My Jesus comment was pointing out that Harry is the Jesus figure. "He died for their sins" ring a bell?

 

I am not sure Harry's heart ever stopped, so i don't think he ever died. That whole part is strange.

 

Ron's a kid that did some stuff that he probably isn't proud of. At the same time he threw himself into many life or death situations to help his friends. Can any of you say you would willingly let a 6 foot stone figure bash you over the head so your friends can move forward at age 11? How about taking on the most dangerous people in the country on the word of your friend saying he had a vision at age 15?

No Ron's a complicated kid, but he's not an asshole.

 

I don't really like the character, but he is what JKR made him.

He abandons Harry under the erroneous belief that Harry had entered in the tournament. The tournament was dangerous, but when a man like Dumbledore talks about eternal glory and everyone around was only considering the fame and glory participation will bring, knowing the character who always wanted to stand apart in the spotlight, its not difficult to understand why he would assume the worst of his friend.

Harry didn't have a plan and Ron wasn't trained in survival tactics. He was homesick and the horcrux was whacking his brain. He just wanted the comfort of his family. Ron was never presented as a character who could bear hardship and even when he abandoned his friends in a moment of weakness, it wasn't out of character. He did come back in the end, and that had always been a character trait of Ron. He might wander a little, but in the end, he comes through.

While ' the Bro Code' precludes one from doing it with their best mate's girl, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Ron made a wrong assumption and he apologised for it. Harry and Hermione forgave him and took him back, that was their prerogative.

Ron and Hermione weren't romantically involved and Lavender was an attractive witch. Ron took his chances and got some, if Hermione didn't want that to happen, then she should have said something. In book 4, she told Ron that he had no right to be jealous of Krum because he didn't have the balls to ask her out for the ball. Hermione might feel hurt but her own logic applies and she should have asked Ron out.

Ginny is Ron's sister, and he was playing the responsible older brother.

Ron is a character with a number of flaws, but so are the other characters. You are being selective about Ron and you can find a lot of fanfics with Ron bashing to sate your own desire for it.

 

1. A kid not fully appreciating all the hard work their mother has to go through to raise them? Wow, how fictional and unrealistic.

2. Er, Harry bought that candy on his own initiative. Sure, Ron grumbled a bit about the sandwiches, but it was all Harry's idea to buy all that candy.

3. How dare Ron, ask about the Scar like literally every other character in the Book does! He should have acted more like Hermione, who geeked out about Harry and listed all the books she read about him in.

4. Speaking of which, Hermione can be more than a little annoying at times to them, like in HBP. And she can be a pretty terrible friend to Ron and Harry, like ignoring the fact her cat is trying (and seemingly succeeds) to eat Ron's pet. And believe it or not, Harry can find Hermione pretty annoying at times too. He even finds it boring to spend so much time in the library with her.

5. Like I said before, he privately and politely asks Harry if he put the name in. Literally everyone ignored the warnings about the Tournament and assumed it was just a chance for gold and glory. And when Ron did realize how dangerous it really was, he immediately apologized to Harry in full view of everyone else.

6. Also, how convenient you ignore seven years of presumably good friendship to Harry and Hermione to focus on those few instances where he argued with them over stuff. I mean, it's not like real friends have spats over stupid things in real life but eventually reconcile.

7. Do you have any siblings? Do you have even the slightest idea what it's like to have an older sibling that keeps doing awesome stuff and everyone compares you to, or a younger sibling that's forever the baby of the family everyone just loves? To always be hidden under their shadow, to be on some level envious of them, to feel conflicting urges to either follow their footsteps and prove you can be just as good as them or just try to carve your own path and do something in your own right?

Because as a middle child myself, I have a damned good idea what that kind of childhood is like. Do you?

8. Yeah, doesn't the Epilogue (or even Cursed Child) just scream that sort of marriage? Where Ron is in any way abusive towards her, and she cries about it but doesn't leave him?

No, wait, that honestly sounds more like some dumb FanFiction that just knows Harry and Hermione are absolutely meant for each other and are destined for a terribly written romance, usually where Hermione is the one who bosses Harry around while Harry follows every word she says like a good little dog.

You know what? This weekend I'm going to start compiling a Defense on Ron into a more proper essay. I'm getting sick and tired of constantly defending him from people who probably haven't even touched the Books in years and only think of him (and most of HP, for that matter) in terms of what FanFics and Fanon have turned him into: there's a reason the trope 'Ron the Death Eater' exists.

