I love how the bashers show their hypocrisy when they go around claiming Neville is more loyal to Ron by quoting that clichéd example of Ron not believing Harry in GoF. No offense to Neville and I think he is a great guy, but the book made it clear he did not believe Harry either nor did he hang around with Harry when the school turned against him. How about that time when the school believed Harry was the Heir of Slytherin and Neville was nowhere to be found offering support? Could it be that they both had times when they faltered which doesn’t make them horrible people?

Neville being a better friend - Ah but Harry does not think Neville is an interesting person to socialise with. For most of the first five books Harry was avoiding hanging around Neville as a friend because how clumsy he was. Even in HBP after Neville proved his worth at the Department of Mysteries Harry still didn’t care about Neville very much after the train scene at the start of the year.

I think they are just people who want to find anywhere to rant about Ron in their new account. They probably don’t bother with anything else.

He was 13 at that time as his birthday is in March and that particular incident happened in May.

Yes, and this is why I am pretty annoyed when fanfic authors go around claiming Hermione’s Boggart was actually something else like her friends dying which goes against what canon tells us.

I think it’s a great idea as it will at least save you making lots of posts with essentially the same contents, but I am sure the haters will never bother to read your arguments and instead immense themselves in their delusions, sigh.

Darren just helped to support what I said here:
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=980449


About Harry bullying people – the objective fact is that Harry was hexing people for the fun of it (he even described it as entertaining and his actions resulting in general applause) and no other reasons in HBP using hexes he learned from his potions textbook. Remember this is the same guy who was horrified that his father was bullying Snape, one of his least favourite people in the world, just a few months earlier. Now he was happy doing the same thing? Really?


I think what AmiegoCorleone is trying to say is that Harry’s love interests, i.e. Cho and Ginny, are all pretty, popular and athletic girls (an objectively correct assessment). It does not mean he is attracted to all pretty, popular and athletic girls. In his view, it is a character flaw. I can probably also add how his ability to emotionally comfort his girlfriends is almost non-existent because of his upbringing which explains why he cannot deal with crying girls.


Anyway, this is getting off-topic so I will stop here.

 

While a lot of people will want to be righteous and talk about how Ron is just the everyday person who couldn't hack it anymore for one brief moment when he runs out on Harry and Hermione in TDH, Horcrux influence, jealousy, injury, etc.

Ron is the representation of betrayal and the tendency in human nature to take the easy path in Harry's generation, in James'/Lily's generation that was Peter, and to a lesser extent Severus. JKR's writing is filled to the brim with cyclical themes and representational characters, Ron is no exception. That's not to say he ONLY represents those things. But in at least the contexts of GOF and TDH he represents the worst parts of human nature, and while he's not the only one to do so (the entire school bar Hermione turns against Harry in GOF and arguably the country turns against him in TDH.), he is the one closest to the issue who does. To then compare him to Hermione, Harry's other close friend, or Ginny, his canon love interest, it paints him in a particularly bad light.

Hermione never truly abandons Harry, even in HBP when she's rowing with him about the potions book, Draco, etc, she's still his friend. She and he still have a close relationship as evidenced multiple times by the way they comfort each other in a way harry never does with any male in the series, or even Ginny, who is mostly auxiliary to the plot.

Ginny, while as I mentioned is a tertiary character, is also perhaps the most loyal of any of Harry's contemporaries, even more-so than Hermione. There's never a significant argument between the two in canon (I've not read the cursed child so I can't speak for post the original saga) she doesn't once question him, or doubt him in any way, even when he 'breaks up' with her at the end of HBP she already knew it was coming, braced herself for it, and even while he was breaking her heart she supported him. The only time she ever even shies away from him (barring weird moments where a teenage girl would flinch around her crush for other reasons) is in COS when she's been unwittingly consorting with his mortal enemy.

I don't particularly like the Harry/Ginny ship for reasons best left out of this thread, but it can never be argued that she wasn't good for him in canon. I've seen a few people argue that she has no personality, but it could be argued that her personality is simply less bombastic or assertive than the rest of the characters in the series. her personality can be described as infinitely loyal, supportive and fierce, willing to do whatever she can to stick up for those she cares for, and to stick up for herself. She neatly avoids being a damsel in distress by removing herself from dangerous situations, or scrapping her way out of them with a desperate ferocity often seen in passionate women.

