I feel reasonably sure it's one of these.

Tom / Jan / Tammy
Tom / Koalas / Tammy
Tom / His Fluffiness / Koalas
Tom / Nachomamma8 / Tammy
Tom / His Fluffiness / Nachomamma8
Tom / Koalas / Nachomamma8

---------- Post automerged at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Who in particular and why?

"his fluffiness" is not an acceptable reply.

---------- Post automerged at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------

1) Go to Little Italy
2) Click on the number of replies for the game thread.
3) Click on the number of posts next to a person's name.

Unfortunately it only shows a snippet of each post and you have to click through to read the whole thing.

---------- Post automerged at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

What do you mean here? How does that make him town?

I agree with all this.

---------- Post automerged at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

I'm tempted to say that if Nacho and Tammy were both scum, he would be putting in more effort.

However, I want to see them both catch up before jumping to conclusions.

 

Jan, his fluffiness.

 

What do you like about Jan?

Using more than 25 words and one of them must be cattywampus.

 

I made a case on fonti around EoD1 with mostly mechanical questions. If you want to know more whenever you are caught up feel free to let me know.

To iso people I go here :

Little Italy Mainpage

click the number in the "replies" column that is in the same line as the thread.

in the next window you just click the postnumber that belongs to the person you want to iso.

Fair warning the posts are are cut down unless you install an additional script.

I made a post about that in the general mafia discussion thread, you can find it here :
Extended Search results

---------- Post automerged at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ----------
Rubicon - Check out the exntended results thing as well. Makes reading isos ~250 times faster and more fun.

---------- Post automerged at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------
Rubicon - Why don't you have a fluff/tammy team?

Any reason you left that one out?

 

My original reasoning was that fontisian doesn't allow HF to fixate on his partners to the exclusion of everything else. His only content D1 and D2 was about her and Tom.

 

I haven't liked Jarizok's opening so far; his attempts to read Miner and fluff (the two people he's sought out to read the most) so far consist of him mostly sheeping fonti's early read on Miner and voting fluff for Marketplace Owner in order to make him more active, neither of which seem like a genuine attempt to actually form reads. I also didn't really like his responses to Jan's early pressure on him from this; he places a fairly unreasonable amount of emphasis on how much information he's generated from his reading of Miner and Fluff, but doesn't actually have anything to show for it.

Typhon's early Rubicon suspicion is pretty much the same suspicion he's already reworded; in context, he takes Rubicon's argument that Vira is probably town for sticking her neck out and swaps it into a "too scummy to be scum" argument, which I don't at all think is something coming from scum (the way Typhon has been arguing his points and pressing for a solved game seems very town to me) but it does show that this push started to get out of hand fairly early.

 

Nachomamma8 Thoughts on Rubicon now that Cobalt has flipped town?

 

Cobalt's flip hasn't really changed my read of Rubicon. I thought that his posts that he made when he thought that he was dead looked fairly town and I've liked a majority of his posts today (Koalas said he's now super confident Rubicon's scum since he's looking into people like Jan but I think that's an angle he's much less likely to take when he's already very very close to death).

---------- Post automerged at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

I expected Jan to press his "Nacho spewed Rubicon-town" angle a little more today; while I haven't been around, Rubicon has and the thread temperature is very distinctly all Rubicon and no Nacho.

---------- Post automerged at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

And, for the record (I've seen it brought up a couple of times), Waco was not as excited about the neighborizer in QT as he was in thread.

---------- Post automerged at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

Jan's early posting looks pretty genuine in terms of actually trying to solve the game.

---------- Post automerged at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

The Miner thought process still seems weird here, but I'm okay with the rest of his posting.

If I'm not mistaken, Jarizok opened up the game trying to read Miner and Fluff, then decided that he wasn't reading Miner yet and instead was sheeping Fonti's townread on him (which I originally took as a townread, but actually means null read). Then he seems to go "good but not great" to "good but with a small niggle" to "great!" in a small period which is weird because it doesn't seem like something scum would actively attempt to fake but it also doesn't seem like a thought process that actually comes from town here.

 

If not Rubicon, then who do you think is scum, Nacho?

 

Thanks for the ISO information! My homesite has cut down iso's, so I'm used to that. Inconvenient, but.

