Fair enough.

Still going to get back to you, Citrus, and address the other posts that popped up while I was writing my 833, just going to take a break to eat dinner first.

---------- Post automerged at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:28 ----------

Also, while I'm again thinking about it and no answer was provided yesterDay;
owner, since you've already spilled everything else about your role what is your character name?

---------- Post automerged at 01:34 ---------- Previous post was at 00:35 ----------

Where is owner and where is Bill Door? What has Jarizok done that Majube hasn't? Why do you have several assortments of nulls instead of town/scum-leans?

I typed this out intending to break your post down into separate quotes before seeing that I'd unintentionally mirrored most of what you had already covered in the next section.

The only time I could see Proph throwing in the towel from a scum perspective is if he's a goon to owner's godfather or other scum PR. In that world I could see B, D, and E as likely. Not certain on A and given the negativity surrounding owner I don't see C as true unless owner is town, in which case A could also be viable given a push for D.

Given I'm still feeling that owner is scum I'd agree that owner and Proph are unaligned.

Yo Mal, you answer this yet?

Then... why not include her in your reads?

Considering that neither Bill nor Kai were present on Delphine's wagon and Bill was only on owner because of owner's gambit, are you suggesting that more than one scum voted for Delphine or that Delphine's wagon was pushed forward by B/K despite keeping their votes otherwise occupied? Or both?
miner11121
How do you feel about based Trump-Kai?

What has Kai done that is town-lean to you? What about miner? How you feel about owner's vote flailing re;me, Jarizok, when accused of being scum?

If you have to vote one now which would it be and why over the others?

---------- Post automerged at 01:36 ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 ----------

Probably going to go back to sleep and check on things again around noonish.

 

Flip it around.

Do you think all 3/4 scum are on Delphine's wagon? Sure, with a flash wagon, they don't have to be as careful about piling on together. And maybe the votes past soft lynch shouldn't count (so add those 3 to the off wagon pool).

But the reason that going for the people off wagon works is because scum are often very averse to clumping up, and it will be much clearer later if the day1 wagon was pushed by misdirected town or by malicious scum (often because the town with the personality to push day1 wagons get killed in the night)

I'll whip up actual votal analysis for day1 later toDay, but sticking with lynching in those 2 or 5 people depending on how you want to count it is good enough for me.

Separately, I'd also prefer to run up wagons on people thato didn't have wagons on them previously, for obvious reasons. It's very helpful to see who will vote for whom, and it forces attention on people that need attention on them before the end of the day.

---------- Post automerged at 01:48 ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 ----------

Oh, and I currently feel pretty meh on Fluff . . . Which actually kind of looks OK for him? Like, I usually want to lynch scum!Fluff with thr force of 1000 suns by day2 and right now I only want to lynch him with the force about ~50 suns, which is about average for town!Fluff.

Hopefully he'll do something though. Like, on a meta level, I'll stick my head out for Kai much longer than Fluff, even if both are playing poorly. Fluff I'll only commit to keeping from being the day1 lynch.

 

I'd really prefer if you didn't lynch me to be honest.

Still think majube is scum. Same reasons as yesterday plus piling onto the lynch at the end of the day and post #797 is just straight filth.

Owner will sort itself out tomorrow.

Feeling a bit better about Miner.

I don't think proph is scum. If he was he wouldn't have moved the lynch away from owner.

fluffiness and kai are the only people who've done less than me so there's a fairly solid chance one of them are scum. More likely to be fluff than kai because I think kai at least tries to show a bit of effort when scum.

Vote Majube

 

First things first, thoughts on the no-kill situation:

Option A) Scum’s target was protected
Option B) Killer Scum was Roleblocked
Option C) Scum’s target has (x) Immunity
Option D) Scum decided not to kill anyone

I’ve put them in order of likeliness here, but B would obviously be the best case scenario because the roleblocker would be sitting on the identity of 1 scummember. If B is indeed the case, how best to proceed? Outing themselves is dangerous because I’m assuming for the moment that there’s no world where there’s a Town Doctor as well as a Town roleblocker for balance reasons. We’d get scum in return though so it might be worth it?

