Now that I got my annoyance with Majube out of the way, I actually want to
Vote:Bill Door

I don't think his reaction to owner claim was amazing, and then today, his proposed scumteam is literally the easiest three people to slap together and say they're scum, since majube and miner are both not very townread, and he's been pushing owner since the top of Day 1. Bill Door, could you explain interactions that make it seem as if those three could be scum together?

---------- Post automerged at 03:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 AM ----------

Yeah, for maybe 15 more minutes. I should be on most of tomorrow and Friday though.

 

What are your thoughts on Proph given the Mal & Kai's thoughts about him?

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Who do you think makes the most sense as teammates with Bill Door?

 

I'm actually worried about a Mal/Proph/??? world where mal swapped his vote to Delphine after Proph urged the thread to CFD her, which then prompter her lynch, and then mal spent today defending Proph based on the "sure, lynch me thing" which I don't actually think means anything, since a lot of people had already expressed their doubts on owner's claim at that point.

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As to Bill Door, Jarizok's post 844 just baffles me given that he says Proph is towny and scum in the same post before arguing that we shouldn't look that hard onto Bill/Kai because they voted off the main wagon. I could easily see Jarizok in a team with Bill.

I could see Kai as a third scum here, since both Bill and Jarizok say that we should ignore his lurkiness, but that also seems too easy.

Going through to see if I can find other people that fit as well together as those guys.

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Now, bed time.

 

Baffled.

I love that word.

Let's not lynch fluff today.

 

There's also mechanical reasons why I don't trust proph.

^ Judging by this you can imply 3 things:

1. Mafia have safe claims to claim instead of their actual characters.
2. Mafia have been randed as safe townie characters.
3. Mafia has an ability to crack down on people who claim too early.

Zenzao, you say there's not likely this souper role in the game, so would that mean you think 1 or 2 are more viable?

What's a safe claim than Harry Potter?

Why would town ever claim Harry Potter?

Proph claimed it like it was no big deal.

I feel like Proph has a higher chance at being Vanilla Mafia than Vanilla Town.

Mafia, if given the character of Harry Potter, would always claim it early.

Why can't 3 mafia be Harry, Ron, and Hermione?

Also, I don't know if this helps or not, but I've only watched the movies.

Mal, another thing to think about is with Proph having the Harry Potter character claim, wouldn't he feel confident about being able to get out of any lynch so he could dare to be more risky?

Also, claiming vt is kind of bad imo. You don't do it, because it narrows down the pool of who the PRs could be.

now back to getting ready for work.

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*safer

Mal, let's think for one moment. If you were mafia and had the character claim Harry Potter, would you not feel like you could do anything this game and get away with it?

This is why we be wary of Proph.

He knew he had a way to get out of the lynch so he wasn't worried about it. (kind of like me being priest last game)

 

Citrus In my post I postulate B) as the most likely for Proph’s lategame actions followed by my reasons why I think it might have been worth it in the eyes of the scumteam (Mal’s refusal to lynch main wagons etc.). If Proph ISN’T scum, I see only E) as a viable option but then the Delphine flashwagon makes sense. I mean, Proph either thinks he’ll be able to contribute to the game and gets a scumread of his lynched, or he lets us lynch him to help with votal analysis and such. However, what happened was we lynched Delphine and Proph still goes V/LA. He predicted this, so for town Proph it’d always be better to let himself get lynched rather than go for the flashwagon? Regarding Proph’s alignment with Owner… Proph saved Owner yesterday, simple as that. I’m reading Proph scum, so Owner is also scum, otherwise Proph’s actions make no sense (saving a PR claim and drawing attention for a Delphine kill?). You say Proph’s play is pretty much the worst he could’ve done in scum!Owner+scum!Proph world but I’ve already explained why it could be worth it for them. Noone’s commenting on that part of my post though…

Yes, my vote was indeed supposed to be valid.

Vote: Prophylaxis

Mal wants to run Bill v Kai today. I’m not happy with lynching either, not because I’m convinced they’re both town but because we’ve got more reason to lynch Proph or Majube than we do for Bill or Kai. I went back to look at their posts and while Bill comes of slightly scummier than I had him in my readwall, I’m nowhere near convinced. Kai is starting to post a little bit more but it’s still short posts without much reasoning or explanation and I can’t read that. Also, lynching 1 of the only 2 people that DIDN’T vote Delphine yesterday feels wrong. We goofed lynching a townie and now we lynch the only people who didn’t run right along with the rest of us? I know it’s mostly because they just weren’t in the thread at the time but still. Mal’s ‘flip it around’ comment doesn’t do it for me, I’m convinced more scum did vote Delphine than didn’t.

