I suspected that might have been the case but I wasn't sure. I'm glad.

 

Guys, I'm totally going to post stuff for reals now.

Preliminary thoughts that stood out to me:

Jan is town. His push on me is stupidly overconfident and not thought through. As scum, you pick a mislynch you can decend scumreading the next day and one that makes you look good for pushing on, so not me. Jan's a bit of a proud creature when it comes to reading ability (him reading me correctly in Owner's market), so it's not hard to imagine town!Jan thinking he's actually got me here. The whole "outted scum" just fits so much more with town!jan" on the prowl than scum!jan that I'm confident in this read without rereading.

I've reconsidered on Vaimes, and think I may have redirected scumvibes I got from Reg onto him in my tunnel. The good news there is that I can maintain that there was indeed something fishy going on, I just misidentified the main source.

Also, Adult is scum.

I'll now reread and Iso and stuff to get a wall in sometime today. (I'm on vacation, thought I'd be spending more time itt than I have been, soz.)

 

Well first of all, the catch-up wall was intended to provide reasoning for people who CARED. I spoilered it and provided some stuff outside it specifically so it could be skipped if people just wanted to know what conclusions I'd arrived at. (Speaking of which, I am spoilering most of the reasoning I am providing now because it's only interesting if you want to know my account of why I did things. Which probably isn't useful or important to everyone)

Spoiler

In terms of it being not great quality...I'm inclined to agree. I felt compelled to in some way "comment on the game thus far" and make some effort to catch up, but it was a chore I had to get out of the way before actually PLAYING. I also have a history of being bad with textwalls, although this is more under control than it used to be.

RE: Q, first up a lot of my problem was relative blandness. This is kind of a vague concept, but it basically means "I didn't notice them much" which usually sets off an alarm bell because scum try to avoid being noticed too much. This combined with an actual no-post period after some criticism was enough to form a preliminary read. This was later mitigated by meta-commentary from people who had played with Q, however.

Following this, I just felt like Q's posts became more impactful and relevant. Essentially it transitions from "infrequent pointless morsels" to "infrequent Acio-style useful morsels". #503/505 feel like an example of this (picking at discrepancies and oddities), #509 is bringing up an attack ON HIM that had since been dropped (and why bother if you're scum and it might just remind the attacker to go after you again?), et cetera. And speaking of Acio...

The thing with Acio is just that I think the picking he did had an effective town purpose behind it and I've noticed a pattern of scum who haven't played with Acio much viewing his D1 townplay as an easy way to cast shade on someone. This looked like a continuation of that. tl;dr I felt like you chose not to look hard enough at what he was doing and just swiped at him for a surface level interpretation of his behaviour.

As for why this wasn't followed up on you afterward...basically, it was a preliminary read based on an early post that then wasn't borne out by your behaviour later on (which seemed more in-depth and considered). Plus thinking about it later I realized part of my reaction was because I know how Acio operates and thus that what you said isn't really accurate, but that doesn't necessarily mean you do.

Lessee...#455 wasn't my first justified scumread given that the Q read WAS substantiated in my first post in the thread (as you mention earlier). Second, sure, but eh. The random shade at Jaziok was essentially because it was gutfeels and generic "maybe" tells, which wasn't as strong as the narrative that I was building around Q at the time. I came back to Jaziok because I had literally forgotten about him because he wasn't doing anything interesting (and I was chasing people who WERE) which, when I realized it, set off alarm bells as it did with Q. This combined with the wagon containing a bunch of my townreads made it a pretty obvious vote to cast.

For those of you who didn't bother with that mess, Q's posts felt more impactful/relevant after I cast the vote and this combined with someone meta-vouching for Q's current play (again, remind me to talk about this D2) was enough to make me want to look elsewhere for a D1 lynch.

Oh, and Stanari asked for my scumgames earlier. You can take a quick look at those if it helps.

---------- Post automerged at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

EBWOP: goddamit Jarizok WHY is Adult scum?

 

The suspense is killing ya, aint it? I'll get to it in the wall.

 

Oh it's not ME it's killing

...but alright, we'll see how that goes.

 

This is actually the same sort of reason I think Q's posts look worse recently. I generally just had that feeling he was town because similarly to you I was following the meta reads of his scum play generally focusing on looking good and feigning a "textbook" sort of town game. Thing is I think recently his focus on me and Plot *has* been really directed and focused on maintaining appearance. I get the impression he is simply floating on his scum reads on us two and making up reason to justify casting shade on us as he goes along with no actual thought or follow-through behind it. (Ex: #646, #633)

It makes me wonder if there's some sort of "tried to tailor his early game to fit his town meta, but dropped it when stuff started to get real" shenanigans going on. To be clear I don't mean this post in an antagonistic way, just wondering if you make anything of it.

