You elaborate in post101. You'll notice I don't post between those two because I didn't have an oppu rtunity to.

He's hedging his opinions on everything. Vaguely throwing shade and Tom, cobalt and you but never following up on anything. Held his vote on cobalt then tom all game but isn't pushing it or anything, or even willing to commit to saying he wants to lynch him.

I'm just a simple boy trying to lynch some wolves.[/QUOTE]

When did I throw shade on fonti?

 

When did I throw shade on fonti?[/QUOTE]

That wasn't the only question you asked and then didn't follow up on though.

Shade on fonti here.

 

That wasn't the only question you asked and then didn't follow up on though.

Shade on fonti here.[/QUOTE]

Holy goddam fuck. How many people do I need to correct on that? That was about people giving negative tells on me, i.e. indicating that they would be happy to lhynch me, in response to miner asking why I was worried about getting lynched today.

 

Show of hands - who at this point is seriously considering Bill/Quiddity worlds?

 

Meh, I'm not sold on Bill being hairy.

 

I mean, it's also why I'm town. As scum I can totally throw together a case based on scraps and scribbles - miner would have been a good option, because it fits with earlier statements, there has been some mozying around him as a potential lynch, and there's enough in both directions that throwing together a scum read would be simple. The reason that's not happening is because I'm not scum and struggling to know who or what I should be targeting.

But anyway.

Vote Cobalt.

Cobalt's feel has been wrong all game. Right from the start, the interaction with Von seemed forced, and then he goes right on to blow up on Jarizok. This is still a vaguely RVS stage, but he takes it massively farther in each exchange, until Bill calms them down. He focuses in on the vote on him and tries to look at it in each angle as more nefarious than the last. In particular, the final note of the exchange:

Seems very disingenuous. There's no expectatioin that anyone is going to be researching for this game, but he uses it to basically dismiss Jarizok entirely: your arguments are worthless because you don't know me or care to research me. And it works, too. That's basically the end of that probing, even though I agree with Jari's principal point about the feel of Cobalt's posting.

After this he turns up again and talks about lynching me, despite not having been pushing me at all earlier. This isn't scummy in and of itself, but I note it because of how I think scum would approach my growing wagon above. It also kinda fits with a Cobalt/BD connection as that wagon isn't considered, and his earlier interaction with Bill is kinda obsequious.

Then he jumps on me a while later with this

Again, no concern for Bill, for the fans of that at home. The Jarizok question is also odd: he makes a connection based on my inquiry (which, to be clear, was about the relative placement of BD, not Jari), and what from Jarizok? That earlier scummy exchange is the only thing I see.

The vote too is kinda lazy. Jump on the leading lynch, without really contributing to it, and hasn't been around since.

So yeah: Cobalt ftw! He doesn't seem concerned with solving the game so much as appearing to be doing so, he has some questionable Bill interactions for the fans at home, odd exchanges with Jarizok in which he tried to basically intimidate him away from questioning, and leaping onto my lynch as soon as it's popular without much of an indication elsewhere.

---------- Post automerged at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

Do scum get daychat in these games? Reexamining the Bill-Cobalt connection, and I could see it as Bill telling him to calm down as he was behaving suspiciously.

 

Oh god that dumbtell

It's a little gross but I'm kinda buying it :/

Unvote

 

I wasn't responding to it. I just thought it was hilarious that miner ask if your read on a player that was mostly absent has changed when said player is replaced by Newcomb and posts half a hundred times.

Because I thought it interesting that someone was below Bill when it seemed like we were the only ones getting considered by the town.

---------- Post automerged at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

Dumbtell, Newcomb?

Also worth noting that Cobalt has declined to comment on Bill at all.

 

No.
/tenchars

---------- Post automerged at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

These wagons are still fine.

---------- Post automerged at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

A little over 5 hours left.

 

Bill, why is Cobalt of the 'bad early, confusing since' variety less scummy than Jarizok, who you only dislike because he hasn't contributed meaningfully in a while, but was good early on?

---------- Post automerged at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

Well look at it like this. Assuming that cop isn't openly crumbing their role about, and you've a what? 1 in 7 chance of hitting them? Maybe you can cut some people out, but it's still low, and if you miss you've got 2 cleared townies in the best case, 1 uncleared in the worst AND you've not cleared a good townie.

Whereas, if you go for someone strong like fonti, and lay the grounds for them to be cop'd early on than a) you've still got a half decent chance of hitting cop, and b) there's a good chance that cop hits your kill, in which case no cleared townies and, as it's one-shot, no chance for any more.

---------- Post automerged at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------
Newcomb do you agree with my case at all? Do you think it possible to swing the lynch onto him?

 

Buying because there are other options or you're feeling confident on it?

 

Because there's only 5 hours and I'm feeling much more willing to lynch Bill, but I feel like a lot of his scumminess is interactions with Cobalt rather than inherent.

 

But as town you'd also be trying to get the person you think is scum lynched. Like if you think Cobalt is scum what was stopping you from making this post 6 hours ago? Why wait until someone pushes you into making it?

Scum could throw a shitty case together or they could try to lurk the day out while people focus on other people.

---------- Post automerged at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

Because I think Cobalt is unlikely to be aligned with you.

 

Because I just came off a 6hr night shift 6hrs ago, and had time to briefly reread the thread and correct like one thing before collapsing.

Like, I feel like 30% of peoples reads on me is me being out of practice and making dumb mistakes, and 70% is me not having time to respond at all/properly.

