Drachna What Taure meant was

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Your thoughts. [/spoiler ] With no spaces in the brackets.

 

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The movie answered some questions I had about the difference in skill between a wizard like Grindlewald and a commen auror. With Grindlewald easily fighting up to thirty aurors at a time it gives you a much better idea of the power of somebody like Lord Voldemort whose power was not shown to its full extent in the movies. I hope that Fantastic Beasts's sequels will show the final dual between Dumbledore and Grindlewald. I liked it's portrayal of a legilimens and the International Confederation of Wizards. Over all the movie was promising and I cannot wait for the next one.

 

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The more time goes by, the more and more bitter I am feeling about Depp's awful portrayal of Grindelwald compared to Colin Farrell's excellent performance. I just don't understand how they could have made such an awful casting decision.

This YouTuber covers it well.

 

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Pretty much the first time we see Graves I immediately went, "Fuck, Taure was right." His easy mastery if wandless magic was the big tell.

I loved Queenie and her being a natural Legilimens. To me it opens up so many doors. Wizards can change their appearance with magic, Tonks can do it naturally. The same now applies for Legilimens so theoretically it could apply to a whole slew of magic. Rare as all hell but still there. It opens up a lot of nice avenues regarding magic.

I really wanted Newt to be considered badass when I saw him put that building back together like it was nothing but then the Aurors at the end did the same and I can't help but feel like they were beefed up too much. I get that it's for visual effect but still, one if the beat moments in HBP for me was Dumbledore casually putting Slughirn's hideout back together. It emphasised just how good he was. Now that feels cheap.

I didn't mind any if the romance. I thought it was all handled tastefully without distracting from the movie and fuck anyone who thinks Jacob is like Jar-Jar? Fuck right off. I loved him.

Also, everyone needs to calm the fuck down about Depp. We saw like twenty seconds of his performance and we don't know near enough about Grindelwald's character to say he isn't unhinged, in fact it's likely he was.

Yeah he and Dumbledore were friends but Dumbledore was a lonely, frustrated kid with a crush. Grindelwald was charismatic. We know that. He doesn't need to be stone cold serious. Every dark wizard we see in canon is unhinged.

5/5 would watch again a few times.

Nifflers, Bowtruckles and Queenie for lyfe.


Oh and for anyone who hasn't heard, Redmayne came out and said the next movie will probably be called "Fantastic beasts and..."

Best case scenario is wartime Ironbellies.

 

I watched the movie a couple hours ago and I must admit I'm actually pleasantly surprised. I was expecting something bad but I really enjoyed the movie, it did feel great, and I hope the next ones keep the quality up with this one.

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First of all, the movie was indeed entertaining, I was into it the whole time and actually had a great time with the bits of humour.


I think what I liked the most is definitely the display of magic. There was clearly a lack of it in the original movies, and it was amazing watching magic again. Also, I think they nailed the extent it has for the most part. At first I felt like they did things too easily - the reparos were well beyond what we saw in the movies and required no effort at all -, but I think it is like it should be. Harry's perspective of magic was very limited, so watching Dumbledore with Slughorn would still be amazing for him.


I couldn't help being reminded of Ariana when they introduced what Obscurus and Obscurial were, and although they mention none has been seen in the last centuries, given the description I still think Ariana might have something to do with it. After all, her family was hiding her because she was dangerous and couldn't control her magic.


I was a bit bothered with Queenie's legilimency skills at first, because it felt like a natural ability, as if she was born with it. However, I guess some people can have some predispositions for certain abilities, but it didn't look like she was very knowledgeable either, so it felt weird she could excel at it while not showing any other common skill. I guess we have Lockhart for that as well.


The displays of wandless magic were also bothering me until I knew it was indeed Grindelwald, at which point it only felt right. I really was fearing they were going to ignore canon and make characters capable of it as they did in the movies. As for Grindelwald, they really did a perfect job of showing the superiority of wizards like him or Dumbledore over the rest. Plus, Collin Farrel nailed his personality - at least in my opinion. Depp, however, somehow managed to make Grindelwald Jack Sparrowish -which makes no sense for me, I don't get why would he be a little crazy-, and the looks didn't help, I don't like them at all.