Now contrast all this with Ron, who for all intents and purposes is a relatively funny but lazy and flaky friend. He's not particularly magically gifted, and as far as I know there's only a handful of instances, even in the books, of him actually achieving anything with a wand or his mind. And those moments are noted as being particularly rare.

It sucks to think it, but Ron is a below average human being. He scrapes through school mostly on Hermione's brutal study routines, has no particular talents bar perhaps chess and Quidditch, and twice abandons the person he claims to be his closest friend at times of dire need.

How does this relate to what I was saying earlier? Harry is a painfully obvious Christ figure (as many protagonists end up being in modern fiction), Hermione is representative of the best parts of human nature, platonic and unconditional love, compassion, academia, loyalty. Though she's made human by her stubbornness, her jealousy, her tendency to panic and overwork. Ginny is representative of safety, homecoming, passion and other romantic ideals. I could go on. Ron is the representation of laziness, mediocrity, betrayal (though not of the same caliber as other betrayers in the work), and in many cases failure to succeed. He's given the short end of the stick in JKR's writing and I'd argue that he was meant that way. He's an outlet for the negative instincts of the reader; 'Things are going badly? Channel your grump at the person who walked out on Harry and Hermione in the wilderness, get rid of the grump and focus on my narrative'. It's an old writer's trick to include a character in the primary group of the story that you can't help but get angry at every now and then. It refocuses the reader on the protagonist and their struggle.

Why do we bash Ron? Because JKR put him there with the express purpose of making him an emotional punching bag.

There's nothing stopping you from redeeming him in your work as writers, but the canon Ron has been built from the ground up to be torn down again and again.

He's given several redemption arcs, because at the end of the day the Harry Potter story is about success and victory. A more realistic tale involving Ron's character as is would have seen a permanent break of the 'golden trio' after Ron abandons them on the run. The weird thing is though that it wouldn't have made as compelling a story, because even though Ron has been designed for us to hate, even in small portions, he's also there for us to love. Because in the end he does get the girl, he overcomes his shortcomings and he becomes a better person.

We just need to remember that, rather than focus on the person he was for the majority of the story, in the end Ron becomes a sympathetic character, but it wasn't always that way.

 

Interesting that I saw an identical comment on reddit.

Which is true. The funny thing is those people who hate on Ron because of that one brief moment had no problems accepting horrid behaviour from their favourite characters.

[FONT=&quot]No I disagree because staying mad at your friend for a few weeks in GoF or leaving for a few minutes during the camping trip because of one’s anger and turning to the dark side are two completely different type of actions. Also hasn’t Harry done lots of regrettable things because of his anger as well? Why isn’t Harry seen as the bully when he hexed people for fun or someone who could turn evil (the unforgivable curses anyone?)?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I think it said that all students except Hermione including Ginny believed he entered the Tournament himself in GoF. Well you can say Ginny didn’t turn against him in GoF but we cannot know for sure as the story did not focus on her.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Well by this logic Harry ‘abandoned’ Hermione as well when she handed his broomstick over to McGonagall in PoA. Why should he get a free pass just because he’s the protagonist? Hermione did not behave very well when she repeatedly ignored Ron’s request to keep Crookshanks away from Scabbers and did not even feel sorry when all evidence showed Scabbers was killed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What about that time in PoA when after handing Harry’s broomstick to McGonagall without even consulting him and then trying all the time to justify her. What are your thoughts on that?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You are right about Ginny here.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Well he was able to perform the Leg Locker curse in PS and the slug vomiting charm in CoS and both of these spells are supposed to be rather advanced for his age at that time. He was able to stun a Death Eater while flying in mid-air so they are really as rare as you think. As for achieving something with his mind, [/FONT]it was also his idea to use the Felix Felicis to secure the memory from Slughorn and him who found a way to break into the chamber of secrets to destroy the Hufflepuff cup and him who understood intuitively that speaking the name Voldemort seemed like a bad idea.
People keep bashing Ron for not providing enough brilliant solutions like Hermione but that is missing the point because that is not his role in the books. His job is to support Harry emotionally just like Hermione is to support logically. Not sure why this is so difficult to see.

