So is your response.

Me not pushing on hard scumreads means nothing.

You should actually know that.

Look at my d1 last game. I did not have a strong scumread and was mostly switching between things.
I made a case on fonti, which was pure mechanics.

The fact that you are picking 1 scumgame of mine and don't even care about similarities this has to basically all my games is "problematic" and "making a fabricated narrative".

Your argument of me switching my style is a sweet smokescreen, but a mindset does not change over night and as long as I am not certain about a read I will not ask people to rally behind it.


I want to say your scum for this approach, which is basically asking other people like Newcomb to look at me when you should know by now, that no one here has a good read on me.
At least not a solid one. Not if I don't play an obvious game.

Half of the game kept me in the PoE last game before I died in the night, when I was obvious town. (They considered a CfD on me the day Vira got lynched).

You are not putting forth a good case, you throw shade and hope other people do the dirty work for you.



Sorry kid .. but like .. the way you are pushing on me without actually pushing feels completely fake to me.
Make a real attempt or don't but this is basically just pissing me off.

 

Also loved this conversation.

 

Pointless bullshit.

My "lack of content" is because I have more trouble reading a game that is mainly spammed by people with gigantic wallpost.

I feel suffocated and don't have the room to breath I had in the last games.

Add to that that I don't feel like putting in as much effort as I did before, because I just don't have the energy right now.


And yes I discredit you the same way you are throwing shade in my direction.
I am tilted enough by your behavior here.

Would you say that your push and the way you did it is not something town!me could see as opportunistic?

Not so much the push itself, but the way you did it. Discrediting me without pushing it hard enough to commit yourself.
That is exactly what I think scum is more likely to do.


So yeah I am calling you out on it.

 

There's a difference between you not pushing on hard scum reads and you maintaining your vote on someone you town read, a rather significant difference, the first is somewhat understandable, the second doesn't make much sense given your own spiel about improving in the early game and your attitude in the post game. And the "Mindset doesn't improve overnight" isn't an excuse I'm buying at all, moving your vote from someone you no longer think is mafia is a pretty basic part of the game and you're a very competent player and know as mafia.

The "Asking people to read you is silly since no one can" is pretty unrealistic, sure there's some players that are harder to get a raed on but no one is really entirely unreadable and that's a question that almost always is worthwhile asking about someone you think is plausibly scum. And you're right, I wasn't "Putting forth a case", I wasn't even voting you or intending to lynch you anytime soon then, I was moreso airing my thoughts/reads/concerns - this is something that should be pretty fucking clear when reading my posts.

---------- Post automerged at 03:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 AM ----------

I'll maybe buy that this is a harder game to slug through and I'ev attempted to move away from "linking post walls" and just type my thought process clearer so it's easier for others but I don't buy that sapping you from playing entirely.

I'll even maybe buy that if you're town here you'd consider the push "Opportunistic" but that's not what you called it nor how you handled it, you attempted to create a pretty ridiuclously fake narrative and ignore the actual progression of my read on you and reasoning which I explained pretty clearly.

 

Miner you're confirmed town via me being the oracle btw. Pretty please actually play the game when you get a chance.

 

My vote on you at the time was dead, yes.

But I did not have a good place to vote at the time.
I rarely unvote without moving my vote to another target.

I was sleeping tonight, which I do sometimes. It is a european thing.

You might be in some sort of EoD panic because your day is ending soon, but mine has just begun. Timezones are precious, I might explain them to you at one point, maybe.
Not as good as magnets, but still fun!


I am not saying that I am unreadable, but I am a harder read than most and fooled most people in this game at one point or another.
You could ask Fonti, but is she is town then she is lacking the balls to read me and if she is scum then she doesn't want to commit to anything for obvious reasons.
That would be the person who has the highest chance of reading me correctly.

---------- Post automerged at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

So Regfan .. talking perspective ..

Explain to my why I as scum would try to push on you here when not a single person in this game would kill you just for your wordcount alone.

There is no upside to this play for me as scum. I won't get anything done doing it.

It makes all the reasons for town!me to think like this.

Well technically, me saying this means I could do it as scum and this is all wifom. But if that was the case then why would I do that?


Moving to another topic.

You want to kill owner at the moment, right?

Look at the way owner talked to me about you and stuff early on. Do you think those interactions are likely w/w?
I can tell you that if I was with owner then they would be somewhat less awkward and more fluent. Plus once I started them there would be somewhat more of them and not a sudden break for the most part.

