Ooh, I’m allowed to talk to Vaimes now? Thank you, oh kind master!

Let’s start with your alternative facts.

Wrong. Newcomb and Reg were always fighting over us, and I specifically remember Newcomb thought I was towny and doubtful of you while Reg was the opposite. Font considered me confirmed town when Kalas flipped scum. I don’t remember her saying anything like that about you.

What makes you think I wasn’t townreading you before the start of this Day? I quite remember making a catch up post about you and deciding, “Oh hey, Vaimes looked weird before but he’s looking much better now that I’ve considered him!”

I never said I was scum-reading you before toDay. Can you point to where I said it? Oh, poor angels. I can imagine the scene.

Waco: “Vaimes could very possibly win now that Reg has turned against Vira.”

Jan: “Oh woe is me! What shall we do?”

Menace: “We cannot protect dear Kai because he will take Cobalt to the grave and end the game.”

Delphine: “But what about Reg? He too is against a member of town and never ever considers other worlds. Shall we not protect him as well?”

John F. Kennedy: “That is a wonderful idea. Instead, let us protect the two mislynch targets who will not be shot. It is better to purge the sludge from this disgusting world than saving town’s numbers. Of course Reg could be unkillable if we saved him and make it 100x more difficult for scum to win, but he's wrong and the wrong must die."

Jesus: “I have never been more in agreement. Cobalt is obviously against Vaimes, and Vira will 100% be on the side of good despite never saying who she thought was scum because she was a moron and didn't consider it. This can’t go wrong.” (Matthew 12:3).

Font: “Sold!”

Atum: “I’m here too.”

Please point me to a game where the angels at F5/F4 purposely chose to let all night kills go through on the off chance the remaining two lost souls will vote the right way without evidence.

 

Vira, you're wasting your time. I'm not interested in anything you have to say, because you are mafia.

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The fact is that Kai was much, much more likely to lynch me than Reg.

If I'm a witch, the Angels want to protect Kai, and leave Regfan to die. Because then town lynches me (or is at least much more likely to).

One thing you can answer me: why did they protect Reg, and not Kai?

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(I'll give you a hint: being townfirmed is meaningless if the Angels know you're pocketed too hard by mafia.)

 

Then why do you keep asking me to reply? You seem to like the potential of me replying in that I could utterly fail to do anything but don’t like the reality of me ripping your arguments in half.

Well I hope Kai was more likely to lynch you than Reg?

I’m pretty sure you mean Cobalt, but what makes you think so? Kai has been mentally super-imposing a bullseye on Cobalt all game.

Let’s explore some worlds!

World One: Kai dies. Vaimes vs. Vira, Cobalt, Reg. I am the obvious mislynch target. Reg has said in his EOD post he’s against me and townreads you. Cobalt could be talked over. Two for you, one for me, and one for who knows. Not bad!

World Two: Reg dies. Vaimes vs. Vira, Cobalt, Kai. Kai Leeroys Cobalt. Welp, there goes the game! Kill me gently.

World Three: Kai and Reg dies. Vaimes vs. Vira, Cobalt. Very unlikely angels wouldn’t protect one of Kai and Reg, but if it came to this, you could choose to make me the deciding vote because I had yet to state an opinion on that point, or choose Cobalt. This could backfire, or could go well. 50% ain’t bad!

Apparently one post is being pocketed too hard.

At this point in the game, town-confirmed is everything. How could you look at the people alive and think, "I wish someone I had to seriously consider as scum was here instead of Reg, who never changes his mind!"

That's like. So scummy. Why would you want more doubt when we have two crystal clear worlds?

 

I don't care what you say to me, because you're going to say whatever it takes to win. I just want your posts there for Cobalt/Reg to read later.

In the world where I'm mafia, Regfan is townfirmed but siding with me. This is bad. Angels don't want him in endgame because town will lose. Who gives a fuck about him being confirmed town if he's going to lose the game for everyone. Therefore, they do not protect him.

Also it still makes no sense for me to shoot him as mafia in the first place.

Kai was just as likely to kill me as he was to kill Cobalt.

 

How so?

I'm waiting for proof of this, but I don't think it's going to come.

 

Because he was trying and convince everyone to lynch you over me. If I'm mafia, that advances my win condition, not the Angels'.

Duh.

Kai wanting to kill me:

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I'm gonna log off so that I don't post anymore for at least tonight. I made my point.

Bye.

 

I personally aren't going to read too much into the angel save here. I understand where Vaimes is coming from with "Mafia wouldn't save someone that was going to decrease towns chances of winning" and "We know mafia didn't pick Kai" but I feel like there's a lot of levels behind the kill choice, the haunt choice and the save choice that are just...not that worth attempting to focus on instead of play/posts/rereading. Like I can put forward a reason for each of you to make almost any of those kills and reasons for you not to so it isn't the path I'm taking here.

 

Okay I needed to log back in to ask precisely how I ever benefit from a successful Reg shot.

 

There's the argument that mafia "need" night kills to go through to win the game, it's plausible that given my read on you that you could think that I was less likely to be protected last night making it the optimal night to kill me given I'm immune tomorrow night and possibly save-able the night after. There's also the flip side where as mafia you want me alive to defend you. It's just a whole angle of thinking I'd rather not use here tbh and rather play it based on reads and scumhunting. Pretty much don't find it a smoking gun for Vira to be mafia and really want to hear what Cobalt makes of everything that's transpired.

 

You do realize that if the kill went through then I'd be dead right now.

