Typhon, why are you building owner worlds at all? How does that remotely make sense?

---------- Post automerged at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

Also

Day4 Vote Newcomb

---------- Post automerged at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

Jan, typhon's play here makes no sense as scum to me. While tom/Newcomb are both making thefforts plays I'd expect them to make if scum AND the plays that are game winning for them as scum.

I think that Tom is independently scummier than Newcomb, but since we lynched the judge, we like autolose to double life last Stand so . . .

 

Oh, so I can just never read her.
That sucks.

 

you can get lucky and if you mindmeld with her and you are town then chances are she is more likely town.
Things like that.

---------- Post automerged at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

I get what you are saying .. but on the other hand I don't want to lose to him being scum killing our priest and getting away with it.
I think his early worldbuilding was odd .. the only way pushing newcomb/me against solo tom would be if he is with newcomb, gets tom lynched today and then basically just wins the game.

I am trying to get any read out of his reaction at the moment .. talking the game through with him might give me some sort of read on him .. because I have trouble reading the information he is giving on his own.

 

I think I see how lynching newcomb makes mechanical sense.

6 of us, lynch newcomb down to 1 life.
Either one or two kills tonight, might hit dob/gambler/survivalist/angel protect.
Go to tomorrow with any of 5-1, 4-2, 4-1, 3-2, 3-1, 2-1 with a chance of winning or losing with a particularly crucial DOB target.
Whereas if we lynch typh and he's town we usually lose to two scum or whoever is left gets two kills to try to reach final 3.

But, like, do you actually think newcomb is scum?
Isn't it better to just keep him around?
And thug, would you actually vote him over me tomorrow?

I think we just say we lose in any world where newcomb or snowvon are scum and work from there.
Which probably means lynching me or typhon.

 

But why exactly is Vira/Tom/Jan not viable to you?
For me the answer is easy .. but it should not be for you, i think.

If we lynch tom today and there are 2 kp in the night, want now?

the town/scum newcomb thing is mostly me talking about what comes to mind .. and the fact that the difference in newcombs play today is close to 0.

The only thing that makes him more scummy is that he does not care as much .. and whenever i say that he says "but i am paranoid" .. but he is not showing it. there is no sign of paranoia.
I would expect him to try and build worlds between tom you and me and try to read into it.

All he did was mention that he didn't like one of my earlier post, which in the end is boring, pointless and just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.
You know .. a slight jab without committing to anything yourself, but maybe someone else picks it up and does the dirty word for him.
I would except early game Newcomb to level his play a bit .. but now is lategame.
No Holds Barred.

I don't know .. honestly Newcomb is somewhat of a disappointment if he town. I get it because his position is easier .. but he could lose to tom and myself if we are survivalist and checked fanatic and he is not visibly trying.
(not as bad as von .. but von is von and town so who cares)

---------- Post automerged at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

Why do you have that townread on newcomb.

Like .. if i had to pick a single word to describe his play it would be underwhelming.
That is not towny .. that is not scummy .. that is nothing.

I looked through his iso .. i still like almost everything he did and it looked good, but the lack of a greater picture makes it hard.

The fact that after vira who he says always was a hit, we missed 2 times .. the miner lynch was something he spearheaded without a single bit of hesitation.
He took 1 post by vira and made a noose for miner from it.

I don't even know for sure what he wanted to do on d3. He was somewhere there but not really solving the game anymore just nodding along to everything else, feeling save and warm after we misslynched miner.


Please tom .. make a solid case why you believe newcomb to be town. I am iffy, but if i get him as solid town, then we just always win.

 

Jan, you've already talked about demon communication a bit, but if Typhon is scum, when did they have time to plan the pagan/demon coordination?

Answer 1 is that there weren't any demons until I shot slip, so coordination wasn't needed. That world ends in lynching Newcomb over Typhon toDay.

Answer 2 was that there weren't any demons until koalas died, but that also means lynching Newcomb.

Answer 3 is that the demons would never haunt the priest ever anyways to have a higher chance of corrupting the check, so coordination wasn't needed. But demons /do/ want to haunt the priest to try to make the priest unprotectable later. And this would depend on Vira having a specific set of valuation that her team knows about, but as you've said, she was leeroyed early without warning and wouldn't have had time to plan demon strategy.

Basically, using pagan to kill the priest for free sounds like a far easier bet for the witches if they're anticipating a town pagan than if they're coordinating with the demons, because there hasn't been a window to do so.

Unless you can point out that happening openly in the thread yesterday.

---------- Post automerged at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Typhon, me defending you here isn't an excuse to avoid going into detail on why Tom can't be scum or why you think owner could be scum.

Like, you currently have owner in more possible teams than Tom. WTF?!

 

Why would you expect townfirmed newcomb to be more whelming?
His approach/attitude is exactly what I would expect in this situation.

---------- Post automerged at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------

How so exactly?
Is it instinct? Do you still expect me to be over the top townie from that one game with the rhymes? Have I actually been scummy?

Your read on me not only sucks, it's not self consistent.
Thug, do I have to put you on the list?

 

If you want to. Good luck figuring out illusion kill mechanics (hint, you need illusion kill for endgame). Maybe Newcomb can explain it to you in scum chat so you can continue pretending to be ignorant in the thread.

 

Why is Newcomb in any world townfirmed?

He is either town because of his behavior or he is not.

Explain to me right now why you think he is townfirmed.