Kai actually says something useful and votes for Proph, which gets him towniepoints.

Owner totally figured out the scumteam. Lets give up miner11121 and Prophylaxis. Seriously though, I’d feel bad if Proph flipped town and then we’d decide against lynching Owner tomorrow
Mallorean Thug When did we settle that Proph is town? You have a strong Metaread of Proph in #915, wouldn’t that mean that Proph could possibly know your plays ahead of time as well? Which leads me back to my own post and my claim that scum!Proph+scum!Owner would make the play they did based on your D2 lynch policy. I’m sticking with my Proph vote for now. I’d be willing to shift to Majube if necessary at EoD, voting Bill is not yet acceptable, I’d need more info.
his fluffiness Pleased to baffle you. I claimed Proph was towny initially but then new information caught up with me. I was writing it as I go, you see my thought process in my #844.

 

Hi owner, I would lynch the shit out of a Harry Potter claim if it was from somebody that I thought was scum. I am putting zero stock in that.

And please no mod gaming. You're over thinking it.

Jarizok, what you just described again is not how mafia games actally tend to work. Like, at all. I still haven't decided what that means about you, but please take my word for it and unvote Proph. I would be more willing to lynch owner today than proph.

 

Mal Just because what I've described hasn't happened, doesn't mean it couldn't happen. The logic is sound and someone would have to be the first to do it. I'm fine with lynching Majube like I said, but I'll leave my vote where it is for now.

 

Can we stop trying to lynch owner until d3? Like I'm not particularly happy with the way she's spamming up the thread and the tunneling, but I want her checks d3 anyways.

 

Miner, you'll note I'm not trying to lynch owner. Like, your plan is not mechanically sound for a whole host of reasons, but there's solid votal analysis reasons to leave owner alone toDay anyways.

Jarizok, mafia is a game about behavior. Saying "just because scum teams don't actually think like that doesn't mean that they can't" is the "best" kind of true. Technically true.

So, if Proph flips town, you'd be willing to clear owner? Like you only think owner is scum if Proph is? And you only think that Proph is scum if owner is? In that case, aren't we resolving the owner case toMorrow? Why would we lynch Proph before that? Why not try to lynch the third member of that scumteam, or hedge and lynch assuming that both are town? Who do you even think is scum in the world where both Proph and owner are town?

 

Hey owner, how good would you normally rate your reads as Town? Like have you ever had a scum-team pinned pretty early on?

I like don't even know where to begin with your proposed scum-team. Like it feels like you're straight up playing darts and you suddenly decided your last dart was a bulls-eye and now you've decided you're going to throw the rest of your darts with your eyes closed after spinning in place three times.

Half your reasons literally don't even make sense. It's not even cherry picking, it's flat out *grab something where A mentioned B, say something about how they're interacting like scum do*. You're not even explaining mindsets AT ALL. Like you literally just clear "Oh A would totally read his scummates as B and C" and "Oh C would totally read A and B as town" and decided that those statements LEAD to the conclusion that A+B+C is the scum-team and wtf am I even reading I don't even

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Like D1 end you went into hardcore flail mode throwing votes and accusations in every direction. When prompted for a readwall toDay, you basically fence-sat on almost everyone. And THEN you decided that a random subset of players is the scum-team and completely ignore EVERYONE else and then literally make stuff up about the random subset to justify it.
his fluffiness
You think Owner and Bill Door are unaligned then? Or aligned? Or etc.?

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owner
Proph + Miner + Jarizok all are mod-announced as Town. Top 2 town-reads, top 2 scum-reads outside of that. Who would you think is very likely town, who do you think warrants pressure AND WHY

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What are your thoughts right now? Because on the one hand you say the game is sluggish and bad, on the other hand you're not really doing anything yourself. You said you would review wagons, but you haven't really done so yet?

We have multiple leading wagons and some of them are on people that still aren't posting. Whatdo

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Unofficial Vote Count 2.04

Prophylaxis (4): Majube, kaiDASH (#869), Owner (#888), Jarizok (#926)
Bill Door (4): mallorean_thug, Zenzao, Citrus, Fluffiness (#921)
Majube (2): Prophylaxis, Bill Door
Jarizok (1): miner11121

Abstaining (1): The Waco kid

The Waco Kid
So turns out the leading wagons are basically Proph + Bill Door, not Bill Door and Majube. Thoughts on the Proph wagon?

miner11121
Either give a case for Jarizok, or move your vote. Your vote is floating

Bill Door
Prophylaxis is V/LA til the day of Day end. Why should we lynch Majube? Should we lynch Prophylaxis? We have two days left, what do you want us to do with them?