Finally, I liked Newt, as he was not a typical likeable character and neither utterly incompetent, and the fact that they give him some background as well.

 

Going to see it tomorrow at the Cinerama.

 

I'm going to see it this afternoon. For those who have, 3D or standard?

 

So, I went to see it last night, and I really wasn't sure what to expect when I went in.

I really, really enjoyed it. I'll admit it wasn't perfect. The story was a little disjointed in parts, and it leaned on a few of the tropes that we've seen beaten to death in fanfiction, but it just had a warmth to it that was irresistible.

The acting was very good, Colin Farrel was the unexpected standout for me but everyone brought their A-game.

The magic was probably one of my favourite bits. It felt substantial, and it was so nice to see magic being wielded by competent adults, and the way they used it was great. We've seen Molly Weasley doing magic around the house, but the domestic scene with Porpetina and Queenie just showed how much witches and wizards simply breathe magic in their everyday lives. It's not a kind of fairy dust that gets sprinkled over every day things, as it so often is in fanfiction.

The beasts were fun, though ultimately they weren't that important. I do, however, feel that the Niffler could have been a lot fluffier.

There was a very brief mention of Newt's brother, Theseus Scamander, and I thought I heard someone ask 'the war hero?', Then, 'no, it's his little brother'.

Now, to my knowledge, Grindelwald's attacks haven't, at this point escalated to anything that might be called a war. So what war are we talking about? Wasn't it part of the Potter's backstory that wizards were at least nominally banned from getting involved in World War One, which was meant to be a purely muggle conflict?

When I get the movie on DVD, I'm going to have to go back and stop-frame through the entire newspaper sequence.

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Finally, I was a bit disappointed by Grindelwald. I need to watch it again so that I can listen more closely to his spiel in the train station, but it doesn't quite seem to match what I thought I knew about him.

For the time being, I'm going to assume that the ideological differences between what Dumbledore told us, and what Grindelwald talked about in the movie, are mostly down to him playing to the crowd (either misleading Dumbledore, who himself even thinks now that he was being mislead, but had blinded himself to it, or playing up the fears of the American Aurors with all the muggle talk of new Salem).

We did get perilously close to "Gentlemen, my lady, you will always remember this as the day you almost caught Gellert Grindelwald!" Also, Graves had the administrative power to have Newt and Porpentina put to death immediately... why are they even going to try to imprison Grindelwald? Dump him in the big pool of burny memories and be done with it.

Finally, while the Obscurus was okay, and the effects were good, it does mean that we have yet another 'big black cloud of evil' as the main threat in a blockbuster movie.

 

On the 'which war' question, presumably the same one Newt served on the eastern front in.

 

Just saw it. Loved. Every. Second. I don't even know where to start. I'm breathless.

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I thought Colin Farrell was excellent, that goes without saying. And I was very skeptical about Depp as Grindelwald, but the very brief glimpse we get into his portrayal at the end actually didn't rub me the wrong way. I've always pictured Grindelwald as brilliant, but given to moments of mad-genius crazy zaniness with a flair for showmanship, so his bizarro look/act didn't come out of left field. Hopefully we'll get more of a rounded, nuanced show overall and not just the wacko-jacko side.

Stream of consciousness, incoherent rambling review coming up next.

Things I loved. The world-building. Eddie Redmayne. The comic-relief elements. The story, for the most part. The magical creatures (the erumpent, the thunderbird, the bowtruckle, the niffler!). The fact that we got more action scenes than in most of the movie, and that Grindelwald's ability to take on scores of Aurors by himself was casual ease confirms my theories that someone like Voldemort would just plow them similarly, and explains why he was so feared.

It's a theme we've seen since the start of Harry Potter so it wasn't too jarring, but why are authority figures/groups in HP so terribly incompetent most times? The MACUSA and Graves' summary judgement and near-execution of Newt and Tina and Jacob without due process. Several of the needless chase scenes could have been taken care of fairly quickly with magic. The apparently limitless capacity of the magical trunk, from merely being a very enlarged storage/housing space to housing nearly complete ecosystems and habitats. I thought the breadth of wandless magic was also kinda broken, though the revelation that Graves is Grindelwald does make it make more sense.