[FONT=&quot]Why do you include the word perhaps? He does have those talents full stop. Also you kind of forgot many people in the real world only does have one or two areas that are really good at.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Guess Harry is a below average human being then as they got pretty much identical marks both with the help of Hermione’s study kit (who was also helping Neville a lot btw). Ron passed his first-year exams with good marks (it's even stated like this in the book), he got the same marks as Harry in the OWLs except DADA where Harry had lots more practical experience. Do you consider a student who mostly got Es as a below average student? Sure he is not as book smart and did not study as hard as Hermione did but then who did? Also I am not exactly sure what the problem is with getting help from a more intelligent friend?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You know Ron did not actually know that Harry needed him in GoF because all he saw was Harry getting the glory of becoming a Triwizard Tournament champion and he swallowed his pride and apologised as soon as he learned the danger of being a champion. He isn’t a god that knows everything even though you’re trying to judge him as such. I also don’t know why you would use the word abandon to describe one moment of weakness (which Harry goaded him into doing btw) but anyway.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I would argue then that Harry is also a representation of laziness and mediocrity for reasons listed above. He could also be a representation of emotional deprivation because his ability to give emotional comforts to others is practically non-existent.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Interesting points about JKR using Ron as an emotional punching bag and the themes of HP series, you definitely got me thinking there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As has already been said, if Harry wasn’t so stubborn and just stayed in the same place a bit longer, they would have reunited a lot sooner because it is not really betrayal but more a moment of irrational anger.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I fully agree.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I would say Ron was a sympathetic character for the majority of the books because like Hermione said he didn’t really have it very easy being Harry Potter’s best friend. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Also do you realise it is heroic to stick with Harry when he DIDN'T HAVE TO? On the contrary, befriending the Chosen One has a great tendency to put Ron's family in danger which is part of the reason that caused that fight between them you know.[/FONT]

 

Bravo for saying all this stuff. I'm tired of being the guy who always defends Ron, and it's nice to see someone else to argue in favor of Ron for a change.

 

Thanks for your kind words Rhaeger. Like you said before, it is good to see and hear support from other Ron defenders.


I found it’s really not difficult making the defense posts because haters are always using the same clichéd arguments again and again and eventually you just know exactly what to say in response to it.


At least the guy wasn’t simply bashing and hating Ron using random dreams and delusions like some of the other posters and tried to present a balanced point of view so that is an improvement.

 

He is to Hermione. He goes out of his way to hurt Hermione feelings/insult her. Ron is extremely insecure, and isn't satisfied until he's belittled her enough to assuage his wounded ego. These fights always end with her in tears, and he is unmoved by them. The most egregious instances of Ron's behavior, though, are in 6th and 7th year. When Ginny tells Ron that Hermione snogged Viktor, he goes out of his way to punish Hermione for this horrific infraction. He takes up with Lavender, and deliberately makes out with her in front of Hermione whenever the opportunity arises. He knows that he's hurting her and he just doesn't care. How they got together after that I have no idea. Then, of course, there's his constant and insufferable whining on the horcrux hunt. He selfishly hoards their food, then blows up at both Harry and Hermione before abandoning them. He is deliberately mean to both of them while wearing the horcrux, but here's the important point: the horcrux didn't alter his personality. It just 'sapped his self-control,' as the Lexicon puts it. I don't want to imply that he's some sort of monster. He does have his good qualities, and JKR always tries to redeem him. I was just pointing out how nasty he can be in his fights with Hermione.

 

Sigh I thought this thread is closed already. I guess I was wrong.

Examples please. I am guessing you don’t have any other than the ones listed below. You know Ron always admired Hermione for her intelligence so this little Ron belittles Hermione constantly is nothing more than a lie from fanfiction.

But wait, wasn’t Hermione just as nasty? Maybe it’s because of unresolved sexual tension. When did Hermione end up in tears again please and he was unmoved? I remember one time in PoA during the cat-rat fight when he had a right to be angry. Are you sure you aren’t getting this idea from fanfiction?