On to reactions; some votes onto Fluffy and Proph, neither of which I agree with. Yes, Proph instigating the flashwagon on Delphine looks bad, but he gets towniepoints for offering to die in the first place and I can totally see myself setting up a wagon on one of my scumreads if I was about to get lynched in a similar situation.
The Majube vote from Proph I do agree with, since Majube has been scummy since the first hour of the game. Those Proph quotes Waco collected though… Proph doesn’t look good there, but hindsight is 20/20. “That said if this CFD works I kind of doubt Delphine flips scum because y’know. Scum lurk out the day” Wouldn’t have looked good if Delphine had flipped scum either. It’s a smelly post whichever way you look at it, but the most likely read is genuine nerves over the outcome of the flashwagon he just instigated.
Miner still voting me, noted. Majube feeling guilty, noted.
@Waco I’m here, I’m posting, chillax brah. Day start is at 3AM for me, I was only there for a bit (in bed on my phone) to check if I’m still alive and see initial reactions live before going back to bed.
Citrus posts 3 town reads and different degrees of nullness on everyone else. Noted. Citrus also says that Proph threw out the idea that he could be lynched himself. Shitsies. This throws my Prophread out the window. Setting up a flashwagon on one of your scumreads when you’re about to be lynched makes sense like I said earlier, but if you’re the one to create the action in the first place by derailing a fairly certain Owner lynch? This comes down to Proph sweeping in to save Owner and getting Delphine lynched all on his own. Ballsy move from either Scum or Town, but in what worlds would a townie go for it? Saving a PR is important, but an outed PR less so already, and it’s not like Owner was confirmed town at all. A scum!Proph saving a scumPR and getting a townie killed instead though? That would be worth the gambit, but only if both Owner and Proph can make the case stick that they’re not a scumteam today, otherwise we’d get both of them when initially Proph was relatively safe.
Proph’s analysis is here, and he townreads 7/12 living players. He also sets up the ‘I’ll probably be playing catch up for most of the week again’ ahead of schedule. Ima put this out here now.

Lynch vote: Prophylaxis

Now, hear me out here, I just thought of this with Mal’s Bill push. How many of you know that Mal always lynches outside of main wagons D2? Because if the scumteam knew this before all of the madness yesterday went down, then it makes it all worth it for the scumteam. They save Owner, they lynch a townie, AND they know neither of them will get lynched D2 if its up to Mal, so there’s a good chance they get a mislynch D2 as well! I don’t know if Mal’s ever been this obvious about her D2 lynching tactics, but if so, I can see how the play would work out.

Zenzao makes some cases for possible scumteams; Owner is suspect on every line, Majube is suspect on every line except for last one, which was the final read? Bill shows up in a lot of worlds. Miner Citrus and Kai are all suspect as well. Zenzao was one of my top townreads yesterday, and thanks to fluffi’s limited posting may now be my toptown, and his tiny text is pretty damning, but... What I don’t like about the scumteams here is the worlds where Bill and Kai are in a scumteam together. We just hardlynched Delphine, and Bill and Kai were literally the only 2 to not vote Delphine except for Delphine herself. If Bill and Kai are both scum we would have just hardlynched a townie with only 1 scumvote and I’m not buying that.
I’m feeling myself tunneling on Proph/Owner teams with Majube as likely 3rd member though, so I really should consider the cases for Bill and Kai and I wanna take a look at Miner as well for focusing me as heavily as he is. In my current tunnel-mindset I can’t look at those cases with the attention they deserve so I’ll just post this here now and do a reread of their posts in a bit when I’ve come of the adrenaline from finding/making up a scum plan.

 

Zenzao

Honestly? He's mostly lurked and his posts confuse the fuck outta me. I suppose it's his meta, but since I've only played with him once, not counting WH7 in which he made one post before replacing out, and in that game I was playing for the very first time and so was more focused on self-preservation rather than reading people.

Would like people to tell me about Kai's play, tbh.

This also ties into my wtf moment when reading through your notes. Going back to my 449 I'm not trying to defend Kai, I'm saying I'm not willing to lynch Kai d1 if i don't have any idea how he plays as scum or town. Like I wanted someone to explain how he plays before I put a vote on him d1.