???

whatever, the game is solved from my POV and there's nothing else I can really say beyond my spamfest

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I don't know if I mentioned this and I'm too lazy to double check, but I don't think Cobalt crafts this endgame for himself. It's hugely beneficial for him to lynch Vira if he's mafia and knock off her vest. If he lynches me first, then he has to deal with you and her, and that's just making things pointlessly harder for himself.

So yeah.

I'm town, you're town, Cobalt's town.

boop

 

I don't think that is what makes you town here, I think you're town for a whole bunch of reasons I've gone into earlier (And Vira not responding to any of them is....) and I'm preeeety unlikely to vote you at the moment but I'd like a little more on "Why Vira is mafia outside of her play today and PoE" if you can.

 

Dropping the angel argument.

I’m rejecting the second quote because it’s from pre-Delphine lynch. The first… Hm, maybe? He’s talked a lot more about Cobalt than you and I’m pretty sure he’d blow up Cobalt, but I guess you’d see him as a threat.

I’m still working on that post. :/

 

I think we're going to clash a bit here.

It doesn't matter to me. I townread her for nearly the entire game, so looking back and finding scummy things in her posts isn't something I feel I can do. She made herself look good, and anything can be twisted to look scummy, so it'd just feel like pointless mudslinging even though I know I'm right.

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I don't see the point in digging up her posts when "her play toDay and POE" have pretty much cemented her as scum in my mind.

It's also "Cobalt's play toDay and POE" that makes him significantly more town than her.

But this is probably just a playstyle difference.

 

Vaimes - What I'm moreso trying to get at is that, I can understand your reasoning behind town reading Cobalt here in regards to his play today. I can understand how that leads towards you being confident that Vira is mafia from your point of view. It's just not translating to me having the same opinion and I think given the amount of content inside this game there should be indicators of someone being a mafia at some point throughout the game, anything in particular of Viras that you find sketchy from memory?

I'm mostly in a "Collating information" stage and at about ~60% through the thread, I'll post the major interactions / sections I think are relevant and worth reading into when I'm done that probably tomorrow? Sorry, if this feels slow and drawn out.

 

If you won't work, why do I have to? :/

I'm in the same stupid boat. I re-read Vaimes before and liked him, and he's basically been on every wagon I've been on.

And still I can’t remember anything Vaimes has done. I had this problem before. He seems disconnected and hasn’t started anything. I started the wagons on Kalas, Rubicon, and Jari. What has he done? Seriously, tell me.

And I don’t want morsels of “Oh, but Vaimes/Whoever can't ever be w/w because it’s such an odd comment and…” Fuck off. Why does he get the benefit of the doubt and I don’t? People quoted dozens of conversations I had with the people I lynched and said the same thing, but no, Reg’s already made us his perfect little head and won’t even answer my question.

It’s frustrating.

Just. Why do I even try?

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I just want someone to interact with me and not ignore me.

Or is that too much to fucking ask?

 

I killed Koalas, thanks.

 

Shoot Kalas or scum-claim? What a hard decision.

What else have you done?

 

Regfan has a pinecone up his butt. It makes no sense for me, as a witch, to shoot him in this game, with these players, the reads they've been presenting, with the roles they have. I will say this until the cows come home, and I bet him a nickel that half of deadchat will say the exact same thing once this is over.

If I'm scum and Regfan had died, I would be dead right now. Like actually dead! And the game would be over, QTs released and everything. I have two votes on me, right now. That means game over witch!Vaimes if F3 is me/Vira/Cobalt, which is a trash scenario that requires a level of suspension of disbelief that defies time and space. I might as well shoot myself for all the good a Reg shot would do me. Like yeah, it isn't guaranteed that Vira and Cobalt were gonna vote for me, but removing Reg from endgame when he's on my side is so phenomenally against my wincon if I'm a witch that the most likely explanation is that I didn't make the kill.

Angels saving Reg is a borderline green check on me, because if I am a witch and Regfan is defending me, then Angels do not save him. If I had to pick a single point to sell on me being town here, it would be that. Fuck my behavior, my interactions, my mindset, my meta, I do not care. A confirmed villager that is defending a witch is a useless villager. Angels protect someone who is likely to win them the game. This is the single biggest borderline hard-confirmed piece of evidence that Regfan casually tossing it aside actually makes me feel way too many variations of what the fuck.

scumbalt doesn't benefit at all from a Reg shot + Vaimes lynch either. His push on me means he is very likely town, because it would result in the same exact F3 toMorrow and he'd have to deal with two unkillable players. I don't think he'd be able to sweet talk Reg into killing Vira at that point, and Vira would 100% know Cobalt was mafia.

There really is nothing else I have to say aside from variations of the above. I'm just going to be a broken record. Reg, you said to listen to me/Kai when it came to mechanics should you die, but now you're here for me to drone at you so l i s t e n when I say that Angels saved you because you are on the right track. If I were a witch, they'd have let you die 100% of the time, no brakes. Townfirms mean nothing if they have bad reads, confirmed villagers are useless if they're hard-defending mafia, you could be the towniest person to have ever existed but if your strongest townread is on mafia then you are u s e l e s s. How many times do I have to say it.

 

Okay. What if you didn't?

Your whole argument is that angels wouldn't save Reg if he wasn't on the right track. You are angry Reg is not buying it.

Did you Illusion Kill Reg?

 

Did you?

/ten

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I will say that that's a totally fair point. I mentioned the IK a bunch but got too excited about Angel saves to consider that you'd counter with that.

I guess he'll have to townread my behavior and junk after all.

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Man, I didn't even consider for a single second that the kill on Reg was faked. Which is awful, because if that's the case then it means no info from the dead.