 

I guess I've read more into his minor side niggling? That feels more relevant on D1 to me than it does on future days, since a lot of it is a rapid churn to see which pokes produce something interesting (and I do feel like he's poked at a lot of different things). So my impression on directed focus on you and Plot is that he's picked up THOSE pokes as the most promising ones and is following them further now.

In terms of the "tailored early game to fit town meta thing"...honestly, that's a higher level meta read than I'm competent at pulling off. I'm barely at "has acted this way in the past" level. Now that you mention it though...I'm not sure I agree. It reads more as taking time to get into the swing of things, and it's complicated by the fact that Q's scum meta is apparently "being townread" and vice versa so it's like, is he scum or has his townplay just gotten better? It obfuscates things.

However, there is a reason I've put Q in the "investigate tomorrow" pile and not the "locktown" pile, and aside from the meta thing it's that throwing up shit to see what sticks is ALSO a valid scum tactic. It just happens to be one of my D1 town tactics too (although in retrospect, when it works it's because people wagon me for it and I can analyze the resulting wagon...), so I am particularly cognizant of the town mindset that might be there and inclined to see where he's going with this.

I will try and split my focus a bit more to pay attention to everyone at the same time, though. My record this game so far has been kind of "latch onto target, forget everyone else exists until target becomes boring and I start looking for a new target" and I should probably be doing better >_>

 

Hey. Hey Jarizok,

This is the reason why Vaimes is town.

Also, @everyone who wants to lynch Plotless

Can someone give me a comprehensive case on him that isn't just "his opening post here is bad, so pls lynch thx."?

Cuz like, as far as I remember, his posts haven't pinged me at all, and I've no strong opinion of him either way.

---------- Post automerged at 06:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

Yeah I read through Plot's iso and while I think his vote on Stanari and the reasoning behind is super weak, I'm not getting any super scummy vibes from him. Granted, he's not done anything I particularly like, but...

 

TOWN:

I find dichotomousCreator entrance post of him claiming he didn't realise the game had started inside Post #322 very genuine and think it's something near impossible for him to have believed if he was mafia, also moar raisons here. I liked his initial catch up inside Post #351, found the flow of reads very understandable when matching them up in the thread and disagree with Pie re; the "This means x/y about team/partners" being a scum tell and like most of those type comments from DC. Find the stances and explanations like his Vaimes/Font/Q one in Post #373, his thoughts in Post #404 and analysis of Waco in Post #549 as all him attempting to genuine gamesolve and the fact that his 'vote pool' is effectively the same three as mine in Post #615 is a pretty good sign. Also find his reaction towards Pies huge post in Post #663 super town.

I like Pienyans interaction with me about Cobalt in a read back, can very much see her believing what she's saying and despite her very likely being wrong on Cobalt there I can understand how she ended up with that read especially given her lack of knowledge of Cobalts meta. The type of thoughts in her Post #426 read as her genuinely considering all angles. I don't think she directs Post #437 to me here if she's scum and I find her thoughts on me in Post #439 pretty on-point. The reads list and reasons attached in Post #508 makes plenty of sense and fits with his prior reads/thoughts very well. Most largely though I find her analysis of DC's posts in Post #657 well and truly outside of her scum range (And I really respect Pie's scum game, she's had a ridiculous success rate as scum lately) and I'm well aware that I'm going to get egg on my face and she'll never let me down for this if she's mafia but the entire reasons and way she's gone about it matches very much how I know she thinks as town and I found her reaction towards my vote on her pretty genuine too.

I mentioned it earlier but I don't think Vaimes's makes Post #2 as scum as not just his first post but the first post in the game, I also find his reaction towards Fonti in Post #68 and Acio in Post #96 to read very town. I also don't think he ends up posting the "75%' thing as mafia like he did in Post #117 and think it's a pretty huge town tell despite how frustrating it is. Find his interactions with Cobalt during that early spat ie. Post #142 to be him actually trying to move towards solving the game. I like the way he's posted his thoughts on Q in Post #498 and the post-merges there really feels like him thinking about it. and his stance on Kai and reasoning in Post #502 matches mine. I'd be pretty impressed if this is Vaime's scum game given so many of his reads and his attitude read very natural.