Rubicon - I would quote but on my phine. That doesn't necessarily make him town if you're asking about me liking his posts. I just in general like his posts. I like the way he expresses his thought process, which makes me feel good about him in general. Him making me chuckle on occasion is my weakness; I like pointing out when someone is hitting a known weakness I have. It helps to keep me grounded and check myself.

As far as the focusing on the meme thing, it just feels like an odd thing to get hung up on as scum. It just felt.p very what does this mean for newcomb's alignment.

I'm sure I'll get there but what don't you like about Jan?

Nacho - what do you think about koalas?

---------- Post automerged at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------

Oh remembered this on the way to the store - not a fan of the cobalt is suspect for the overdefensive reaction to the question about his reads. I know hindsight bias and all that but it was hardly overdefensive, and overdefensiveness is more often than not a personality tell anyway.

 

Jarizok was a possibility I was playing with but I liked his early attempts to sort you (there was a point where he posted a big wall on you and then ended up backing off because so many people seemed to be townreading you, Jan told him not to take things at face value quite yet, then he made another wall on you and ended up on null, seemed very unlikely to be the angle scum take on that).

It's not Jan or Typhon. Jarizok is a town lean as of this second. Tammy is *probably* unlikely due to fairly sketchy reasons I'm pretty happy to a discard once I get a real opportunity to interact with her.
It could reasonably be anyone else - Koalas so far seems the likeliest since I've actively disliked a few of his posts (will get into it later), your opening is okay but I don't think the "doctor is useless" statement was worth the townreads it got and I don't yet understand why Fluff looks town to anyone quite yet.

---------- Post automerged at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

I really like how self-conscious Typhon is about the Game He Was Wrong.

---------- Post automerged at 06:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------

I think the point Typhon brings up in this post is a good one, namely that Jarizok's play so far has been an impressive amount of turning wheels without a good chunk of progress. It doesn't chip the townread much right now, but it's definitely something I'll be looking for in the future.

---------- Post automerged at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

Vira was the one who suspected Typhon for being overly wordy, I agree that it stands out. In particular, her Typhon suspicion mostly revolves around Typhon wanting to neighborize Newcomb or Fonti and her being afraid that he's doing it as a Pocket Monsters strategy which is a weird reason to suspect someone in the first place but is also apparently what stood out the most to her in the first 13 pages which is weird in and of itself.

---------- Post automerged at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 PM ----------

Jan's point about Jarizok setting an excuse up to lurk and then not lurking isn't something I understand - is he generally uncomfortable as scum?

I also don't care so much about postcount as I do about engagement - Jarizok might have had a high postcount t Day 1, but he didn't have anywhere near the level of engagement that you did.

---------- Post automerged at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

I don't think that Jarizok-Fluff is a team based on this posting here, too blatant for partners.

---------- Post automerged at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

I liked this vote, just seemed like a genuine thought progression that completely ignored thread temperature.

 

Typhoon - how much experience does vira have with font such that a scum vita wouldn't question a town font? (I'm kinda skeptical of this type of reasoning to town read people in a vacuum because people have said this about me in the past, and then they dismiss scum who are attacking or tunneling me, so is there more ersonality behind this or just a general thoight?)

 

Hey Nacho. You're doing that thing where you're putting words in my mouth again. Stahp.

 

Koalas, it's completely possible I was mixing up you/Fluff although I can't remember the first time I put words in your mouth.

 

Okay so for some reason I have been thinking that this game is "typical HF" when he is less engaged with a game. Apparently that is a solid "hell no" - he has actually never played like this in a single DLP game.

Several things appear to be consistent in all his DLP town games. I went through all of them this morning. (I'm still interested in off-site meta if someone knows of a game that is closer to this one.)

This "typical HF" idea probably got stuck in my head back when Newcomb asked, "Did I time travel back to 2015? Is this really how you're playing this game?" With the implication that this is standard HF from a past era. Research indicates that's totally wrong.

There is this total lack of concern about who gets lynched each day - that's really unlike him. On D1, he hopped on the final lynch wagon after Newcomb had already committed to burying Tom. His reason was that he wanted to "make mafia great again!"