 

Have some random thoughts.

- The way Cobalt evaluated and then re-evaulated but still poked at Jarizok's vote on him is has a nuance to it that makes me believe he A) doesn't know Jarizok's alignment and B) is trying to figure it out. I strongly believe Cobalt to be town.

- The way fonti offered a Kalas townread early, then asked tom for reads, then pushed for specificity of those reads lacked the aggression and bite that's usually a part of scum!fonti's game. She's also tried to kind of direct traffic without taking over the game, and when she did shove against someone, she didn't get dismissive or overblown. If this is fonti's scumgame it's a pretty deft meta switchup. Which I wouldn't put past her, certainly. And there's also at least a chance I'm specifically getting pocketed by her. However, I'm townreading fonti more strongly than I have on D1s in the past.

- Cobalt and Jarizok are lock not w/w for this exchange. It's too prickly and guarded to come from two people who know they're on the same team.

- Looking at Miner's early game posts, I feel like he's falling into a meta-trap here. Especially with the way he continually harps on Cobalt's MM7 play. Basically, he's using meta in a very shallow way - "player X was Y alignment in this game, and he is/isn't acting like that here, therefore Z." Meta is actually a pretty fantastic tool, but for example when I talk about fonti a few lines above this one, that read is fundamentally about what I've learned about fonti as a player, fonti as a person, how fonti approaches games and how she thinks, from playing with her a fair bit. There's a lot of shorthand that goes into that read; it's not necessarily a read for other people, it's a read for me, that I'm being transparent about. Make sense?

While I do feel like at this point you're probably more town than not, if you actually are town here, you're basically taking a line that's very easy to fake as scum. That is - asking a ton of questions, talking about meta in a shallow way, picking at minutia while ignoring broad-strokes gamesolving.

TL;DR, I think you're probably town but you're playing in a way that's pretty trivial for scum to fake.

- tom and Von are kind of lumped together for me right now, insofar as I think they're slightly >rand town, but I want them to be town more than I actually think they're town. Von's had some good lines, some lines I'd be a little surprised came from scum!Von here, but not exactly floored. The townread I have on him is something that definitely has to be maintained. Von's scumgame is characterized by fear, for the most part, and I swirl his posts around in my head and that element - or trying to hide it - doesn't really stand out. Tom, it's more like I'm agreeing with what he's saying and he doesn't really /fit/ with the likely scum.

- On my first pass through the game I thought this Koalas post made him nearly lock town. It was something along the lines of, if he was going to doubtcast that, he'd have done it in a different way, but engaging with Bill's "too peppy for 3A" with a line directly about how scum is a higher effort role just felt incredibly town in a "he actually thought about it and then answered" way. In retrospect I really don't know what I was thinking, that's an incredibly thin read. Anyone medium-to-strongly townreading Koalas should step forward at this time and explain their read.

Seriously. Give it a shot.

"Getting people talking" is really not the goal. "Getting people to do alignment indicative things" is the goal. It's not just "not a particularly interesting question," it's a question that I have real trouble believing you thought might actually drive the game forward or do anything meaningful. If you really honestly just wanted people to talk, you'd have asked him a random fluffy question. The question you asked was tinged with an element of seriousness.

And like... I didn't read HP mafia except the flips, but weren't you a wolf that game? How on earth do you think you're helping your cause, there? "Well yeah I asked an empty question, but look here's me asking empty questions in a game where I was mafia, so it's cool."

???

___

Some new stuff happened while I made this post; stand by for adjustments.

 

What's your opinion on these posts then:

 

If you're scum/scum I don't think he hesitates before bussing. If you're town and he's scum there's even less reason to hesitate. I think it makes most sense from town cobalt.

 

Okay so I'm pretty tom's a wolf here.

This is tom trying to seal in the gamestate, not tom trying to understand the gamestate through his own particular brand of shitposting and fluffing.

Which makes the stuff he was agreeing with me on a pretty blatant open pocket attempt, which feels shitty, but there it is.

Vote: tom

Quiddity, I disagree with your Cobalt case. I think he's not playing, like, a particularly strong towngame here but the way he's poking people, particularly Jarizok, is coming from a town place.

I think Quiddity himself is more town than not at this point; the dumbtell is a big part of it but his resistance (and then grudging acceptance) to the BD wagon when he himself was the counterwagon is also not a play I see coming from scum there.

I think fonti's town in ~most~ worlds.

Bill Door is, hnnnn. He's got some tonally town posts but the thing fonti pointed out was legit, and his "you're all going to look dumb when I flip town" is pretty classic fearmongering. Plus, tom's been pushing the Bill/Q world but voting Bill; in wolf!tom worlds he's trying to chain a mislynch off his partner. Although that Bill post that reminded me so much of Snowvon's rapid fire "I'm scum oh god I have to fake reads" MM7 thing is pretty clearing for both Von/tom in scum!Bill worlds? I thought it was at that point, need to look at it again.

Koalas and Jarizok are my hipstery scumreads at the moment. I could see scum!tom shielding his buddy exactly like this. And Koalas could fit with pretty much anyone atm. Maybe not Bill. Yeah actually the amount of times they went back and forth on that 3AM read would be super weird for scum there.

So:

tom/Bill

tom/Jarizok

tom/Koalas

Bill/Jarozok

 

I get this, and it's convincing.

BUT it's also different from the reasoning you gave earlier. You said that he didn't make sense from my buddy. Here, it's just independently towny.

 

But I just said it doesn't make sense if he's your buddy...