I really like Miners 'hipfire' reads inside Post #364, the depth behind the Zenzao read comes across as very genuine and the way he's handling reading Vaimes in that post reads pretty town; continue to like his thoughts inside Post #467 and Post #475; there's not as much as I remember from him but those posts in particular (As well as what someone mentioned re; his attitude coming across in a swagy-relaxed fashion) mean he's very much probably town here.

Still like Blabs early posting on a reread, comes across as over-eager town trying to get to some early conclusions and feels very comfortable inside the thread; posts like Post #58 and Post #67 feel like him just hip-firing reads he's thinking about. The way he comments about his own reads in Post #405 comes across pretty genuine and I liked the way he interacted with Kai in Post #410 and proceeded to vote him in Post #441. I like just about all of his reads in Post #470 and the explantion behind the Adult and Kai ones in Post #479 make a lot of sense. Pretty sure the dudes town.

Taking a break then going through Cobalt, Jan, Zenzao and Acionyx.

---------- Post automerged at 06:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 AM ----------

If no one is going to post I'll just automerge as I go I guess?

I liked Cobalts reaction towards the Jarizok/Acio Vaimes votes in Post #91 and and actually find the way he went about town reading me and explaining the read to Vaimes in Post #98 and Post #148 as well as just about every other thought of his there. I also like his explanation re; his early game posting in Post #143 and find him sticking to his guns on not moving his vote until he's actually started playing properly a town tell. I think the way he goes about explaining how he's reading the interaction between Vaimes/Myself in Post #160 shows him attempting to read into things and actually gamesolve from them. I really like that he intentionally went into this game with the same sort of mindset as I did re; "Read the people you just spend a month playing with" in Post #568 and tonally that catch up as well as pretty much all of his posts so far strongly point towards this being his town game. The entire thought process in the first half of his Post #592 feels very unfiltered and natural and outside of a few reads I like where he's ended up on most players inside Post #594. Would be willing to bet he's just town here.

I find Zenzao's reaction towards me ruining his gambit in Post #259 combined with his explanation of it in Post #262 and his continued frustration in Post #285 as very genuine and don't think he'd be anywhere near as annoyed as mafia with that and the reads in the latter post lined up with where I was at the time in most places. Going back over his interaction with Fable I think I agree with Pie in that it feels like Zenzao thinks he's caught onto something there even if the reasoning behind it is poor, can really see him believing what he's saying. Went into it earlier but I liked his Post #534 where he touches on his reads pre-reead and felt it was very similar to his MM play where he was town. I also think the entire huge paragraph re; talking about his poor track record at times as town is a pretty natural place to go to when posed with a "give someone power" question as town and one that's less likely for mafia to revert to. Admittedly this is probably one of my weaker town reads reasoning wise but think/hope his reread thoughts really just solidify this read.

---------- Post automerged at 06:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 AM ----------

I like both of Acio's reads on Jan/Jari in Post #166 especially because while they matched mine the reasoning behind them was preciously where I was at with them before I'd vocalised it. I like how he's going about prodding and questioning people on whatever he considers important / alignment indicative like his Post #305, very much feels like him trying to piece the game together and getting others opinions to help him with that; he does a similar thing when attempting to read Zenzao in Post #355. I really like his thoughts on Q/Plotless in Post #319, I think I agree with it entirely too. I like his "who would you gun type question in Post #483 and think it's him attempting to generate content inside the game, think it's less likely a way mafia go about it and him prodding people on it in Post #514 is a good look. The way he talks about Q (Someone he was already voting) in Post #571 and the reasoning behind it feels very very town and still like his thoughts on Q/Plotless in Post #619. In a pretty dull way of phrasing it I can see him actually attempting to gamesolve inside his posts and feel pretty good about him being town.

Don't everyone talk at once....

Going to take a break then get around to Jan.

---------- Post automerged at 06:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 AM ----------

If anyone disagrees with any of the above reads / reasoning they should let me know.

Also DC - Are you an Australian too?

 

Regfan --- Yep! Same timezone as you, too.
Adult --- RE: Plotless, I'm getting pings on my "flying under the radar D1" alert and seeing nothing of merit from him. Combined with the so far pretty good D1 standards, that plus a weak Stanari vote plus no meta excuse is enough to put him on the chopping block in my books.

 

Okay Pien might actually just be a villager cuz if 657 came from wolf then idk how you're suppose to catch that.

