I'm worried that the last two lines of Jans #1916 are him knowing that he'd be the person cc'e because if he's not there's never a need to quote more softs.

Don't entirely believe that Q wasn't aware of Jan having claimed in #1936 and again in #1940.

Jans not wrong in #1953 in that he wasn't entirely unwilling to claim earlier in the process whereas scum want to be as late as possible. He's also not wrong in the fact that out of everyone in the game that's left unclaimed it's Q that CC's him makes more sense with Q as scum.

Do want to take a quick meta look to see how much Q's stance on rolehunting he actually believes in his #1954.

Vons right in that Jan is probably a bigger threat in terms of winning this via a soup as scum. Not sure that's a strong enough reason to lynch based on alone though. Think I just want to aim to get this right even if it means putting effort into a game we probably win either way.

Phases of Q's first line in #1996 doesn't come across well.

Going to go through the rest of the game (Mostly just look at the confirmed scum & the two unclears) in the next few hours. If anyones around bouncing thoughts with them would be useful. Based on the last ~3 pages alone I'd vote Q over Jan though.

---------- Post automerged at 04:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 AM ----------

I have a really weird theory re; Q's #1676.

---------- Post automerged at 04:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 AM ----------

Eh, tested it; nothing there.

---------- Post automerged at 04:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 AM ----------

Finished going through the entirety of D3.

The fact that Q's initial reaction towards the cop guilty initally was just a naked vote on Jari in #1660 before getting to a "Good work guys" type post in #1664 makes some sense coming from scum, his #1668 is slightly more genuine as is #1671. Q's #1676 is a very town motivated post, it's posisble scum does it for town cred but I like the inclusion of it, same goes for his #1699.z

Jans entrance after the whole guilty reaction test, Jari claim ect. is very underwhelming in #1721 and I'm not sure I buy the "Scum not putting a night kill in" belief in #1763, in fact it's a stance I really don't like from him.

Going to start going through D1/D2 now based on D3 this won't be easy.

 

I did a D1 reread on Jan before stopping. Bed now.

Spoiler

Mathblade is the only player that fonti lists that Jan doesn't comment on.

Points out something in this, but still defends here.


Doubts the miner stuff here.

I wouldn't normally point that out, because it's before my/Typhons case gets going, but it's worth noting because Jan goes to sleep after this, and then avoids commenting on miner for a good while afterwards.


Wall puts miner and Mathblade low, but immediately undermines that by saying only mixed feelings split them off. No explanation on miner, says he'll vote Mathblade for worldbuilding around one player: mostly an OMGUS, with room for them to back out of it. Need to recheck, but I believe he'd led with the same as a town point earlier?

Gives Math room [urlhttps://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=961209#post961209]here[/url], and then backs off them not long after.

Makes me think that Jan was really umming and ahhing on if he could save Mathblade throughout the day.

I really don't understand the play wrt. miner, I'll have to ask you about that after the game. I mean, he avoided the lynch and discussing it at all until the eleventh hour, where he's suddenly a scumread?

Seems he was kinda waiting for someone else to provide an alternative to Math/miner, until Regfan turned up and solidified it.

 

For everyone that knows me.

Read Q's last post.

Tell me that I behave like that around my possible teammates, ever.

Most of you guys have played with me and know at least 1-2 scumgames.


Even in the horrible witchhunt on fantasystrike, I play and react different towards them .. and everything went wrong in that game.

---------- Post automerged at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Q basically dug his own grave right there.

 

Gone over D1 myself;

I do want to state that I wanted Jan lumped D1 for a reason

Miners #172 directed to Jan makes him slightly more likely town -- doesn't come across as a read on a partner, admittedly this is a fairly weak point. Jans #238 on the other hand makes sense as scum trying to set up a weak town read on Math. Jans reads / lump placement in #836 makes sense with Miner/Math too in that he doesn't want to lynch or lump Miner, I find his vote on Math in #849 to not mesh with his reads and would fit with him realising he'd need to buss Math here. Jan pointing out why Miner could never be priest in #1047 is nice in that he made sure that a priest CC never needed to be made there.

Q's #264 is an impressive amount of early bussing and distancing if scum. Miners #452 directed at Q is something I'm doubtful of whether a partner would make to another, similarly I like Q's #463 and the continuation of the exchange in #469 and #480 and #571 all point towards Q probably being town. I don't know what to make of Maths comment re; Q's alignment in #548, would like others to chime in on it. Qs vote on Fluff in #562 make some sense as scum with Math/Miner, especially while lumping Miner and his pop in agreement in thinking Turtle could be mafia in #800 makes sense as mafia for the same reason. His reaction to my replace in of wanting to lynch Miner / Lump Math in #959 is something I question coming from mafia.

Taking a short break then going to read D2 & Q's & Jans two posts above.

