Hello, hello. Nice job with the lynch.

Yo, Cobalt, why did you want to Neighborize Newcomb?

I'm heading into today with a towncircle of Jan, Miner, Typhon, Jari and Kalas. Vira and Fluff are hanging out on the edge. Considering that I've read maybe a quarter of the game, this feels lovely, and leaves me with just Cobalt, Rubicon and Waco.

Also, I can finally answer Jan's thing. I put 500 on the Doc yesterday, when I thought I'd be active and earning a bullet, because I figured mafia would be expecting doc to go to anyone but me and I could then wifom a save (which, with the addition of an early bulletproof and kill) would have resulted in an extra kill.

 

Hi fonti. Your Miner and fluff reads are most interesting to me. What's the reasoning there?

No idea what you expect me to have pushed you for. Being obviously town and having a wrong read on me? How outrageous.

I'm always going to be focused on pushing the people I think are scum. You and Newcomb are not in that group. Jarizok wasn't really in that group either after page 3 or so.

You remember how you stated from the start that you were aware that you could be wrong? When I read that, I think: Okay, here is a town player being reasonable. I should at least take the time to explain where I think he's going wrong. You responded by saying you were just going to move on since nobody else seemed to agree with you. If you wanted me to tear you apart I guess you should have handled that differently.

---------- Post automerged at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

Tom was buddying the shit out of me. It was actually even worse than you say in this post. He was white-knighting me a lot.

It's probably because I called him and Vaimes scum before anyone else in Mountainous Mafia.

---------- Post automerged at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------

He probably thought I would be down for lynching you. Unfortunately I was too reasonable.

 

I'm not sure I can explain the miner read, because it seems so clear to me. Part of it is the eod. Do you see miner ever arguing that hard with people about to lynch his partner?

I think fluff straight forward way of approaching the tom lynch was pretty town, and despite his protests, I don't think he would bus like that.

 

Tom is more of a dancepartner for me than anything else.

He is always putting on some sort of act and I am mostly having fun with him and trying to gaugh his reactions in the long run.

I am fairly unsure on how to handle/read him most of the time, but I know how to have fun with him.

Gone for a couple of hours now.

 

I was thinking Miner might believe he could get away with fighting the Tom lynch because of the running joke that his Tom read is always wrong. Coming off last game, that would be an easy thing to just run with.

I might agree.

He needs to do more stuff though.

---------- Post automerged at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

See #668.

 

While I see that possibility with wrt Miner, you have to remember that in his last scum game he made one meaty post and then got smashed by a lynch wagon. His approach to his next scumgame is not going to be that ballsy.

 

Jarizok was on Tom pretty early, with believable reasons.

Something that jumps out to me while reading his ISO:

I like a few things about this interaction.

The first quote, where Jarizok analyzes Vira, is a well thought-out read. It's got some depth to it, and clearly isn't coming from typical scum who has trouble suspecting town. (e.g: "I have trouble seeing Vira as a level-one thinker.") He's going against thread consensus with an original idea.

Second, even if you disagree with the conclusion or reasoning... from Tom's POV it must look like a solid post. I think if they were both mafia, he would want to encourage his partners to make this kind of detailed, reasoned post. And perhaps to encourage his partners to open new mislynch options (Vira).

Instead he immediately jumps in with "strongly disagree." I read this as Tom trying to position himself, to be seen doing stuff, without any concern for how it makes Jarizok look. That implies Jarizok is town.

Lastly, the part where Jarizok says: "If everyone agrees this is likely Vira then I'll concede the point, but I'm careful to not underestimate her." Is this more likely to come from scum-Jarizok who knows Tom is bullshitting, or town-Jarizok who sees people disagreeing with his ideas? I lean towards the latter.

(Even in worlds where Vira is mafia, this is again a strange thing to say - well really a strange conversation all around, from both sides, but especially this part.)

---------- Post automerged at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

Ooh, this too.

Jarizok is describing exactly what Tom was doing, to Tom. Who does that.

And Tom reads as slightly unsettled by it?

 

Immediate after he did it, to gouge his reaction. Hi pinged me with that post. I've since reconsidered on Vira, because tom's reaction could be because he sensed sensed I suspected him even when he WASN't doing what I accuse him of (Vira could still be maf).

Anyways, I'll be throwing my thoughts and list from last night into the thread in a couple hours. Reactions to D2 posts will come after. FTR, you clearing me is going to end up hurting you Rubi. I've got you as solid town, but we'll be clearing each other so these other guys will be free to read us as scumbuddies.