 

Why were you saying that I'm not trying to lynch scum? I had my vote on Delphine and at the time I had no doubt in my mind that Delphine was scum.

But I guess I'm asking it sounds like your saying you knew Delphine wasn't scum? Or you didn't feel like I was trying hard enough?

Regardless of what I say or do, if I'm town why does this matter? Why are you even considering this? It's like you have your reads on strings and if one doesn't work out, you either choke them or cut them off. It's disturbing.

You said this. But then you hopped on the wagon after Proph joined in voting with me.

You were the 3rd person on that wagon. Where did your read on Delphine go?

And the gross part is Proph was the one you were voting on but then you follow his vote?

Yes, people can switch reads, but I don't know. It doesn't sit right with how quick the wagon formed and how quick you jumped on it after you told me you were going to lynch her because of how me and her interacted.

Also, Proph following me is kind of weird. And then he mentions not liking how the wagon's formed or starting to get worried near the end right before we hit hard lynch. I mean I was kind of there too with being the one pushing on Delphine, but I don't know. Part of me isn't sure if the way Proph said it was genuine or not.

Majube making the hard lynch looks bad.

Jarizok saying that this isn't as hard as he thought looks bad too.

This lunch break went by so quick. *sighs*

 

owner

Please lynch either Maj or Jari with me today.

Thanks.

 

Jarizok
Discussing the night kill is like Fight Club. We don't do it. For one example of why, the way certain players approach it and others don't effectively role fishes for who was responsible, which potentially outs PR's. We don't do it.

Do you not have thoughts on what I said specifically? You started by addressing my thoughts on Proph, but you somehow came to the conclusion that you strongly favor a scum!Owner + scum!Proph team without addressing my thoughts at all (which specifically disfavor such a world). Do you feel like my thoughts and your thoughts both jive on their coalignment or lack-there-of? Where do our mental models diverge? Like I still feel like from Proph's perspective throwing himself out as a possible lynch in the process of moving over to Delphine would be pretty -EV in a world where he's scum with Owner a la high risk low reward. But you seem to be coming to the conclusion that they're coaligned scum? ???
owner
You haven't placed your vote anywhere. What're your scumreads right now? Who would you PoE out as strongly Town?

---------- Post automerged at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

@Fluffiness Bill Door KaiDASH
If you're scum, please continue to lurk out. If you're town, can you please step it up and actually post shit and vote so we can actually tell and have some manner of distinguishing you from the other two. Kthxbye

---------- Post automerged at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

Oh cool, day ends on Friday, thought we only had 72 hours

 

Hey, can someone clarify what makes hard lynching different from soft lynch either way Delphine was goning to get knocked out, right?

 

You know I've actually posted about as much as I've had time to in the last few days. I'll actually have spare time for the rest of the week so I'll be doing stuff.

 

I have to admit though I goofed up voting Delphine but like I said I thought soft lynch meant she was pretty dead anyway. I quickly scanned theough 37-38 an just voted without thinkin' too much

---------- Post automerged at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

I kind of think Kai is town I mean very anti-town what with his/her? super low post count, but I'm not particularly getting any scum reads from his 11 posts one of which was kek So awesome


What do you guys think of keKai

 

Kai always does this like. I gave up paying attention to anything he does in the first 3 days ages ago.

 

Majube

Hard lynch kills the target AND immediately ends the day. Soft lynch only kills the target if that number is reached at deadline.

Problem with your voting during the last few hours is that you jumped on board with the majority wagon (that Proph vote was scummy af), and then you hammered at day end, suggesting you were around and was just scum lurking out the rest of the day.

---------- Post automerged at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

Oh and I forgot,
Citrus

scum!owner + scum!Proph is possible, but I think it's risky to make that assumption. The interaction there (esp. owner's refusal to jump on Proph's wagon even though it'd save her own skin) feels off, but I think that owner really is just sticking to her own reads (like her defense of Majube).

Either way, we should stick to the strat of leaving owner alive until D3. I guess I'd be OK with a Proph lynch, but I'd really prefer a Maj or Jari lynch today, as outlined before.

 

"Pay no attention to the fact that I created and pushed this wagon, despite never actually posting any actual case. It's really the fault of all the other people who voted... really..."