---------- Post automerged at 07:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 AM ----------

Eh I might as well post exactly where I'm at and update it as I go through, that way you guys can respond to my concerns / thoughts about both of your play and have others let me know which they think I should remove from the list;

REASONS TO LYNCH Q:
- The fact that he CC'ed Jan makes more sense with him being mafia than Jan managing to claim Q's exact role.
- It's very plausible that Jan did indeed know to shoot Fonti and would have done so.
- Qs vote on Fluff D1 over Math/Miner makes sense as mafia with them looking for a mslynch.

REASONS TO LYNCH JAN:
- More likely to solve this via soup.
- Q's reaction towards Fontis fake guilty outside of the naked Jari vote was decently believable.
- Jans entrance after Fontis claim / Jaris claim wasn't great and his belief that scum didn't submit a kill is hard one to buy.
- Q's push, case and interactions with Miner D1 are something I see less likely from a partner.
- Jans reads and actions D1 in regards to Miner/Math makes some sense as mafia, admittedly don't know his meta at all.

Keep in mind this doesn't involve anything from D2 yet.

 

I'm going to bed, will do a full re-read after I get up.

The only thing I wanted to comment on is, I really don't put much stock in the "I would've shot Fontisian" thing. Yeah, Jan know Fontisian better than the average, but 1) that's really revisionist, 2) something that could have been set up to hide behind 3) this is DLP where Fonti gets shot a lot, so it's real easy to say that. It's just as likely Fontisian was left alive for paranoia purposes and it backfired on them

 

Fair. The only reason I included it in my list was because it was a point that Fonti had brought up herself (Rather than it being something that Jan said), I'd like to trust that she knows what he is/isn't more likely to do in regards to her more than I would.

 

Hey Regfan, hey!

You have read up on stuff right?

Like other games.

Have you read american gods by chance?
You can see very well how i behave around partners if I feel they are going down.

I am actually around right now to talk, if you still want to. Rereading Q. Fairly boring since making a case when you know someone is scum is kind of boring.

I will give him that all his early stuff reads well. Parts of it too well, not sure how to build a case on it.
He is focussed on very few people for most of day 1.

The comments he makes about others are fairly few and nothing big like :

Will look at the "post more with me" comment in a minute to see if that is an actual thing or just him hiding his tmi behind a mask.

---------- Post automerged at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

Honey.

I know my work and I know how to look for a priest.
This d3 would have not happened.
I am fairly certain that I could have forced a d2 claim if I wanted too.
(the pressure was already there, I just decided to not go for it at the time, because I already knew)

Or just not hit the clown n3 like a big old doofus.

---------- Post automerged at 14:11 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

Miner and Quiddity are trying hard to interact as to not get read as partners.

Good for miner. New players are afraid of such a play a lot of the time.

 

Jan - Hey! I have only read two games here, AYAW4 and part of Mini Mafia 6 and I'm probably not going to do a huge meta dive when this is likely a win either way; I'll just let those that do know you well enough comment on that. I have got myself a cup of green tea and probably two hours before I go to sleep so I'll be getting through the remaining sections of the game in that time.

---------- Post automerged at 08:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 AM ----------

And you're not wrong if the Miner-Q interaction is scum/scum I'm fairly impressed that Miner did so well in that regard and it'd be just another reason to be impressed with Q's scum game, at the moment though I think it's more likely that it wasn't a S-S interaction; his D1 looks significantly better than yours for the most part.

 

Which would never ever happen to me as scum.

Believe me or not, but looking good as scum is one of the best and easiest things to do.

You might actually want to listen to the people who know me.

Von things I am town. (and he doesn't even have a good read on me normally)
Fonti thinks I am town.

Typhon actually got a townread on me this game, which almost never happens.
And that read was for my behavior not my position on wagons or how I behaved with other scum.


The only thing I can get Quiddity d1 is his interactions with miner are just a bit much and a bit forced.
Him fucking up the mention saying @ miner without the numbers two times is a very nice touch.

His questions interactions with his partner are more in depth than with other people who get a light probing for the most part.
But I don't even know If that is an actual thing or if I am seeing it because I know.

Regfan - when looking through d2.
check on how my reactions to the fonti thing and tell me that I could not have swung the lynch around and that I did not hard defend her.

 

N1's actions are where it heats up, the Failed Soup on Jan has two and only two scenarios with the situation we're now in;

1) Jan realised that Math was probably going down at some point very soon and realised that he needed to get some form of town cred to take this deeper against the amount of players near lock clear after the Miner lynch. He thought that making this move would buy him 2-3 days or at least put him later in the claim list so that he might be able to get a soup chance for the win later. This isn't an unreasonable scenario, I'd consider it slightly suboptimal but understandable give the game state at the time.