I would not link a picture that is similar to a gif i posted in my last wolfgame d1. That waxon/wax off picture was pure mindgames, because I know she normally reads my posts, because the fun read she gave about me is something she does quite a lot.
We talk about it on skype when I am in a videomafia game and she is watching.

I was somewhat hoping for someone like Fonti to catch it as well ... but either both of them didn't make the connection or they are wolves and didn't care about it.

On another note .. do you think I would jump into the fray like this if owner was town and I was scum?
She had two townreads for most of the game. One of them being me.
If she gets misslynched and the info gets out tomorrow, guess who looks good for it?! Me.


There is exactly zero reason for scum!me to make this play unless you think I am exactly with owner.

 

I fail to believe you had absolutely no scum reads to move your vote to. If you want to say you weren't confident in anyone that's fine, but to I don't buy having no scum reads inside this game especially since there's 5 scum.

Well aware how timezones work and the European ones, I've spent a year over there after all but we are nearing the last ~18 hours of the day phase and I've not seen anything from you outside of a mechanics post that I've really liked, this combined with the other reasons I've brought up should be a pretty understandable reason why I think you're potentially scum so your reaction towards the whole thing didn't and doesn't feel like you attempting to look at things from my PoV. And I did ask Fonti for her read on you.

---------- Post automerged at 03:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 AM ----------

I'll respond to the rest of your automerge when I get home, I'm not phone posting anymore than I've done so in the above post.

---------- Post automerged at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------

And Delphine wouldn't mind you weighing in here.

 

So, since catch up posts are apparently not cool anymore, just a couple of things:

Now that your assured Miner D1 lynch is off the table, can we get a full wall fontisian?

Yes.

Lay it on me with the SVM hate guys! I can take it.

If Cobalt is scum, so is Fluff. Cobalt makes one post and Fluff is like: wow, such reads, much town.

Newcomb Your 1010 is outdated by now, but I still think there's 1 or 2 scum on Miner. He was an easy target before the Oracle clear.

The Owner posts don't do much for me. I'm like 80% sure she's scum.

 

You've got two large motivations to make this play as mafia;

1) It allows you to de-credit me where which in turn allows my scum read on you to be viewed as weaker from others and people less inclined to listen to me, this is a pretty obvious and large advantage as scum.

2) There's a few other people inside the game notably Atum and more recently from the looks of things Fonti that either have a scum read on me or are sceptical of me and while that's probably not enough to actually get me mslynched it does allow you to an area to 'focus attention' while not creating any new enemies and potentially buddy up to them if they're both town which I lean towards being the case.

Correct I want to lynch Owner, and nothing you've posted here does much for me, I don't think your interactions together necessarily rule you out as potential partners nor do I particularly care, it's not how I scum hunt -- I don't really let associations have a huge impact on my reads, I went through this with you already in the game re; Fonti/Miner. I do my deep interaction analysis when there's flips or there's smaller scum teams alive and I can attempt to narrow down the worlds, D1 with 5 scum alive isn't that situation.

I'm going to make dinner, I'll probably come back and summarise why I think Owner is very probably mafia where when I get back but probably going to have an early night so I can maybe get up before work again to get to this game.

 

Votecount at the time or Delphine claim:

Miner [6]: Fontisian, Regfan, Cobalt, Rubicon, Vira, Vaimes
Rubicon [3]: Fable, Delphine, His Fluffiness
Fable [2]: Jarizok, Waco,
Jarizok [2]: Owner, KaiDASH
Regfan [2]: Jan, Atum
Owner [1]: Newcomb,
Fontisian [1]: Miner

Abstaining [1]: Koalas

---------- Post automerged at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

I want to say Vaimes flipflopping from Miner to Owner and back right before the claim actually looks good for him.

 

Vote: owner

Answer the damn questions.

 

Obviously, Fonti doesn't come off well hardpushing town all day.

Reg, Cobalt, Rubicon, Vira is where the interesting stuff is.

---------- Post automerged at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Also, ftr, Owner had her vote on Miner until 753.

---------- Post automerged at 12:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

She voted for him in 396, after he said America wasn't a country, so that's a cheap vote if I ever saw one.

---------- Post automerged at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 ----------

Also, Fable looks pretty good for defending Miner even through enough pressure that he was supposedly ready to claim. I mean, it's not like throwing Miner under the bus at that point would have saved him, but his reluctance to go with thread flow and vote Miner warrants another look at him. Sad times.

 

Yeah.... I feel bad sorry.