Feel a lot worse about jar after 662, the back down from vaimes feels really bad. I mean yes I feel vaimes is a villager but saying "oh whoops it was actually just reg the whole time that was a wolf and I confused him with vaimes" after he did a whole post of quoting vaimes posts he thought were wolfy seems incredibly fake.

Vote:Jarizok

 

dichotomousCreator - Awesome, don't meet that many Australian scummers. Got any disagreements with any of my reads at all?


I liked Jans' early game posting with Fable/Blab, felt very relaxed and like that all his reads in Post #135 matched mine and the follow up reasons behind his actions in Post #152 is pretty reasonable, similarly I found his response to Stanari's Fonti vote in Post #167 pretty close to mine of it. I really like his interaction with Fontisian and push for her to actually state a read/stance on him inside Post #216 and much later in Post #611, don't think it's a move he makes as scum there at all. His reads list in Post #406 and reasoning earlier on from him are very easy to follow how he got to those conclusions and they're all very close to where I am. I also really like his attitude re; not being able to find scum reads and considering how many scum are really outside of his PoE (Whether they all are or not) since it's a very natural place to be and exactly where I've been for quite some time now, he brings up the same type of thing again in Post #572 which shows it's something really on his mind. I also think meta-wise this is very close to his play in both MM & Owners Marketplace where he was town with his thoughts and reads being clearly portrayed.

So yeah, I've pretty sure that dichotomousCreator, pienyan, Vaimes, Miner, Blab, Cobalt, Zenzao, Acio and Jan are all town, would be awesome if there's absolutely zero scum in there but hoping there's a maximum of one there. Think putting them all aside and lynching in the remainders is the best way to proceed.

 

Also fonti is starting to feel kind of different to me than she did last game. Low impact I guess? A lot of her posts arn't really sticking with me like they did last time.

 

There's not a lot more to it sadly, dislike some of their earlier posts, don't find their reads and scumhunting in the latter posts particularly genuine and find the lack of content and activity from them more indicative of newer scum players, that combined with not really having a better scum read there and lots of town reads is why I'm voting there for now. If I don't have people join me by tomorrow night I'll probably move and consolidate on someone like Kai or Jarizok or Stanari, might consider Waco too but I'm hoping his posts when he comes in next gives me a better idea on him.

---------- Post automerged at 07:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

Eh, I'm not going to try and go down the path of attempting to read Fontisian too strongly D1 especially when she's outright stated she's been sick, pretty happy to just give her a pass for now.

 

Making a note that this pinged me, too. Meta-wise, I'm surprised font hasn't been more involved.
Regfan --- If there's a scum in your list, I think it'd be in Vaimes/Miners/Blabs. While I don't disagree with what you said about them per se, I don't see hip-firing reads as the towntell you seem to (this is more pronounced if the hip-fired read turns out to be WRONG, but only time will tell on that) and I definitely don't think Vaimes is out of his scumrange here (damn you, Cathunt Vaimes!)

That said, I am not up to lynch any of those three today. I just think they're the weakest points in your town block.

---------- Post automerged at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 PM ----------

EBWOP: Oh I completely forgot font said medical reasons. Okay, disregard that.

 

Oh right that's a thing.

Fine just giving her a day pass then.

 

Yeah, I'm on board with the "fonti gets a pass for now". Plus, for me fonti is kind of self-resolving in that she usually chainlynches scum and if she doesn't do so she gets the noose.

We understand each other.

Also, I can see your points DC and Reg but there's also the problem where I'd rather lynch someone where we can get info from the flip rather than someone like Plot, who I feel has a relatively low impact and low presence in the game and so his flip wouldn't tell us much.

 

Stop tagging me wrongly. I don't even watch RWBY!

 

To be fair, neither do I...

 

Completely fair, I'd agree that the reasoning behind Miner being town is probably one of the weaker ones but even then it's still a read I feel ~pretty good~ about and the Vaimes read is admittedly largely a meta / personal type read based on how he's interacted with me, if he's scum I'm sure I'll notice it at some point anyway so it's not a read I'm hugely worried about.

I'm mostly just lynching today for the highest chance of hitting scum, I think a scum lynch combined with the town reads I have and the interaction analysis it brings (Even if it's not a huge amount) would be enough to lock this game down, currently I think that's Plotless. I'm willing to be sold if you've got a stronger scum read / better reasoning elsewhere though.

---------- Post automerged at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 AM ----------

And with that I'm heading to bed.