OK I will acknowledge his behaviour was very bad here there I wouldn’t defend it. Now show me where did Ron deliberately snog Lavender in front of Hermione when the book made it very explicit that it was Lavender snogging Ron rather than the other way around.

He does know and he felt GUILTY about it you know. Just because you have no idea doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense to other people. It says more about you than the books or JKR.

:facepalmCould you give evidence that he did that? Otherwise you are just making things up. He blew up at Harry because of the Horcrux you know which does terrible things to your mind not to mention he was following a clueless leader who pretends nothing is wrong and he has to worry about his family among other things.
By the way Hermione was whining about the exams which in the context of the wider war is really trivial about Harry was always whining in OotP and that seems OK for you. Nice to see your double standard.

Wow, now you are saying he's a horrible person in general (it didn't alter his personality?!). Well considering how nice he was at the beginning of DH to his friends and was risking his life for them as an example, this is just as nonsensical as it sounds. I also seem to remember Harry literally goaded his best friend to go home so was Harry really nasty there. You reckon sapping self control doesn’t mean anything or something else?

But this exactly what you are doing in this entire post even though you might not see it that way. You kept going on about what a horrible person using facts that are speculations and exaggerations at best.

[FONT=&quot]Yeah so can Hermione to Ron and so can Harry to both his friends and you didn’t bother mentioning that. At least you acknowledged that Ron have redeemable features and good qualities I guess.
[/FONT]

 

You know, I have a theory that a significant number of people out there haven't actually read the Books, so much as a veritable Alt-Harry Potter. One that more or less served the basis for every HP Fanon Cliche out there, from that Head Boy/Girl Room, to Daphne being a total Ice Queen, to Ron Weasley turning out to be the worst friend and person in human history.

It'd certainly explain why people keep describing an HP radically different from the one I knew and loved as a kid.

 

Lol now that you said it I am pretty sure you theory is true at least for some of the haters. I have heard of studies that concluded it is rather easy to modify people's memory of events that happened in the past. Therefore I am guessing it is not hard for people's memory of canon to be overrode by fanfiction (not even the movies are that bad really) where in your words, "Ron Weasley turning out to be the worst friend and person in human history".

Vlad's post earlier sums up everything pretty nicely I think:
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=980513#post980513

 

I dunno who this Veld fellow is, but he sounds woke af about the emotional stimuli in the Harry Potter books and, to be perfectly honest with you, probably has a YUGE pen0r. trufax

 

This is a thing?

Ron's heart is in the right place. He's just a teenager- and teenagers do stupid shit sometimes. Get over it. Harry ain't perfect, Ron ain't perfect, and Hermione definitely ain't perfect.

I mean, let's see you lug a definitely-not-properly-contained soul fragment of the Big Bad around for a bit.

The worst thing you can really say about him, as Vlad said, is that his taste in sports teams is shit.

 

To Ron lovers. Would Ron be friends with Harry if he had a relationship with Hermione ? Would Ron be friends with Harry in GOF if Harry got together with Fleur? Or what if Harry was sorted into Slytherin would he be friends with Harry? If your answer is no then you know why he is an asshole. There is not a lot of difference between Ron and Draco. Ron is just a gryffindor version of him just as biased and prejudiced against Slytherin? Another instance to show he is an asshole is how he expects Harry to treat Ginny well yet he himself doesn't treat Lavender with respect just using her for his needs? Anyone think Ron slipped Lavender a love potion? Why else would a super hottie get with Ron of all people? Also that 12 safe ways book Ron uses looks like a date rape book.

 

Since when is "not being friends" == "being an asshole"? You've got some weird standards, mate.

Except, y'know, Ron is brave, loyal, someone's brother, ginger, a blood traitor, and poor. These are all things Malfoy is not. There's quite a bit of meaningful difference.

Shit, son, I don't know, because Ron's actually a more than decent bloke, Keeper of the house Quidditch team, and presumably doesn't look all that horrid?

 

I'm not sure where to start with that one.

I'm impressed though. You've gone from, "Ron would hold it against Harry if he had a girlfriend", to "Ron is a date rapist" in about three sentences flat.

