So you see the gimmick and think "hmm, this is town behavior"? There's not any substance in his posts that make you town read him?

 

There's nothing in his posts that makes me scumread him. Coupled with the unlikeliness of scum!miner doing what's he's doing is a enough for me to townlean him for now.

 

That is a concern in any game for sure but going 180 and not engaging whatsoever is not the solution/kind of AI. As general game advice its a balancing act and the answers in the middle.

Length/content difference for sure but tone? That's not going to switch just from a change in what you're typing on.

"Over-explainy" is "look at me showing my work" as opposed to showing your work which was the feeling I got from 153 after reading it. Just looking at 153 sent off alarm bells though. It just looks unnatural.

 

Jarizok I think that describes my issue with you, actually. Your thinking feels sort of... undirected?

Take Vira, for instance - you made a verbal commitment to solve her alignment, spent a fair number of words looking at her handful of posts, and essentially had as your final thesis "ehh, I could see it either way".

Or the Cobalt vote thing - you determined he was your top scum read, didn't vote, someone else voted him, and then you immediately followed them on because he was lynched over something similar in AYAW4, and you wanted to add momentum to the wagon.

And now this Miner deal - you basically think that he probably wouldn't do the gimmick as scum, so irrespective of his content you feel okay town reading him.

At best, these things point at you going with the flow to the point that you aren't actually doing anything. At worst, they're scum looking for the path of least resistance.

Show me some critical thought, please. Open up an inquiry in the thread and follow up on it, draw conclusions, act on them, etc. As it is I'm keeping my vote on Rubicon because I'm not quite willing to give up on that line of thought, but I'm equally willing to lynch you.

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Sure, of course, but you have my response. I don't really have anything else to say about it - that's not me being obstructive, that's just what it is. We were in a different part of the game, in a sense - that is, I had shifted gears from an opening where I was waiting on something to engage with and just ironing out mechanical stuff, etc. to having seen something that pinged me that I wanted to talk about. Resultantly, the way I was engaging changed, because what I was doing in the game changed. Everything else is attributable to the difference between phone posts and PC posts, I think.

The over-explainy bit is the part that I'm not going to engage with here. It just is what it is, unfortunately. It's one of those things that apparently is legit, because everyone and their mother have scum read me for it, but it's just how I go about initially grasping the game. I feel like being super clear in where my head is is helpful for me when I look back and you guys to figure out where I'm coming from. It's just something we're going to have to live with.

 

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I haven't made up my mind about Vira yet, that's not allowed.

My thoughts were there for you to see, I'm just not tying myself down yet.

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Good one! I'd like to change my answer. I'm under-explainy. People scumread me for that in AYAW and I got some for it in my first game as well. Of course, I was scum then.

 

I'm not picky about what, I just want you to show some evidence of figuring things out. Like, that you didn't come to a conclusion on Vira specifically is immaterial. It's only a problem when it becomes a pattern.

Idk. I can't tell you what to investigate or have an opinion about, because that defeats the point. But I can say that I can't think of a single position or read in the thread that has its basis in you, which is troubling since you have the most posts by a significant margin. I feel like you're being super "active", but you're not really saying anything.

 

I'm not constructing arguments the way you are, but I get people talking well enough, which is what I, and everyone, use to read people.

It's more instinctual for me. I judge people on tone and inconsistencies. Those are easiest to spot when people are talking.

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Not to say content doesn't matter of course.

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For the record, I had basically this exact conversation with Fonti, Newcomb and Koalas in AYAW.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I know what you're saying but the way you're saying it has me skimming halfway through. The last game I played with you your thought process was completely clear, on point but your posts were not a chore to read. They were.. crisp. The difference is jarring.

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Don't remind me of that headache

 

I'm trying to be conciliatory and understanding in a game that I'm having a hard time getting into anyone's head. I actually really get Tom's "I'm trying to get into this game but having a hard time of it" thing. Like... I don't know, maybe it's a reflection on me, but I feel like I'm having a really hard time finding someone I can talk with?

I suspect Rubicon, so it's pretty hard to bounce ideas there; I don't think there's anything further to say between me and Jarizok; clearly Vira and I don't see eye to eye and she's not particularly present; you feel like I'm being over-explainy (implied that you think that's scummy); Newcomb, HF, Cobalt, and fontisian are away; tom and I approach the game incredibly differently; I can't really engage with Miner with his gimmick; that leaves Waco and Jan. Which I guess is the way forward for me, although that presents a problem because we appear to be on roughly opposite sleep shifts.

And that's not meant to be a "woe is me, lemme just get an AtE out there", but seriously, I'm having a tough time getting traction. Sorry if that's making me a chore to consider, but that's where I'm at.

 

Yay power has been restored.

 

On that note, though, The Waco Kid where is your head with regard to the game right now?

Particularly, how do Cobalt and Jarizok strike you? I know that you feel the same way that I do about Jan (that he's pretty towny), so maybe you can be my sanity check on him calling Jarizok towny and voting Cobalt, because I don't really see it.

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Awesome, nice timing. Give the thread a scan or two when you get a chance and toss me a couple reads so I can get a sense of you, please.

 

You shake your head at town, because you think that whoever thinks your play is a gimmick should be better than that.

You would also like to point out that you haven't used third person in over a day IRL time.

Finally, you think that Jan's wall is confusing and would like to ask him why Typhon moved so far up. You can see that he could be town, but he is certainly not your second highest townread.

 

If having someone to bounce ideas off of will streamline your posts I'm game. Having something direct from you will also help me resist skimming your content. So bounce away.