---------- Post automerged at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

I can actually put out the naked list already to hype my coming posts:

Me

Jan
Koalas
Rubi

Typhon
Miner
Fluff
Font



Waco
Cobalt
Vira

---------- Post automerged at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

2 scum in bottom 3

 

Jan not sure if exact date stamps are allowed but about 20 minutes after Mid Day.
Jarizok Vira is a pretty consistent town read. What are you seeing that we don't?

 

I'll get to it in a sec, preparing my post.

 

They are, but I will check if that fits with mine. I should be able to translate your data by schecking when midday was.

 

Just gonna pop in with a
lynch: cobalt

Be back later. And I didn't forget your question Jan.

 

No worries as long as you don't pull a vanish trick like some others did d1 you can take all the time you need.

---------- Post automerged at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------
Koalas - you are good. in addition I checked when you posted around the time you mentioned and you posted 40 minutes after midday which is a somewhat good fit for your story.

I might still want you dead if the game goes down to final 3, but outside of that you can join the gang.

 

Lynch Vote Count 2.1

Rubicon (3): Typhon, Vira, Koalas
Cobalt (2): Rubicon, Miner

Not Voting (6): Cobalt, Fontisian, His Fluffiness, Jan, Jarizok, The Waco Kid

Player Currently to be Lynched at Deadline: Rubicon

Day ends in ~85 hours of this post when that countdown link expires.
Mid day update is in ~37 Hours

 

Gamestate according to Jarizok, N1 edition

I just solved the game so I stopped making the rest of the post. It's probably unbalanced this way, talking way more about some people than others and stuff, but screw it. Just tacked this onto the top, left everything as is the moment I realised I solved the game.

I decided to do a full reread, looking for interactions with scum!tom.

Since Newcomb died I can skip my thoughts on him, but he was basically townfirmed for nailing tom anyway.

Before we get into the living players, tom's first content post again:

Engaging with Waco and Vira. Is tom gutsy enough to make his first post interact with his scumbuds only? I say yes.

I'll also throw in my first hinting at scum!tom, just in case people decide that I started bussing only after Newcomb started the hype.

Jan
I'm not going to bother justifying townreading Jan.

Koalas
Now this is a more interesting read. It's heavily tied into my Rubi and Waco reads, but tom basically cleared Koalas as well.
Starting at the start,

Koalas is not holding back, being overly careful or anything else that would suggest scumminess right from the start. And he's consistent through that first couple of posts. His pokes at me feel genuine, his frustration/bafflement with me as well, (similar to Font later on in this post).

We did not in fact have this game. What are the odds of scum!Koalas referring me to a nonexistent game? My full game history: HPmafia (me maf), AYAW 4 (Our first game together, Cobalt/Font maf), WH/TH something with Miner/Math/Q scum and SVM.

tom also throws shade at Koalas multiple times, I'll just quote the first time here:

There's no need to do that if they're w/w

Rubicon

People have discussed this pasage and what follows plenty, but my take is that Rubi is feeling Font out with this post, more than anything else. Poking of that nature is in line with town trying to figure things out.

I did not think this all the way through at the time, so

This is a reaction in line with thinking Rubi is actually suggesting we all townread Vira, also looking for a reaction from him. Rubi turns it back on me, I don't give him anything much to work with (scummy of me in retrospect) and we leave it be.

This is the playfulness I'm looking for in townies. It's nothing on it's own, but I'm pointing it out anyway because it contributes to his overall towny image. I'm a sucker for image.

<scum!Waco post at Rubi> this clears Rubi if Waco flips scum. On that note, could we kill Waco today please?
Typhon
There's been plenty of discussion about Typhon's neighbourizer stuff and I went at him for his lack of election platform, but that's been settled. He's probably town, but Newcomb's amazement at Typhon's read of him made me think that may have come to be with some help in the scum thread. tom could have probably helped him fine-tune that post, so I'm not quite ready to lock him in as town.

Miner

This is Miner's response to Waco throwing shade at him. It's noncommital and all, but it's also genuine.

His Fluffiness

It's exactly like town!fluff to pick his strongest thought at the time, throw it out there and just get townfirmed. This is him nailing me in HPmafia all over again. He's probably off on Font being mafia, but the thought process there is identical.

Fontisian

This is Town!Font frustration with me, I'm pretty sure.

Cobalt

Right back at ya.