 

Ron is definitely not an asshole like already mentioned he has his flaws but his positive traits far outweigh them and flaws make characters more intersting.

That being said I still don't find him intersting at all and not all that likeable either. The problem I have with him is that the is a stagnant character he really doesn't get much character development at all after going through the shit that the trio did in 7 years you would think they would get a different perspective on all kinds of topics as they grow up or atleast go through several charcter arcs in 7 stories yet they all are basically the same people they were at 11.

Which is a major let down, even your average joe who is never in life threatining situations is a very different person from the transition from childhood to adulthood.

The same of course applies to Harry and Hermione who imo are also boring one dimensional characters even Draco and Neville got more development than any of them.

It really is a wonder that I still really like HP since I don't like all three lead characters.

I just find it strange that JK almost never gives any character development, I think she is too attached to the characters and doesn't want to change them which imo is mark of bad writing. Almost all development that happens is off screen, Ginny and Neville becoming more confident or in the past with older characters James, Dumbledore.

That is why I find the adult characters in HP far more interesting they have good backdrop storys and went through arcs and became different people, I also don't have as much a problem with them staying the same in the present since adults don't change as much as teens growing up, still more development would have been nice.

I just wished JK would have made the leads more complex. I didn't have a problem with any of them and liked them all well enough when the story started off but as the story progressed I became bored with them.

I also personally don't really like people like Ron irl. I think we would be friendly to each other but I wouldn't become good friends with him since his flaws are personally annoying to me.

Another problem I have with him is that he really isn't funny imo. JK often uses Ron as the one to lighten the mood and attempts to portray him as the funny one but almost all his jokes really fall flat to me or atmost get a smile out of me.

That probably has more to do with me personally than since many find Ron funny but I just find JK not funny at all, the only characters I actually find funny in HP are Dumbledore and Luna who aren't even really supposed to be the funny ones, there were only very few times I found the books actually funny and the times she actively tried to be funny like Fred and George insulting Voldemort with there Jokeshop sign utterly flopped to me.

All that said people really don't have to make up fanon shit or demonising Ron for a fault or two to justify there dislike for him. I just don't care for him because I find him underedeveloped, boring and his flaws annoying.

 

Once again, some haters rant on a thread about someone based on a few specific isolated incidents without considering the character as a whole.
Lots of people like Rhaegar I and BTT have made great points in defence of Ron, I will just deal with some of the remaining points.

Nope, Ron did NOT have a good childhood. He was ALWAYS overshadowed by everyone else as in his older brothers and baby sister, and his mother was always comparing him to his older brothers. They were horrible for his self-esteem. Also you kind of realise that as far as Ron can see Harry was treated better by his own family than himself? Maybe that’s cause for jealousy? If you want to compare him with Hermione, remember Hermione never had a family that treated Harry better than herself.
Harry didn’t complain – I seemed to remember he actually did complain a lot in OotP and he was always expecting his best friends to support him but how often has he cared about what his best friends were doing? Let’s see what has Harry done right? He showed little to no care for Hermione in PoA when she was horribly stressed out, did not appreciate Hermione sticking by him in GoF, was capslocking to his loyal friends all the way in OotP, acted like James Potter in HBP by hexing people for fun, cast an unforgivable in DH unnecessarily and showed no remorse, was generally just an incompetent and reckless leader before Malfoy Manor in DH leading his friends to mortal peril. Not saying I dislike Harry but there’s just a brief list for you.
Just one point about Voldemort – Ron DID NOT HAVE TO deal with Voldemort. He could have walked away and not risked his life anymore and his family whenever he wanted but he did not because of his loyalty to Harry.
Not much difference between Ron and Draco? I mean did Ron repeatedly wish Hermione was dead? Did he try to assassinate Dumbledore and hand Harry to Voldemort? Was Ron a bully to other people and abused his prefect power?

After this you have no response at all to all those times when Ron was not jealous of Harry which confirms your complete delusion. You do realise Ron’s jealous episodes (actually only one – the Triwizard tournament) all happened before Voldemort returned right?
Lol Harry should kill Ron? Merlin that’s hilarious. I thought Ron was busy saving Harry’s life or risking his own life to help him for Harry to lose Ron among other things. But hey what do I expect from some delusional hater who could not even assess a character’s good AND bad traits? Lol.
NOTE: I do not consider everyone who dislikes Ron to be delusional, only those who repeatedly lie about him and deny the amazing things he did for his friends.