(Though I am leaving for work in about 45 minutes so initial responses may be delayed).

 

You consider writing down reasons, but decide to link to an older post you made earlier.
#225 - Making Typhon Great Again

You are done with that part and are curious if Miner could think out loud (in thread) on the matter of his his strongest reads and why he thinks they are the alignment he suspects them to be.


Typhon - I am somewhat back, I think. Was just having a nice BBQ and playing boardgames afterwards. should be around my PC for the next 2-4 hours.
Need to get some paper work done, but I am around for any fun and games.
Technically everyone is allowed to talk to me, but Typhon suspected us to be on different sleeping schedules, which is true for the most part.

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Do you want to know why I changed Jari to a townread or do you just want to know if Waco has the same conclusion as I do regardless of my reasons?

I don't think that I have spoken about any reasons in that regard just yet.

I don't want to interfer with an open question to someone else if that is the case.

 

Awesome, ask and you shall receive I guess!

Koalas, no huge rush. We have time. I'll have some stuff I want to discuss with you when you get back (whenever that is)

Jan, I both want to know your Jarizok reasons and Waco's thoughts on them/Jarizok, but those don't have to be in any particular order if you want to fill me in now while we're both here.

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In other words, you wouldn't be interfering. Thanks for checking though!

 

Now I have to actually remember what it was that I liked about him.

I really should write down notes. Most of it was general stuff.

Will relive my memory and write it down in a minute.

 

Cool cool. While you're retracing your thoughts, I'm going to ask you about Cobalt to, so maybe refresh on the nuances there as well, if necessary.

 

Yes. I’d be comfortable lynching Jari if we don’t lynch Typhon, but I’d still prefer Typhon. At the time of those posts, I thought they might be partner interactions, but I need to re-read Typhon and Jari's recent interactions.

I’m going to assume you said game-state. Here’s a list:

Jan
Kalas

Tom
Miner
Rubicon

Fluff
Waco

Newcomb
Cobalt
Font

Jari
Typhon

I like Jan’s activity and attempts to solve the game. Kalas is speaking my mind. I like Tom in general, though nothing definite. Miner’s second-person is annoying, but I don’t see why he’d do that as scum. Rubicon is okay.

I don’t see how anyone can read Fluff as anything but null. He has like four posts. Waco I feel could be more active.

Newcomb has a lot of questions to answer, but he’s busy right now. He can stay in this spot until he’s answered them. Cobalt hasn’t posted much, but over-reacted to his reads being questioned. I don’t like that. Font also says she’s busy, but like Newcomb, I want to see more from her before I put her up higher.

I’ve spoken at length about Jari and Typhon.

Kalas speaks my thoughts on this:

Typhon is overly wordy. I’m iffy about the lengths of posts Typhon makes. Always a long reply with thoughts that could have been condensed. It’s a scum-tell.

I didn’t make that Leeroy. I was the one targeted by the Leeroy in the middle of day one. The scum team then proceeded to frame me and drag my name through the mud for the rest of the game. I was the victim.

This is weird to me. Cobalt has had six posts so far and he’s currently our lynch? Sure, one person can vote him to make him come back here and explain himself, but four? Smells like a bandwagon.

 

Saying this doesn't make it so. You have 1 post listing 3 of my awkward posts and this line:

"The conclusion I drew is Jari is trying to find something to do and trying to appear active. It’s forced."

at the end of a post all about Typhon. That's it.

 

One of the big mistakes after last game was that 99% of the time the d1 topposter is just town.
The owner lynch last game was awful for that reason if no other reason at all.

You don't string up the topposter d1, because even if he is scum he is useful and you might get more infos out of them.
This is only true if you don't have hard evidence really good compeling reasons to scumread them.


Jaris way of coming back into the thread or not leaving for the most part after saying that he does not want a spammed thread like last time is a very very slight towntell.
He set up an excuse to be somewhat less active, but can't stop himself from playing the game.

If he is scum, then he is not the scum I want to kill today.

I had that thought before I posted my first readwall, but I wanted to keep him low to see reactions and interact with him under the premise of suspicion etc.
He was basically around null but an unlikely lynch target at the time.

The towny thing happened afterwards when I asked him about miner :

The initial interaction to put some context to it (in the spoiler)

Spoiler

Check my original post to see the content of the quotes, if you so desire.

And here is his response afterwards :

Jari was all over the thread and active at the time. More active than almost everybody else. He could have made up stuff to give some sort of townread on miner. Not actually that hard to do.

Two things stood out to me here that are towny.

1. He basically blew of my initial prod with not a little bit of care in the world, believing that I was scumreading him at the time.

2. He stayed so god damn vague with his reaction afterwards when talking about his reread later on.
He could have given quotes or give reasons to why miner might be town. He was active enough to know where to look for something. I don't believe someone that active would be unable to fake something good and believable there.

He did not. He answered quick and in a somewhat rough manner to get on with his plans at the time.


Scum would be way more interested to seem like they are actually solving the game. Make a good post out of that, give somewhat of a reason, anything.
He wanted to get back on track and start his project!vira.

I don't know if you guys ever rolled scum and how much you like it. Most people prefer town and most people are glad if they are scum whenever they can get easy questions with anwsers that look towny.
He wanted to get back into rereading people and continue his work.

I am fairly certain that the way he handled my question there is town!Jari.

Even if you don't believe this reasoning, stringing him up today is bad unless you think you have a very compelling case that is not just "he rubbed the wrong way".

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I need to learn how to use less words.

Germans are supposed to be efficient, damn it.