Cobalt doesn't have much content, but tom engaged with what there was more than you'd expect him to. Also,

Cobalt finds the time to hop on the Rubi case that scum!Waco started as well as spent a second on RVS tom:

He leaves us with:

 

So you going to vote? Or waiting to see what people think first?

 

Good call.

The Waco Kid

 

So, I'm back, and I have a couple thoughts, and then just a hard statement.

Thoughts first, and in no particular order:

1. In a weird way it pleases me that there's some resistance to lynching Rubicon. I learned my lesson from trying (and succeeding) to force town into a lynch that everyone is onboard with with Mal in SVM. If Rubicon had gone down without a peep, I'd have been concerned. But I'm pretty sure in a town!Rubicon world scum know they have to have him as a mislynch, and they jump on this fairly easily for the momentum build/help me hype it up to bury Rubicon. That didn't really happen, unless we believe in a Kalas/Vira scumteam, which, no.

2. If I'm wrong about Rubicon (I don't /really/ think I am, but might as well cover our bases), there's a reasonable chance of Kalas being scum. He wanted my head yesterday, and he sheeped in on this pretty easily, which doesn't seem like something someone who was trying to figure out the game and legitimately suspected me would do? Like I said in my followup wall, tom/Rubicon/Waco seems most likely to me, but that's largely a function of Waco not having a ton of substance and really, really bad vote positioning for that trio. Without scum!Rubicon, Koalas and Waco swap places for me because the positioning is less terribad.

Now, hard statement time - I will skim Mountainous to look at the Rubicon (presumably mislynch) case, and I will try and find some Jarizok stuff to illustrate my point there because it's relevant to the read as a whole. I will not, however, be further engaging with Rubicon, because I'm pretty damn sure he's scum, and there's literally nothing positive that can come of it (lesson 2 from SVM! man, I sure am glad I had that not at all devastating teaching experience ). If someone wants to talk to be about him, I'm game, but yeah.

---------- Post automerged at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 PM ----------

Ehh... think I'm locking in town!Jarizok? Disagree with the way that he came to most of his reads and several of the reads themselves, but I think that the way he came to them are they way I'd expect him to approach things?

Not ideal, but it's a start.

---------- Post automerged at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

Out again for a bit. Busy busy and all of that.

 

I will just leave the fact that Tom is someone who is not afaird to distance himself from his partners in ways most people would not even consider lying on the ground here. Someone can pick it up if they want to.

The point being - looking at other peoples behavior towards tom = way to read an anti-alignment. Don't look too much at Tom, because that is one of the things he is somewhat proud of.

I am fairly certain that he is one of the top 3 people in that regard on DLP together with fonti and Eido.

Eido because Eido will bus hard with no regards for his teammates, that is the Eido way of life.

Fonti because she is insane. She will go above and beyond to clear herself with actions that "scum would never do" (taunt the dob to shoot them hard or get themselves shot by a dob partner to fuck with the worldbuilding and give witches insta last stand) or "scum would never do to a partner" (hyper bus me in star wars mafia EoD1, which I only barely survived by faking afk).

Tom is more similar to fonti, but less mechanical about it, I think.

I am not saying all those x can't be with tom because tom said y are cute and some might be spot on, but be very careful with those statements.

Continue with your teaparty.

---------- Post automerged at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------
Typhon :
Koalas case on you was solid from a players perspective that is not aware of your change of playstyle.
Not alignment indicatve (considering I basically tried the same in StardewValley).

I am just telling you to not build a case on the footing of that. If there are other reasons or you think something else about his push was scummy, go ahead. The push itself was neutral.

 

And... nevermind. The place I was headed has no power, so my day just opened right back up.

Agree that anything based on Tom spew is treading on dangerous ground.

On your point to me, my case on Koalas is built off of that, but not in the way that I think you're interpreting it? Like, I think it's kinda silly like I did in SVM, but that's not the point.

My point is that he parked his vote on me with my tone/style being his motivator early in the day, which was shrug, but he never really followed up. Or tried to dig into my posts to engage with the content to see if that was scummy. Or looked at anyone else at all, in case he was wrong about me.

It didn't feel like he cared about solving so much as he just wanted to put down a firm read and vote, ie. going through the motions.

And then he straight sheeped me onto Rubicon today, which feels sorta bad? Like, I'm more convinced about Rubicon than Koalas, so I'm fine to lynch Rubicon with Koalas as part of the wagon. If Rubicon is lynched and flips town, though, I'm going to be going hard on Koalas as likely as not.