This ridiculous idea of Ron getting jealous of Hermione or wishing she worships him – show me one time where Ron was jealous of Hermione’s academic brilliance and intelligence. While you are at it, please explain why is it that Ron was always praising Hermione. Also if you think Draco is better for Hermione than Ron because of his supposedly “shitty” behaviour than you’re a hypocrite who ignored what a horrid person Draco was but anyway. Ron never expected Hermione to stay at home like his mother or worship him. Tell me when did he ever showed that kind of sentiment?

So what do you call that scene when Ron stabbed the locket Horcrux then? Also why is this even an issue in his relationship with Hermione? When did Ron ever get jealous of Hermione’s successes or intelligence?
They have separate careers – If the joke shop continued like the way it was shown in the books then Ron would probably end up earning more money than Hermione over the course of their respective careers.

Ron didn’t mature. I think we already talked about it in the Ron/Hermione but you clearly forgot so I will give you the list of mature things he did again:
1) Coming to the realisation that he actually prefers a plain nerdish bookworm as a girlfriend who can challenge and make him work harder over a girl who seems to throw herself at him, worship him and satisfies his desire for “physical experience” but couldn’t seem to have an intelligent conversation
2) Stabbing the locket Horcrux showing that he overcame his jealousy and worst fear that his girlfriend preferred his best friend over him
3) Going from an attitude of the “house elves are happy with their current conditions so leave them be” to one where their safety came first because they shouldn’t die for humans
4) Leading the Trio in the search for Horcruxes after they came back from the Lovegoods and motivate and encourage the other two to take action while Harry was obsessing over the Deathly Hallows and basically abandoned the quest
I could go on but you should get the idea. Just one last point here: everyone, even adults who were happily married, have immature, childish moments. If a few immature moments meant the person in question shouldn't be in a serious relationship, there wouldn't be many marriages left in the world. Therefore don't go judging Ron based on some supposedly immature moments from him.

OK so in DH Ron told Harry they were wasting time during the camping trip from hell (which only happened because of Harry’s recklessness btw) because Harry does not know a lot under the influence of the Horcrux. He was completely correct there even though Harry refused to admit it. Then Harry got butthurt himself and told Ron to go home (what a great leader huh? end sarcasm). Then they had a fight and Ron stormed out but regretted it as soon as he left and wanted to come back ever since. Where did his inferiority and insecurity came in?

You do realise it just doesn’t make sense right? If Ron wanted to impress Hermione why wouldn’t he tell Hermione elves should be saved at Grimmauld Place after they saw Kreacher or at Shell Cottage? Why would he wait that long and then was speaking to Harry not his girlfriend (yes, I do consider them to be boyfriend/girlfriend at the end of HBP)? At least you recognised he needs the benefit of doubt.

 

Ron wasn't horrible to Hermione right off the bat.

She was the one who came in and decided to announce that Ron's spell wasn't very good, on the train to Hogwarts, embarassing Ron in front of Harry.

Until Halloween all her interaction is either making a point of how much she is learning, or criticizing Ron and Harry for breaking rules and saying if they're caught, she's throwing them under the bus.

Ron's response is WHY WON'T U LEAVE ALOEN PLX

yeah, he snaps (to harry) at Halloween, but he just states something everyone knows. Hermione overhears, and then Ron feels bad about it.

At which point Harry and Ron save her and Hermione learns something from the experience and has a bit of self-reflection, and a friendship forms.

 

I think you probably need to read more of my posts to understand why replying to that was potentially unnecessary. Then again, some days I don't even know whether I'm being serious...

However, I'll humor you with a devil's advocate response.

The key word there is "saved."

Kreacher wasn't in any danger at Grimmauld Place. He wasn't in any danger at Shell Cottage (and, spoiler alert, Dobby was already dead). Who or what are they saving house elves from in either of those places? Were the doxies going to come out of the curtains and kill Kreacher? Did Bill look hungry for house elf?

I suppose it could have been the danger of the crushing loneliness of Number 12 from which they could have saved Kreacher. "Hermione, luv, I know Kreacher calls you 'mudblood,' but if you'd just give him a quick handy-J, I'm sure his attitude would turn right around. You gotta save him from this dry spell he's stuck in."

