawyer

    Darthlawyer First Year

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    This question doesn't have a simple answer. There aren't many situations Tom Riddle actually fights to win he fights to install fear or for a quick kill but not to actually battle. He is more of a terrorist than a warrior in that way.

    The moment he actually is battling for his life without a chance to get away is at the battle of Hogwarts. He can't get away because of the anti apparation wards. This fight however doesn't actually count because his wand didn't work for him as his normal wand would have. In the end i would say that Tom Riddle can be taken on by 5 aurors or more not in the sense of power but in the sense he can't really oversee the whole fight anymore. The aurors do have to be lucky only once.
     
  10. Alpaca Queen

    Alpaca Queen Fourth Year

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    I'm sure that Lord Voldemort has other methods of transportation beyond apparition and portkeys. Even if all else fails, I'm sure he could have flown out an open window or something similar. I think the reason he didn't run in that Battle was because he expected to win until the end, and because running would have cost him a majority of his forces.

    Which I guess makes this kind of an important requirement for defeating Voldemort, that he must be too confident to flee until it is too late for him. In this, a bunch of aurors might actually be more effective than somebody like Dumbledore, since Voldemort might not take the former as seriously as the latter.
     
  11. thonez

    thonez Squib

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    Yes, here main problem is Doylist one that using brain would lead to pretty short story.

    This could be done by Harry alone from second year. Just pick earmuffs, baby mandrake and invisibility cloak. Then go near Voldemort to knock him out and quickly give him DoLD/petrify him and put his statue in ministry of magic.
     
  12. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Firstly, Dumbledore is said to be the only one Voldemort fears obviously implying they're equals and or Dumbledore's stronger but in the fight with Aurors Shacklebolt was actively sabotaging them so that's irrelevant.

    Secondly, Voldemort didn't fear the Aurors taking him down and arresting him. He just didn't wabt to let go of the tactical advantage he had by laying low. He could've easily escaped(weird vanishing thing)/apparated away he was just delayed by Dumbledore and fetching crazy minion Bellatrix.

    Thirdly, What are you talking about Sacrificial Protection Magic?! SPM was totally irrelevant by DH he's 17 left the Dursleys, also am I just forgetting or was Harry even involved in that fight? If so Kingsley, McG, Slughorn, HP doesn't =4 aurors

    Putting in my own opinion then 20 Aurors is my guess considering this someone they call The Worst Dark Lord of All Time, though to be fair he apparently used a lot of guerilla/fear tactics in the first war to gain that reputation

    EDIT: Read something more then the OP woops, Thonez why'd you bump up this thread you've added almost nothing of value to the discussion
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  13. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Majube, there was another instance of sacrifice in the series. Lily died and protected Harry, but in DH Harry willingly went to his death in the Forbidden Forest, convinced that he had to die before Voldemort became mortal again. Harry's sacrifice protected everyone Voldemort threatened unless Harry gave himself up i.e. everyone at Hogwarts fighting Voldemort.
     
  14. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    I knew that he sacrificed himself, didn't know at all that that gave them the sacrifice protection. So, does that mean that everyone who died in the final battle Colin Creevey,Lupin, Tonks etc. Had already been hit, and died when the magic ran out?
     
  15. James

    James Unspeakable

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    All of them died before Harry went to forrest.
     
  16. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Thanks for clearing that up. I honestly think that the mystique of Voldemort being the Worst Dark Lord of their Time, Hagrids opinion who probably never personally experienced Grindelwald's terror. I think the mystique of what Voldemort can do essentially keeps the wonder of what Harry Potter TBWL achieved and in pulling him down to a more normal person in statistics of what he can achieve diminshes it all. Why not just say in a fanfic that Voldemort can kill a 100 aurors at once and merely waited so he could wage fear tactics and recruit and ensure that no rebellions occured. He's supposed to be larger then life, more evil then can be possible, powerful enough that the only one he was ever said to fear is Dumbledore the guy who took down another Dark Lord who achieved so much more and it makes what Harry did in taking down the famously feared bogeyman all the more impressive unless of course he ambushed him with a 1000 imperiused muggle meat shields as AK deterrent
     
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