---------- Post automerged at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ----------

Is told not to drink the WINE, does it anyway...

---------- Post automerged at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

There are plenty of reason to not like Majube (see my D1), but I don't see the hammer as a major issue given it was < 5 mins to deadline and the lynch was forgone.

Do you think he was that eager to cut off the last couple minutes, or just desperate to be seen on the lynch wagon?

---------- Post automerged at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------

I think Proph/owner w=w is less likely than w/t but haven't ruled it out.

I greatly dislike how owner's post volume was low up until she took heavy pressure/a wagon, and now she's disappeared into the weeds again D2

 

What are you yapping at waco? I'm only 1 post behind you.

---------- Post automerged at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------

I'm tired of people trying to put me into worlds, as it's a waste and will go nowhere.

Or maybe some mafia, tried to link themselves to me, who knows.

 

Yea, as a result of your flurry in the final 24 hours of day 1

---------- Post automerged at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

If your tired of people putting you in worlds, don't be scummy.

The doubtcasting comments don't help your case

---------- Post automerged at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

If you're an outed Townie as you claim, you should play like one

 

Ok, well it's not like I'm advocating it's time to bet the game on no both aligned-scum and can never take it back and never talk about it again. I just feel like the logic feels decent and want to see what others feel about it (which seems to be mixed feelings).

No. No no no no no. You definitely don't just hand out free passes saying "oh we'll wait two Days and figure it out then". That's potentially giving a scum with a PR claim multiple days to coast AND possibly messing with actual PR's night actions to boot. Like seriously, what happens D3? Let's say she comes back with something like "Players A and B are the same parity." Ok great. What if it's two players that are pretty strongly town-read by that point, but earlier on in the game either she or the thread consensus was pushing those players were suspicious. Well we have a result from her now. Do we wait for another Day and see what she said? That's a really dangerous game - if she's scum, she had a death warrant from D1, and she's effectively coasted for multiple Days while feeding us random information that wastes discussion time and doesn't necessarily get us anywhere. And what if we then lynch incorrectly off of that! Then we double boned ourselves by just favoring the easy route of "oh well I don't have to think or figure people out, I can just lean on the mechanical play".

Like mechanics AND behavior are important. Ignoring either or is definitely the route to bad times, you definitely need to integrate both.

owner
I have multiple outstanding questions for you. Please answer them sometime, or at least tell me when you'll get around to them if you aren't answering them still

---------- Post automerged at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------
Jarizok
You need to color + bold your vote for it to be counted

owner
You still haven't placed your vote

Unofficial Votecount 2.02

Bill Door (3): Mallorean (#831), Zenzao (#833), Citrus (#835)
Majube (3): Prophylaxis, Jarizok, Bill Door (#843)
Prophylaxis (2): Majube, The Waco Kid
his fluffiness (1): Citrus
Jarizok (1): miner11121
Zenzao (1): mallorean_thug

Abstaining (3): Owner, his fluffiness, KaiDASH

---------- Post automerged at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------
Bill Door
Can I get an in order spectrum of your reads town-scum please and thanks?

---------- Post automerged at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Seriously where is everyone? I got home and there's like the number of posts we had in 20 minutes at Day end

 

Doubtcasting huh?

Me not being scummy is hard though.

It would have helped if town didn't pummel me into the ground and made me feel worthless to be fair.

---------- Post automerged at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

Citrus, your unofficial vote count has you voting twice.

---------- Post automerged at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

yeah yeah, i'll get to placing my vote. don't rush me.

---------- Post automerged at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

and you have mal voting twice as well.

 

owner, you have multiple unanswered questions, yet you have time to act like a "twitchy little ferret," when someone speculates your not town. Hmmm

 

Whoops you're right, I didn't remove old votes my bad.

CORRECTED Unofficial Votecount 2.02

Bill Door (3): Mallorean (#831), Zenzao (#833), Citrus (#835)
Majube (3): Prophylaxis, Jarizok, Bill Door (#843)
Prophylaxis (2): Majube, The Waco Kid
Jarizok (1): miner11121

Abstaining (3): Owner, his fluffiness, KaiDASH