 

First question is stupid; I'm not sure what you want the answer to be.
Second question is stupid as it's a hypothetical that we have no means of answering.
Slytherin Harry. Yes, Ron is biased and prejudiced as an 11-year old. Hello and welcome to how people are. Doesn't make him a dick, doesn't mean he will still be the same at twenty. I don't remember how I was at 11, but surely not the sophisticated, brilliant being I am now.
We have very little knowledge of how he is with Lavender. He criticises her a little at the end of their relationship, but which of your friends has never whined a little about their boyfriend/girlfriend? A friend's first function is to be a receptacle for such complaints. Maybe you refer to their "indecent" behaviour, in which case I hate to inform you that Lavender is as much a participant in it as Ron is. Harry doesn't really understand why Ron is with Lavender because he himself is not very fond of her, but the narratorial voice never gives the impression that Ron is simply "using" her. He is enjoying an adolescent fling as most of us (perhaps not you?) have done.
I won't address the love potion thing, it's too stupid.
You project your own superficiality onto Lavender: she may have plenty of reasons to get with him that we don't know about. For one thing, he's a rather funny person to be around. Being a "hottie" as you eloquently put it doesn't mean she only accepts to go out with the male equivalent of Fleur.
Lastly, the dating guide, a date rape book? What in hell are you talking about?

 

How is this still a thread?

 

Because some people out there just really hate Ron. I have a few theories why:

1. It's been so long since they actually read the Books (if they ever did to begin with), they can only remember Ron as that caricature FanFics always write him as.

2. They just really hate Gingers.

3. They just really hate poor people. This is more plausible than you might think, what with so many Fics loving to focus on [upper-class] Pureblood society, Draco being a great person, and Harry becoming Uber-Rich.

4. They find the idea of an ordinary teenager with ordinary teenage traits surrounded by Übermensch boring.

5. They can actually relate to Ron's ordinary teenage traits a little too much, and in order to prove to everyone and themselves they're nothing like him they lash out at everything related to him until all that's left is a monster they so clearly have nothing in common with.

6. A bunch of the newbies who posted on this thread actually don't care that much, they're just trying to get their post count up.

 

That's all true, though my comment was actually more at the veterans of DLP who continuously provide well thought out responses to these stupid questions, most of which can be surmised by just reading the books again.

If people want to ask dumb questions it cannot be stopped, but usually if someone asks a really stupid questions reason is probably beyond them. Some of the questions are so inherently biased it is apparent they are probably never going to be convinced otherwise no matter the evidence. Especially to the fact that many of the questioners are newbies, who could probably find the answer to their questions somewhere else on the forums already or are just trolling.

Just seems like a waste of time in my opinion.

 

Warner, I have no idea where you got your "ideas" from but I will try my best to answer your post.

The answer to your first two questions is yes.

Regarding Hermione, if Ron and Hermione wasn’t going out, then why wouldn’t Ron be angry?

He doesn’t even really fancy Fleur you know it was more like a Veela charm from Fleur that seduces men around her not just Ron. You definitely have not read the passage that said a lot of boys were seduced by Fleur Delacour. Good to see your hypocrisy here.

He was prejudiced against Slytherin because hello Slytherin students was advocating intolerance and bigotry against Muggleborns and they also cheat to get what they wanted (e.g. Weasley is our King song) AND most of them despises anyone who is not in Slytherin he is supposed to be fine and dandy with a bunch of bigots and racists? Sure thing.

Ron is the same as Draco - :facepalm Yeah, because someone who is willing to die for his friends is completely the same as a coward who ran away as soon as his own skin is in danger.

Since when has Lavender been a hottie? And if you want to talk about Ron treating Lavender badly, you know Lavender only really ever wanted to snog Ron and not really talk about anything? The book even said Lavender seemed to feel that a moment not spend kissing Ron as a moment wasted. Now who is using whom here?

The twelve safe way books equals date rape book – wow, guess anyone who ever read about any kind of advice on relationships were actually reading date rape books.

 

Meanwhile in the actual canon verse, the girls giggle over daterape potions and Dumbledore thinks poorly of Riddle, Sr. for not hanging around after he had his brains addled and life torn apart.

But Ron read a book that basically sounds like a Maxim article. What a fucking monster.