Also this might be just me, but I'm near-100% sure Dumbledore shows up in the movie. Not physically at least, but at the scene at the ICW meeting when Newt pops out of the trunk, I'm almost positive Dumbledore is one of the first to say his name, and Newt rises with this sheepish grin on his face. The voice sounded so much like Gambon's. Or might be just me.

Also, with the obscurus - there's an Obscurus Books in canon, the publishing house for Fantastic Beasts itself, I think.

/end ramble

I hope the subsequent movies really keep up the quality that this one brought. So happy we're finally getting the Dumbledore/Grindelwald tale I've craved for years.

 

RE: which war?

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It's World War 1. Newt talks about Ironbellies on the Eastern Front when talking with Jacob about "the war" which at that time means the Great War.

Also, on the matter of Grindelwald's epic confrontation, we don't know for sure that the wizards he was facing were all Aurors. Indeed it seems unlikely... certainly there were Aurors amongst them, but I'm fairly sure that MACUSA mobilised more wizards than just the Aurors in that end sequence.

 

Power scales are kind of a thing now too, actually. At least according to Graves when looking for the Obscurus.

 

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Characters in HP have always been described as being more powerful than each other. What I and other people have always been on about is not a denial that there's such a thing as magical power, but rather what factors determine that magical power. I don't think that there's anything in FB that fundamentally alters the discussion on this topic - that is, there's nothing to say that Credence was born powerful as opposed to developing into a powerful wizard as a result of his character, experiences, etc.

 

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I was mostly disappointed when I left the movie theater. I liked the world building, atmosphere and how the American magic world is so different and more mature than the English counterpart. They also nailed the 20s feel on the head, but for the rest... the characters feel all kind of flat: sure, Newt has all these intriguing tid-bits of background and the concept of his character is interesting, but the acting just doesn't deliver it to me.

The Jacob-Queenie's romance could have been a great way to explore the social discrimination against NoMag from the magical world - there's a couple of hints to that at the beginning, and I really wish she had obliviated him on the roof to protect him - but ends up being the usual teeth-rotting sweet nonsense between comprimary characters.

I liked Queenie's focused Legilimency, though the whole idea of her going around the MACUSA and technically probing everyone's minds for the darkest secrets of the US Magical World and nobody either realizing it or limiting her acces is a ridiculous security breach, especially with the Grindewald panic such a pressing matter. Newt chasing the animals around is funny, but he could have saved himself and poor Jacob a whole mountain-load of issues if he just apparated around like he does in combat.

The biggest plot-hole, however, is how the mass-Obliviate-deus ex just happens to erase (not replace, mind you) just the memories pertinent to the Credence incident and not just turn new york in Allock-Central for Mass Amnesia. More so, everyone not directly exposed to the rain, say anyone indoors, seem to be affected immediately as well (I'm guessing humidity)... save Jacob for the convenient goodbye-not-goodbye scene, all the Aurors as they go around restoring stuff without the umbrella spells and all the Mages who just breath the same air as everyone else but are either immune (then why Queenie's Umbrella) or have an invisible Bubble-Head charm around them (then why Queenie's Umbrella). Not even talking about how nobody bothered to Obliviate the Bank's personnel, Jacob's silver eggs or how the Aurors weren't hard on Newt's gang heels after the mobster scene.

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Overall it feels like a lot of potential wasted. The trailers and the beginning of the movie set the stage for a lot of controversial and rather interesting topics - Grindewald's ideology against the obsession on secrecy, the Nomag discrimination outside a teenage school context, the inadequacy American child-care system and child abuse, the whole animal-protection doctrine championed by Newt - but it delivered on almost none.

The 'plot-twists' were telegraphed from miles away and Colin Farrel's character, probably the only one in the movie to really have some meat under all the smoke, is squandered for a lame reveal moment that introduced the 'Big Baddie' Grindewald as another crazy-Depp-character, who threatens to take down the sequel movies a notch or two even before the trailers are out.

EDIT:

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Also what happened to the Sudanese Obscurus? It it still floating around the MACUSA? Did Farrel/Depp hide it away for later use? Are we to assume they destroyed it when Grindewald was looking for another throughout the whole movie?