On the other hand, Hogwarts was a battlefield, overrun by death eaters. Plenty of physical threats to 'save' house elves from in that environment.

Again, the key word is "saved," not "freed from their imagined bonds of servitude." We're not talking about 'freeing' them from a condition the elves suffered since their introduction in the series, and thus was relevant at Grimmauld, relevant at Shell Cottage. It's not about storming a dungeon and unlocking the elves' shackles so they can return to their native homeland of Elfistanislavidaricalia, it's about saving them from immediate danger.

There was nothing in Grimmauld or Shell Cottage to save an elf from, and Ron suddenly popping up with "Let's save the elves!" while they were in either of those places, especially because they had bigger and more immortal fish to fry, would not have lead to Hermione passionately offering to bear his ranga rugrats for him, but instead to his friends binding him and handing him over to Luna so she could check him for Wrackspurts.

She was right there. Speaking to someone else makes it look less like a direct attempt to get a reaction from her, and more like genuine sincerity. But that would require someone who can think a few moves ahead.

Like a chess player.
It doesn't take much imagination to think this shit up.


The main point here, though, is this: If you see a monkey about to fling its shit at you (unless you're safely laughing from the other side of the glass), your reaction should be to walk away, briskly, not pull your pants down and strain over your own hand.

Poe's law, though...

 

Warlocke, I am glad you're not serious and yeah I only skimmed most of the responses on this thread given that I was rather late to join the discussion. I read your ginger post and yeah I see where you’re coming from now.

I responded that way I just find the idea that Ron who supposedly never matured or is clever enough to be manipulate Hermione to be absolutely hilarious and nonsensical. Most people who hated him claim that he was dumb as troll or too stupid for Hermione BUT was able to manipulate the genius Hermione to do his bidding? The guy who always wore his heart on his sleeve was able to suddenly fake and manipulative his own emotion? Is he smart, or not?

Alright I am sorry I was not clear in my last post. Saved was not meant to be used in the literal context but in the metaphorical context meaning that Ron could say something along the lines that the elves were great after hearing Kreacher’s pitiful story or started praising the elves after Dobby saved them at the Shell Cottage.

However I guess someone can make weird interpretations of the books that really cannot be disproved. For example, someone could claim that in the epilogue Rose and Hugo are actually Harry’s children and there would be nothing in DH to concretely disprove that if we disregard CC.

Anyway I think we have reached an agreement here so I will stop.

 

Without reading this thread I will post my opinion on Ron.

Of course I think he's an asshole in most of the books!

He was a teenager and that is more than enough for me to condemn him.

Each character had their asshole moments, they made some bad decisions.

My biggest problem with the whole jealousy thing in GoF is that it was Hermione who said anything about it. As I read it, Ron's constant sucking up was more that he was embarrassed for doubting his friend's honesty.

Especially since Harry was the one doing the yelling in that scene and Ron chose to walk away and go to bed. From Ron's perspective, it could have been Harry getting too defensive about his lie. It's been a few months since I've read that book so please forgive me for any mistakes I've made.

But he's still a teenager, so he is an arrogant twat in his own way... we just don't see it that way in the books since it's from an asshole teenager's perspective.

 

This thread is attempting to determine whether a character can be described as an asshole, which is inherently a subjective descriptor with various criterion that differ between people.

Is Ron an asshole? You can decide for yourself! No definitive answer required!

But do make sure to get all that fanon shit smear off your glasses.

 

I can't forgive Ron for abandoning Harry during the horcrux hunt. So yeah that's pretty assholish to me.

 

Yeah, how dare that Ron have to constantly stress about his family in ways Harry and Hermione don't, deal with the fact they have literally zero plan other than hide in the woods, standard teenage hormones making him jealous about Harry/Hermione, and Sauron's Locket whispering poison in his ears that just make everything worse!

It's certainly not like he immediately regretted his decision, only didn't come back due to some delays, joined up with them the first moment he could, save Harry from drowning, defeat his literal demons after saving Harry from said drowning, and accept every bit of violence Hermione threw at him as something he deserved.

Yep, sounds like assholish behavior all right.

 

Ron is a character with jealousy and laziness as his most pronounced flaws.

Overall, JKR's portrayal of people in general is unflattering; some may say realistically. Consequently, Harry has a lot of legitimate beef with basically everyone: the Slytherins, the Hufflepuffs, the Gryffindors, the Hogwarts faculty, Dumbledore, Lupin and the Order members.