Will, uh, definitely try to throw some reads out before deadline.

And yes, I'd seriously consider looking at at least one of fonti/rubicon/reg as the scum on my wagon because from my pov their reasoning was the weirdest and least likely to come from town.

---------- Post automerged at 07:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 AM ----------

Oh I think vira's probably town here, the nature of her vote definitely seemed more as a "ok I tried talking to you and what you said came off as scummy so die." than anything witchy.

---------- Post automerged at 07:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 AM ----------

Another thing id like to look at are the people that didn't say anything about me during the time when my wagon was the leading wagon.

Specifically looking at Jan, Atum, and Koalas. I think there's /probably/ one scum there, trying to distance from everyone else by simply "focusing" elsewhere.

 

No i'm sorry I was told by fonti that she never ever reads miner wrong there must be some mistake here.

 

As much as I would love to lynch fonti for that (and I do think that this game she hasn't exactly been the epitome of town!fonti), I dislike Reg even more.

 

Main reasons I think Owner is mafia are effectively;

1) Her ratio of fluff / non-game related content to actual reads and thoughts are very off of what it should be; while I acknowledge that she's a player that's probably more fluff than most normally and while she did plenty of fluff posting inside Mountanious Mafia as town there was some thought process, reads and questions that feel like they were going somewhere there. I can't say the same for here at all.

2) Her interaction with me in regards to my scum read on her felt like her just "Picking something to focus on to avoid having to scumhunt" and specifically looks worse given Miners town here meaning her wanting to create as few enemies as possible as scum is a serious possibility. The interaction didn't come across as her attempting to get a better read on me whatsoever and plenty of the questions and statements she made during it didn't come across as genuine scumhunting.

3) Her reads when I pressured her to post some town/scum reads here felt massively lacklustre, the reasoning behind town reading Rubicon for instance was something that made effectively no sense and the scum reads on Jari/Myself were incredibly shallow, attempting to use "Cobalt - Null" as another read to reach the number I asked of her was also something that I think has a lot of scum motivation behind it.

May come into this in more detail when I wake up but pretty exhausted at the moment.

 

What are you on about? I said I'd come back to you when you'd done something. I dropped 930, went to bed and woke up to an Oracle claim on you. The hell do you expect?

Delphine there were some hanging points from 868 you never addressed.

 

Reasons?

Just from a pure effort perspective I like him more than both rubicon and fonti.

 

Yeah, I'm heading to bed, should be able to get on before work.

Really think if we kill through Owner, Fluff and Jan (Particularly after our recent exchange) we have a very good chance of hitting 3 wolves, did some skim reading of peoples reads / avoidance of Miner and Fluff does come out of it quite badly, he avoids Miner almost entirely and focuses on Rubicon in a way that feels like he's realistically staying out of the way for the Miner mslynch and giving himself an avenue to continue pushing for tomorrow.

Think if Owner is indeed mafia I can finally rule out Vaimes as town since his move and vote there over Miner looks pretty good if it's a case of Owner!Mafia & Miner!Town but still waiting on his and Atums catch ups here.

---------- Post automerged at 06:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 AM ----------

Really would like Fonti to get around to answering my last question to her.

And Newcomb, if you pop around wouldn't mind your thoughts on Jans interaction with me.

 

Uhm, something/anything regarding the fact that I was the leading wagon and you're trying to lynch owner?

Fable

There's something icky about the way that he joined my wagon, I do believe his reasoning centered around "tone and mannerisms" as well as meta stuff. At a point where I had pretty much done nothing except for the whole react to Newcomb thing.

And like, later on it seems as though he always "disagrees" with what I do, saying that "if this was town!miner he would've done X instead of doing Y." Which is just strange because I don't believe that I have a particular "way" of doing anything as town versus scum.

And also owner cased him... which if you're gonna believe that owner's scum here, should definitely mean something.

---------- Post automerged at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 AM ----------

Oh yeah, forgot about fluff.

Should definitely look into that one.

---------- Post automerged at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------

I'm not sure about Rubicon TBH.

The way he soft-defended me seems strange to come from scum, he could've avoided the entire exchange and been fine. But then, the way that he pushed was also weird to come from town as well. Like, I'd assume Rubicon would be a lot more convinced as town by that point if he was going to say I was scum, and he just kinda... dances around it by saying stuff like "I can see where all these people pushing miner are coming from but at the same time I'm not going to vote him". I mean later on he finally puts a vote on me, but at that point it's more witchy than not.