I'm also kind of curious about Grindewald's Visions, the one he talks to Credence about. Are we going to have a proper Seer this time around rather than Cooman?

 

Just got back from the theater.

As someone who dislikes the other Potter movies, I have to say I liked this one.

Also, I did not mind the reveal at the end and I disagree with people's fears that he'll ruin the character.

I mean,

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Depp had only like one line as Grindelwald. That's way too little to judge. I think we should give him a chance.

 

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I had an interesting thought about Depp as Grindelwald. What do people think if in every sequel Grindelwald is played by a different actor until the final showdown. Grindlewald as a shape shifter/metamophmagus could be an interesting premise.

Shit, sorry.

 

So much for putting things in spoiler tags, eh Peter North ?

EDIT:

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I think the idea has some merit. Would love to see him played by several people.

 

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I heard Newt say specifically that they still rarely occurred around the world. I believe the madame president was referring to the states

So, I just watched this and I really, very much enjoyed it. I've never called Harry Potter the best story I've ever read, although it is the story that I have most re-read and the story that has most affected me through to today. Like a lot of us I bet. Watching this just brought it home to me. It was never about Harry, it was about this world. And this is worthy. This captured that same wonder that hooked me.

Having been attempting to catch up on the HP re-read, I felt some of the same things watching this film that I did when Hagrid turned up at the shack and an owl with a coin purse officiously hassled him for money. There's just so much personality in HP magic.

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And it's because of this that I felt so much sympathy for the no-maj (and he didn't have seven years of being Petunia Dursley to cast against him either). He was us, the viewer, wasn't he?


Anyway, the film. Although the magic was still a lot flashy bang bang (maybe he was still trying to pretend to be a talented wizard, but I can't imagine Voldemort or Dumbledore taking more than two spells to batter down anyone not on their level in one-on-one fight) when a wand was involved, and the obscurus was a big cloud. It was still fantastic. There's so much richness here, and like all the HP books I'm sure there'll be some chekhovs that JK will bring up as time passes. Every one else has discussed the film and the best bits, so I won't say anything unnecessary beyond:

1. I loved the niffler - Trying to guess which creatures were which, and learning more about them was fantastic.
2. Miranda Flairgold did thunderbirds better..... :fire
3. There was a lot more darkness than I expected. That death penalty...

Regarding the wider arc, with this being the rise of Gellert Grindlewald. I loved the opening - whatever that was, we will surely be seeing again, so it'll be good to see Farrel again - and the newspaper title sequence immediately made Grindlewald feel like the old-timey world threat he was supposed to be.

They gave us just enough to be tantalising at the past and the future with what we already know. Although I can't guess why he was the head auror, I feel that we're going to slowly learn what has happened him to since Ariana (who was likely herself an obscurus). A failed war, in which he likely participated (from Newt, it sounds like everyone participated and they're going to really emphasise the world at war angle, because this is a global wizarding story). He has gone seeking sources of power beginning with something similar to Ariana, so that he has the strength to project his will on the world. He's on that part of his Voldemort quest where he's becoming more inhuman and more unhinged (sorry Taure). This will culminate in the acquisition of the elder wand.

It's unfortunate he will have to be inferior to Voldemort, but as long as Depp doesn't play him too insane, it'll be good to have a more human villain.

 

One of the greatest things, I think, about the 'Harry Potter' books is that it juggles the wonder of the Magical World with interesting characters, with the latter taking precedence. If you look at Fantastic Beasts and want something like that, then it makes it seem even better.

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As for the Grindelwald twist: as predictable as it was, I loved it. Not only was it foreshadowed, (both with Grindelwald's philosophy taking precedence and 'Graves'' curiosity about Dumbledore's connection to Newt) but the actual character of Grindelwald was portrayed as almost-Shakespearean. Here's the scene in the script book:

GRAVES strides confidently back along the platform, firing spells at both groups of Aurors facing him. Spells fly back at him from all angles, but GRAVES parries them all. Several Aurors are sent flying - GRAVES appears to be winning... (I remember a post saying that it wasn't just Aurors who Grindelwald was handing their asses- this proves that he is superior to entire groups of Aurors. Just imagine this guy fighting Dumbledore in the 5th movie!)