2) Q caved into Math's DOB read on Jan and decided to shoot him in hope that he'd be on a target that wasn't Math or less likely Q himself, he then hoped Math would successfully pull of a few more soups before dying thinking their flip would still make him look good. This seems like a fairly odd avenue for Q to take as scum given he was already in a good position and a role like the priest is what's more likely to hurt them, not a DOB. It's not implausible that Math strongarmed him into this though. I need to see what he's like inside scum QT's to better judge.

---------- Post automerged at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------
Jan - I'm very much willing to hear from those that know you well (Fonti/Von ect.) in regards to what they think of your play/meta once all the analysis and information has been provided to them, their read beforehand doesn't mean as much to me. And sure I'll keep that in mind when reading D2.

---------- Post automerged at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

Amusingly I'm listening to Dilemma at the moment.

 

You will barely get anything from Q's d2 i think .. just skimmed over it and there is barely anything there.

---------- Post automerged at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

I am watching friends .. more friends every day. all day.

 

Wow, you better not have spoiled this D2 read through. I was hyping myself up to get to it.

I sure hope Phoebe still isn't growing on you. Outside of her smelly cat type songs I find her very irritating.

---------- Post automerged at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------

Americans should be waking up shortly to help me with this.

 

If you believe that town!Q has an almost perfect game.

Scumreading two scum for the first two days and then coincidentally being the one role that is able to counterclaim the last scum.

Then I will have trouble changing your mind, because his play has been built for exactly that. And scum might win a game that they should have lost most of it because you guys decided to make it a claim game today and then fucked up the finish.

I am around to talk .. but looking over d1 I don't think I can make a good case.
People that know me should know that Q's case on my game for d1 is never my d1 scum game.
And funny enough his d1 game is fairly close to what I do as scum if I feel that my teammates are going down.

---------- Post automerged at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:55 ----------

Phoebe is okay ish .. I dislike almost everything in regards to her family and all that, but I do like her comments overall.

Character is fun, almost everything surrounding the character is meh.

---------- Post automerged at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------

You can read about me.

Q has 50 posts d2/3 combined. not a lot.

 

Jan - I'm not going to fault or lynch Q because "He's been too accurate", not a reason I'll scum read him for. I agree entirely (And have mentioned this multiple times) that the fact that it's the person after you in the claim order (Q) that CC's makes a lot more sense with him CC'ing as mafia to avoid having to CC a potential clear or universally town read player.

 

If you think scum!me does make it this hard to win the game then you have no idea how to play the game.

Kai was most likely DoB, I could have cced fluff before, have the same information that I have right now and almost never get lynched.

This play barely makes any sense for me as scum and it makes all the sense for Q.

 

It'd be one thing if I think he couldn't have had the reads when he did but I had the Miner read at the same time as him with the same reasoning when following along and others had the Math read as well so it's not implausible he's just been accurate early on as town. The fact that Typhon(?) and possibly another one or two people shared both reads proves it's possible town can end up at those reads. It certainly doesn't clear him by any means but it's never something I'll count as a point against him here.

 

I am not saying you should lynch him for the first part.

Like I cannot make a proper case on him and I know it. I looked through his iso and unless i missed something there is not a lot there.

He has been on his teammates for basically all of the game.

I should be cleared with all the information we have .. but people are generaly more afraid of me making plays. Which is nice .. and stupid and useless in this case.

---------- Post automerged at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:12 ----------

You cannot get him for that. I tried. Nothing there.

His read on fonti d1 is very bad.

His early interaction with kai was awful and kait caught him there, most likely without knowing it at the time.

You cannnot get Q on the stuff with his teammates, because he knows what to look for.
Look at other people.

 

I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at anymore. I've agreed with you several times I think Q's claim does indeed make a lot of sense as scum. This has been recognised and is listed in my reasons for why he makes sense as a lynch.

I also agree that as scum you don't care about waiting for Kais claim given he was already an outed DOB. I think as scum you could potentially have CC'ed Fluff and possibly even got him lynched (Though I'd honestly have contemplated voting you over him, mentioned this earlier but I saw zero scum motivation in his play today), I also think as scum you could have thought you might have been able to out a claim from Waco/Q before you were actually forced to claim and thus helped with the soup even more. Either away I don't think you not CC'ing Fluff is a clearance by any means.

---------- Post automerged at 09:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 AM ----------

I have been looking at his reads on other people? I've mentioned that his suspicion & vote on Fluff/Demon makes a lot of sense coming from mafia D1. I'm looking at everything inside both of yours play, not ignoring or ruling any particular thing out. My minds pretty open.

 

Oh right now I am basically clawing at everything and anything that comes to mind to maybe find somewhat of an additional reason.

Not that much of thinking, more pure brainstorming.

 

Experts agree - my tremendous brain allows me to know all the things, believe me.