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Other than specifically Bill Door's reaction to Owner's role-claim, what do people think in terms of are they aligned scum, scum/town, or town/town?

 

Citrus miner switched his vote to Majube directly after kai comes out a ties the votes among bill, proph, and Majube. Miner's vote made Majube have 4 votes. me voting proph made 4 votes. since then waco has unvoted and jarizok has moved his vote to proph.

 

In my defense I'm blaming the fact that he placed the vote in blue right before a read-wall with town-reads in blue, but I think I'm going to stop trying to do this early in the morning. Fixed Miner's vote

CORRECTED Unofficial Vote Count 2.04

Prophylaxis (4): Majube, kaiDASH (#869), Owner (#888), Jarizok (#926)
Bill Door (4): mallorean_thug, Zenzao, Citrus, Fluffiness (#921)
Majube (3): Prophylaxis, Bill Door, Miner (#878)

Abstaining (1): The Waco kid

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Thanks Owner

 

Citrus, here's my greatest feat when it comes to reads.

http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/636-Teen-Wolf-Mafia/page126#6263

from Apoc

That was a year ago. I haven't matched the feat since. Mafia swept the game, but I kind of rage quit at the end too. So maybe part of it is my fault.

 

mallorean_thug Please elaborate on why my plan is mechanically flawed.
owner I moved my vote because he has no wagon and I'm one hundred percent on a Majube or Jarizok lynch. We weren't at all close to hammer anyways, so me moving my vote to Majube does nothing. Making him the majority wagon means nothing. Plus, Majube isn't even the majority wagon anymore.

 

We lynch majube, don't lynch proph. I don't see any world in which scum proph doesn't agree to lynch owner d1. Majube has consistently made just about every new scum player mistake there is.

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When did I actually suggest a scumteam?

 

Can you outline some of these newb-scum-mistakes, even in summary-level if you can? I remember hearing you say this before, but I don't remember you bringing up specifics

The main two things I remember wrt Majube are that 1) he posts fairly prolifically (which is unlikely for newb!scum) and 2) he hard-hammered Delphine (in the last bit of time of Day)

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Jarizok
We didn't know what Delphine was at that time though. In hindsight, obviously we now know Delphine is Town. That logic doesn't hold. Or do you mean in retrospect he knew he wouldn't get lynched in that position even offering himself up? But that just ties back to whether scum!Proph would do that or not.

Yes at that moment that was a short-term +EV plan, but in the long-term how does that work out for a combined scum-team? They both live for D1, but they're now tied at the hip from that move for the rest of the game, and everyone's going to be eyeing them from there on.

What do you think of Owner hard-pushing on Proph on her scum-team of 3? You seem to still think they're co-aligned even though she's doing that? Isn't that even more evidence that they're not co-scum?

Like do you think she's purposefully trying to hard distance from him? How can you still believe so strongly they're co-aligned with how Owner's now playing wrt Proph??!

 

Okay, now that's actually a fair point Mal. If we lynch owner tomorrow and she flips town my theory is wrong. Lynching Proph today is therefore an unnecessary risk of mislynch...
Finefine, I'll go

Vote Majube

I still think that Proph and Owner are scum with Majube, but if they're not, Majube is simply scum in another team. Bill has become a little scummier. Citrus has become a lot more active but not necessarily more townie. Zenzao and Fluffy are still townie and Waco has joined them. Kai... I have no clue what Kai is. Miner could still be scum, but he's kinda faded into the background for me. If Owner and Proph are town, then Miner is likely scum. That leaves you Mal. I'm not sure what to make of you because you're playing more with mechanic's and "things that have always worked" rather than playing because of reads you're getting. I'll group you into null with Kai.

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Citrus Well, I'm not sure what to make of Owner's play today anymore. It doesn't fit with my theory but I still think she's scum and I still think Proph is scum so. Maybe Owner is pushing on Proph so hard because she hopes we won't lynch Proph D4 when she flips Scum D3? I honestly haven't looked too hard at Owner's posts today because I was already convinced she's scum. If she flips town tomorrow I'll go back and reread everything she said of course but for now it's probably just misdirection.

 

Lots of omgus, jumping on the delphine wagon late just to be there. post #345 in general. A lot of getting angry when people disagreed. He was very active when people were focusing on him, much less so when attention switched to owner/delphine/me.

 

General question for everyone, how many years have you guys been playing mafia?

Me: about 4 years when Christmas hits