JKR takes an approach where Harry absorbs the various slights to prevent initiating hostilities.

However, this is why Indy, WBLW and DL category stories are so popular. They are cathartic where Harry gains power, then essentially takes everyone to task for all the many, MANY issues he has with them. In some stories where he doesn't have the power to punish them, Harry simply leaves Britain to Voldemort's tender mercies.

The question then is why is Ron so polarizing? He has significant screentime which puts his behaviour in the spotlight. The movie portrayal was somewhat unflattering. Fanfiction does a good job smearing as well.

Furthermore in a meta sense, JKR is restricted by what she can write by the time Ron's flaws really get pronounced i.e GoF (most common PoD in Ron bash fics). Ron is a firmly established deuteragonist. A replacement will cost a large amount of pagecount. Lastly, what sort of message will that send to her target audience?

Concluding, Ron has problems. Yet, compared to the other students introduced, he is actually better. Even if his contribution is limited, at least he does help somewhat while the others are either neutral or hindering forces. Unless Harry decides to go solo ala Indy!fic, there aren't any better options during GoF. Post GoF, JKR can’t afford to develop and elevate a new character as deuteragonist.

Tldr: Not really.

 

I would say Ron is incredibly temperamental which makes any of his flaws more pronounced.

If you want to bash him I suggest going for his atrocious table manners and lack of tact in some parts.

Draco would the asshole in any case. Still a teenager but a big asshole attitude.

Edit:
Forgot to add that yes Ron got Harry into troublesome situations just a tad too much than should be allowed from a friend.

 

Again, WORD to everything Rhaegar said. If Ron was an asshole there, isn't Harry an "asshole" as well for leaving his friends in the lurch after returning from the Lovegoods and obsess over the Deathly Hallows for 3 months? Wasn't he supposed to be leading his friends in the Horcruxes quest?

I agree with your post in general even though I think Hermione has probably offended more people (even people who are usually very difficult to offend like Luna Lovegood) than Ron has through tactless remarks.

However I would like to know when exactly did Ron got Harry into trouble; as far I remember it is almost always Harry deciding to go onto a dangerous adventure/mission and Ron decided to tag along. Are you referring to the time when Ron got dragged into the Shrieking Shack by Sirius Black and Harry and Hermione went after him because he was their best friend? If so, all I can say is that Harry has dragged both Ron and Hermione into trouble and danger far more than the other way around.

 

In no particular order:
Flying Car
Accepting Malfoys lame duel invitation in Harrys name
Hagrid's dragon issue to give it to his big brother
Troll(ron and hermoine both in a way dragged Harry even if the idiot is suicidal)
rescuing ginny(all rons idea)

Cant think of another one.

And yes I also agree that Hermoine is worse than Ron and she is also incredibly noisy and meddling always dragging Ron and Harry into stuff that is not of their concern.

 

1. If you're referring to Ron taking the car to free Harry from the Dursleys, then that was Ron risking a lot to help a friend in need. If you're referring to Ron and Harry taking the car to get to Hogwarts, wasn't that Harry's idea in the first place?

2. Yeah, how dare that Ron stick up for his friend under terms he and Malfoy understood perfectly well (even if Harry himself didn't and Ron himself admitted no one could actually do much to each other yet).

3. Er, Ron suggested they take Hagrid's increasingly growing and dangerous dragon to a great dragon tamer. How is that a bad thing? Hagrid was risking discovery, and everything would have been fine if Harry didn't forget about his Cloak.

4. Wait, you're blaming Ron and Hermione for that? Hermione was crying because of something Ron said well before the Troll showed up. And Harry was the one who dragged Ron to save Hermione, not the other way around.

5. So, Ron's a bad guy for caring about his sister? They were going to get Lockhart to rescue her, only then fully appreciated what a useless fraud he is, figure out Moaning Myrtle would be a key witness, and genuinely believed time was of the essence to save Ginny. The stupidest thing Ron did in all of that was keeping that broken and largely useless wand in the first place, and even that ended up saving their memories and Ginny's life.

As a counterargument, should I count the ways Ron outright saved Harry and/or Hermione's lives?

 

I am very sure that was Harrys idea in the first place. Didnt he mentioned Charlie und Ron was like "dude I am Ron"?