 

Thug, me not following the setup is not alignment indicative, and I'm almost sure you know that.

Jan, newcomb is townfirmed in his mind. And he's playing like it.

 

Depends on the team.
It is fairly easy to say day 1 "if typhon/fonti is still alive on the day the priest claims the demons don't target him and he flips his pagan card to kill the priest."

Like that is a a post i would put in that chat if i were scum. Then you can disuss if you want a conditional .. and depending on the first letter of typhons last post of the day that is the strategy they pick ..
like that is really easy to pull of and no one would rly know.

---------- Post automerged at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

I think he would play exactly the same as scum. Like the difference between town!newcomb and scum!newcomb today is close to nothing.


Why do you think that he believes that he is townfirmed?
I don't think he does. Give me examples don't make me pull your teeth.

 

Hi Jan, codes are illegal so I hope the scum team isn't using them

 

true enough. the first part still applies and is easy to do ..
like talking through it is not that hard.

In a Newcomb/Typhon world typhon would actually want to die (or a town ) .. because Newcomb as last witch with last stand and two lifes would almost always win.

And typhons arguing is going in that direction for me. Saying Newcomb can only be scum with me .. means I should believe Newcomb is town .. and kill Tom/Typhon.
That is a possible direct play .. and the only way I can comprehend Typhon having that opinion.

 

Typh can also just be the last scum who needs any two of me/newcomb/jan lynched to win.
He's pushing the two that need pushed and not actually convincing anyone I'm town.

---------- Post automerged at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

Maybe I have a better impression of scumnewcomb, but I think he would try harder to ensure his gambit worked. It's a lot to put into the game without putting in work too.

 

So some things in order.

Regarding owner: err, I've been listing her alongside Slip in town Newcomb worlds just because we don't formally have a flip from Newcomb yet, so technically she wasn't eliminated. Obviously it was a longshot, but I was being through and my tinfoil thought process was that maybe the scum team thought to use their nk on her to confirm her but didn't want to waste their IK.

Then I thought about it for half a second before I went to type this up and realized the angels know who the priest is, so they'd never protect a fake priest, so that doesn't work. So yeah, owner is always town, and I'm always an idiot. Yay.

So basically Slip is always scum barring tinfoil worlds, one is always in Newcomb/Vira, and one is always in Jan/tom. I don't think I'm moving from that.

~~~

Jan, I'm not sure what the purpose is of the Vira/Jan/Tom thought experiment - that's a ridiculous world, because in it you convinced one town player to give an extra life to a town player, and worse a town info role that made it more likely for you and your teammate to be caught. Both Jan/Newcomb/Slip and Tom/Slip/Vira are significantly more likely.

If we lynch tom today and the game is still going I'll be exceedingly surprised, and then I'll advocate for Newcomb's lynch because that's where POE leaves us.

~~~

I mean, I'm not planning on disappearing, I've been as active as possible given RL and stuff.

But to the point, tom's play doesn't make sense for me with 2 scum left. So either he makes no sense in general and he has a partner in Newcomb (unlikely), or he's solo scum.

The alternative is that he's town and we have 2 scum players left (this being the Jan/Newcomb team).

The owner thing is addressed above.

I agree that tom is the most independently scummy player we have left, but also think lynching Newcomb today to bleed a life is the proper move.

~~~

Jan, man, surely you don't think this is the way that I'd set out to be lynched?

---------- Post automerged at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

Oh, looool, we could never have vira/owner/x team with owner fakeclaiming priest for obvious reasons. That makes me a fucking idiot x2. I blame it all on illness, I swear I'm smart guys. Rly.

 

Jan

You asked both tom and myself about that fonti read/interaction, and we both expanded on it.

What were you looking for? Did you get it? Do you think it helped you read myself or tom, independently, or develop an associative read?

Help me get inside your head here.

 

Hmm, would anybody like to seriously suggest a world were slip is town that isn't Vira/tom/typhon?

I'd like to contrast this to slip opinions from the beginning of the day toDay and the end of the day yesterDay.

 

I think I finally understand, now, how KaiDASH felt in Concussion Mafia.

 

Except that you haven't been calling for the final Witch's head for 3 days, you've been leading lynches on town. You can have townpoints for that statement though.

1. How likely do you think it is that that Tom and Typhon are both witches AND tom has an extra life?

2. If only one of tom/typhon is a witch, which one is it?

3. Has it even remotely crossed your mind that von is pulling a cathunt here (I don't remember if you were around for / read that game or not. Obviously I can't link it anymore)

 

I'm just sitting here like, you know what, I already have this game solved.

Mal's right, Jan. You have a nasty habit of coming across as just super disparaging, and it's the furthest possible thing from motivational. Like, the more you keep calling my play alignment non-indicative and terrible, the less I care about this game.

Which we've already pretty much won, by the way. The far, far most likely world is that killing tom just ends it. It's possible tom's /with/ Typhon, though that's least likely of all, and it's possible it's just Typhon, but it's absolutely one of those three things.

---------- Post automerged at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

1) Uhh. Not super likely? I don't really understand what Typhon would be doing toDay in that world. Can we just get tom to claim DoB or not DoB and then have him kill Typhon if he is? Because that would be kinda idea from my POV.

2) tom

3) Pulling a what now?

---------- Post automerged at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

*kinda ideal

---------- Post automerged at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

Oooohhh wait. Mal, was that the one where it was Von/fonti and fonti did that weird "remove myself from the thread" play?