In a split-second NEWT pulls the cocoon from his pocket and releases it at GRAVES. The Swooping Evil soars around him, shielding NEWT and the Aurors from GRAVES'S spells, and giving NEWT time to raise his wand.

With a sense that he's been holding this one back, he slashes it through the air: out flies a crackling rope of supernatural light that wraps itself around GRAVES like a whip. GRAVES tries to hold it off as it tightens but staggers, struggles and falls to his knees, dropping his wand. (Please notice that the script makes it clear that Grindelwald is fighting the spell, hinting that the spell almost has no effect. It's subtle lines like this that make it clear that Grindelwald is dangerous even when restrained, possibly foreshadowing his escape in the sequel.)

TINA:
Accio

GRAVES'S wand flies into TINA'S hand. GRAVES looks around at them, a deep hatred in his eyes.

NEWT and TINA slowly advance, NEWT raising his wand.

NEWT
Revelio.

GRAVES transforms. He is no longer dark, but blond and blue-eyed. He is the man on the posters. A murmur spreads through the crowds: GRINDELWALD. (Can I just remind you that in the movie Grindelwald looks almost ghost-like, pale and with white hair and a Hitler-esque moustache.

MADAM PICQUERY moves towards him.

GRINDELWALD
(with contempt)
Do you think you can hold me? (Notice the similarities between this and the OotP Dumbledore 'I could escape Azkaban easily, but that would be unnecessary' line.)

MADAM PICQUERY
We'll do our best, Mr Grindelwald.

GRINDELWALD stares intently at MADAM PICQUERY, his expression of disgust turning into a small, derisory smile. He is forced to his feet by two Aurors, who move him towards the entrance.

As GRINDELWALD reaches NEWT, he pauses - both smiling and sneering.

GRINDELWALD
Will we die, just a little?

He is led away up and out of the subway. NEWT watches, bemused.
As you can see, Grindelwald is not fazed at all by this; he is constantly in control even when he is apparently at his enemy's mercy. Even when he could be facing death, he smiles and laughs in utter hilarity- just like when he was threatened by Voldemort himself, Grindelwald proves himself to be the largest threat in the room, and that is a factor that is going to be amazing when faced with the calm, benevolent atmosphere of Dumbledore when they finally confront each other. Also, what do you think he means by 'will we die, just a little'? Something about muggles exterminating Wizards maybe?

And finally: Grindelwald's speech:

(after the Obscurus' 'death':

GRAVES:
You fools. Do you realise what you've done?

GRAVES seethes as the others watch him with interest. MADAM PICQUERY emerges from behind the Aurors, her steely tone, unquestioning:

MADAM PICQUERY
The Obscurial was killed on my orders, Mr Graves.

GRAVES
Yes. And history will surely note that, Madam President.

GRAVES moves towards her along the platform, his tone threatening.

GRAVES
What was done here tonight was not right!

MADAM PICQUERY
He was responsible for the death of a No-Maj. He risked the exposure of our community. He has broken one of our most sacred laws.

GRAVES
(laughing bitterly)
A law that has us scuttling like rats in the gutter! A law that demands that we conceal our true nature! A law that directs those under its dominion to cower in fear lest we risk discovery. I ask you Madam President-
(eyes flashing to all present)
-I ask all of you. Who does this law protect? Us?
(gesturing to the No-Majs above)
Or them?
(smiling bitterly)
I refuse to bow down any longer.

GRAVES walks away from the Aurors. (notice that this confirms Grindelwald took on groups of Aurors, not just some MACUSA officials that I believe was suggested earlier)

MADAM PICQUERY
(to the Aurors flanking her)
Aurors, I'd like you to relieve Mr Graves of his wand and escort him back to-

As GRAVES moves down the platform a wall of white light suddenly appears in front of him, blocking his path.

GRAVES thinks for a moment - a sneer of derision and irritation crossing his face. He turns.

He then proceeds to solo around 20-30 Aurors. I'd also like to point out that this makes Grindelwald's intentions clear to the audience, and his plan (to incite a war between Muggles and Wizards) can be easily inferred.

 

I could say a lot about this movie, how much I liked it, the tone, the etc etc... but one main thing stuck with me since watching it...

How great was it watching a competent protagonist?!? Breathe of fresh air...