On D2, he openly flip-flopped between me (one of his townreads) and Cobalt (the wagon which was pushed by his top scumread). He was apparently sheeping Jan, Miner and Typhon. This is not someone who gives a shit.

Two, he has strong and original reads in every one of his town games - usually starting early D1 and continuing to evolve throughout the game. These tend to go hand in hand with confident pushes on people. Here is an example post I'd describe as definitivly town-HF. Especially the part at the end:

There are usually one or two qualitatively town posts like this in all his town games, sometimes more.

HF's play in this game can be summarized as: repeating questions that have already been asked in order to avoid being prodded, and repeatedly sheeping the consensus wagon.

This was fonti's defense of HF:

His posts about Tom came after Newcomb's Tom case (and after Newcomb committed to "burying him so deep he'll need an industrial laser drill to smell the surface"):

Ultimately, I don't find this terribly convincing as a reason to clear him. Like Koalas said D2, the scum team was probably aware that Tom was going down once Newcomb made his intentions clear. For context, HF is vote #4 on the Tom wagon.

There is also Jarizok's argument that HF latching onto the flaws in fontisian's setup logic is a very town-HF thought process. This is what I was going to double-check, and I took it pretty seriously for a while. It's true that HF tends to pick out things like that to form his reads, and I can remember other examples from past games. However, in reality there is always more to his reasoning, always more investigation and probing and explanation. As a reason to townread him on D3, this is too weak for me.

What about his scum games? I can only find one on DLP, and I hesitate to draw too many conclusions from a sample size of 1. While his SVM play was very active, there are one or two similarities with this game. Unlike his town play, in SVM a significant fraction of his posts were one-liner questions asking people to explain something they said, give their read on a player, etc:

Spoiler

Repeat ad nauseum. This pattern is somewhat present in this game as well in his recent prod dodge questions. A more fundamental quality of his SVM play is lack of depth to his analysis, and that is definitely present here.

All in all, I started this meta research expecting to end up clearing HF and ruling out all the teams that include him. That is definitely not happening.

---------- Post automerged at 05:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

I think you are confusing him with Fluff.

Koalas has never clearly articulated a case on me outside of agreeing with Typhon and, I guess, generally thinking my reads are dumb.

 

Jan,

Your big case focusing on me reducing Typhon's case to the information point is not an accurate one at all. I highly suggest you read back a bit further where I address the substance of Typhon's case against Rubicon; there's an argument to be had that I addressed the individual pieces instead of the big picture argument but the reasons for that should be fairly obvious when I haven't read the game.

You're right that I didn't have a particularly strong townread on Rubicon while I was defending him, and while I'm leaning on him being town, I don't have a read that I'd be willing to die for and am currently trying to strike the balance between waiting until that read is confident before pushing it again and making sure that my efforts yesterday don't entirely go to waste. I do feel pretty good about his near death experience from yesterday.

Where I was coming from in the thread held Typhon pushing a case and most people following it like the gospel; I don't think it's a strong case and from what I read of Cobalt, his posts seemed terrible while Rubicon's not so much.

 

Lynch Vote Count 3.3

Rubicon (5): Vira, Typhon, Jarizok, Koalas, His Fluffines

Not Voting (4): Tammy, Jan, Koalas, Nachomamma8

Player Currently to be Lynched at Deadline: Rubicon

Day ends in ~24 Hours of this post when that countdown link expires.

 

Despite my concerns, I don't really want to lynch Jan, Tammy or Nachomamma8 in the next 24 hours.

Jan because I'm the only one who finds him at all suspicious, he only fits with Tammy, and I'm concerned that he may be outside his scum range here.

Tammy and Nacho because they're still catching up.

HF or Koalas sounds pretty good though.

---------- Post automerged at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Also, every time I reread Waco's ISO, I come away thinking he was fairly town.

 

Despite my concerns -- oh wait, I have none. Bye Rubicon. Please roll town next time.

 

I appreciate the sentiment.

---------- Post automerged at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

I don't like to complain, but it really feels like I'm pouring my heart and soul into this game and everyone is just like "whatever dude, go fucking die."

HF is probably mafia, so I won't hold it against him.

Another reason not to lynch those three people, though.