I'm referring to his initial response of "oh so you want to make scum target choices easier" that he follows by answering the question after I say pretty please.

 

I'm pretty ok with it? Imo, your intentions and towniess were a lot clearer? as you kept talking.

 

I disagree.

Aside from that, "Thread consensus townreads get people killed" is a stance I've seen people have before and the worry behind it is unconnected to whether or not you think the person asking for them is scum.

Blab registering that concern and then dropping it without any discussion or pressing doesn't show the mindset of actually being worried about the issue as much as "this seems like a towny response".

And notably he gives an answer after several other people make answering it the hip thing to do.

 

Rude.

Obviously it's no.2.

 

Come on Acio,
I was like "I don't like to answer a question so close to "who should scum kill"
you were like "how about you actually consider I have a daykill?"
and I was like "....OK"

---------- Post automerged at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

and I wasn't that worried about "the issue", I suppose, just being difficult, I guess

---------- Post automerged at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

and I also only posted later than others because they jumped in the thread so quickly.

---------- Post automerged at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

I didn't mean it like that this time, I mean a joke like "I'm the priest" isn't scummy if everyone gets a kick out of it, but if only one does it, the motivation comes clearly from outside the thread.

 

DC
Jan
Fonti
pienyan
Acionix
Blab
Waco
Q
Fable
Zenzao
Plotless
Kai
Stanari
Cobalt
Miner
Regfan

 

I've been waiting for a wall on me all morning

 

I find it hard to believe you forgot me, Jari boo.

 

I didn't

---------- Post automerged at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Was kind of hoping other people would point that out though.

---------- Post automerged at 22:54 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Ehh, I'm tired from catching all that scum, I just slotted the last 3 ppl I said I was gonna do (and Fonti, who I forgot/skipped) into the wall. For what it's worth you come across as a bit stilted/nervous which is why I'm scumleaning you. Contentwise I feel like there's nothing too incriminating yet.

 

Jarizok

Elaborate?

 

Well, with him being all, "miner is totes town because of yadayadda" while Miner's actually scum.

---------- Post automerged at 23:01 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------

Or did you actually want me to explain why? Finefine, I'll grab the post.

 

Alright, let's get back to this now that I'm feeling awake.

Starting from the top of my wall and working down, so Fable is up first.

#3 is his introduction post, a joke response to Vaimes RVS' of Miner.
#6 also joking with Jan right above.
#11 further joking with blab.
#15 he finally (seemingly) RVS votes Stanari.
#17 he responds to Jan's poke about why he(Fable) did not RVS sooner and I do not like his response here. His follow up to Jan poking him again about it in #19 just comes off bad, and the reason why is that he's trying to pass it off as RVS when it isn't, and Stanari to that point hasn't done anything to warrant a serious vote - she hasn't even posted yet. If she had and was prodding him or another user over something, or if she had done something meta-related that he picked up on, then fine, I'd accept it being a serious vote even if he was beating around the bush in explaining it, because I've serious voted Mathblade my first vote and first post of Narutomafia based off of her behavior.

The only other possibility I see is if he picked Stanari to get a reaction test out of the way, and possibly Jan. In the former case he's scum, in the latter case he's neutral depending on what follows up.

#22 responds to Jan seriously.
#25 is just weird responding to Miner. It's neither the joking attitude he's had to date or serious and just feels like filler for the sake of filler, since he doesn't even address Miner's vote on Fonti.
When blab calls him out in #26, Fable's #27 is essentially nothing.

#45 he responds to me re:Jan not having a lot of back-and-forth with any one user, as I'd expected from HPM. He is serious here. I respond to him in #47 and lay down a lie about RVS votes, just as I did with Lyric(I think) in MM.

Stanari notes the same thing I did in her #49 and #51 and serious votes Fable. His response in #54 has the same kind of weirdness that his post on Miner had. Vaimes' #55 prods him over shading Stanari for her serious vote, blab interjects in #56, Waco fluff's in #57. Not quite sure what to make of blab's #58 responding to Jan on Fable here.

His #65 is seemingly back to a joking tone, but I don't like the context since its following a Vaimes/blab back-and-forth immediately beforehand. Mostly comes across as shading. Vaimes' responds to that in #68 and I'm more than a little curious about his tone here, since I don't know Vaimes to be so certain this early.

Stanari addresses Fable's shade in #69, and he's right back to joking with her in his #71. Fonti pokes Stanari's #69 in her #72, Stanari sort-of joking in her #73 followup to Fable.

Fable unvotes Stanari in his #80 and I just don't follow his train of thought here. Unvoting her after Fonti has RVS'd her only to then turn around and vote Fonti?

He returns to the thread in #209 with a fluff piece.

#217 he posts a reads list. +Reg, +/- Acio, nulls on Stanari and Jarizok, +Cobalt, softball +Vaimes, +Jan, -pienyan with shade/callback to playing as scum in another game. Null/-blab.

This, when combined with his opening posts and 'RVS' vote on Stanari and flip to fonti later on, nothing meaningful following on, does not indicate a town mindset to me. Jan's #218 notes much the same thing I did.

Fable addresses Jan in his #220 seriously. Scumteam behavior noted.

Jan's #221 pokes him over pienyan, null's pienyan, asks for a Cobalt read. Fable responds in #227 and counter -pienyan.

While I do agree with his initial assessment on her opening post, it feels like he's retroactively justifying his not-RVS vote on her, and since he isn't demonstrating that he was trying to get a reaction from her, this just feels further scummy. Soft +Cobalt.

#230 is just pointless filler. He should be posing questions for when other users beside Jan will be on, and he should be making use of Jan being there to help him build his grasp of the gamestate instead of just blowing the opportunity off. Jarizok nudges him in #232. And I don't really like his response to Vaimes here, for that matter.

#234 prods Jarizok. Vaimes also digs back at Jarizok in #235.

#245 he responds to Regfan. +Vaimes, seems to null-Acio(I think? Assuming that acid=Acio here). I find it odd that he says its too early to rule out a scum-world where a scum player deflects town from a partner. Softball evades addressing more of Reg's list, null's Plotless. #247 confirms it was Acio.

Jarizok softball's +Fable in #250. There interactions are starting to really ping me at this point. Fable a bit serious in his #251 and prods Vaimes for a thought process.

#253 he pokes me over my opening wall in #252. I respond in #254 with bait. Fable's #258 prods me, which under other circumstances I'd find favorable. No TMI slip. He prods me again in #261 while responding to Reg. I respond in #262 and assumed that would be that.

#266 prods blab over voting Fonti. Blab counters with what amounts to filler in #267, and Fable's #268 prods him again. Blab evades and prods him back. #270 rings false and slots me and pienyan into a supposed PoE.

Blab prods him over his hangup on dC's placement in my wall in #271, Fable's reasoning in #272 feels like he's now trying to justify swinging onto me.

Fonti pokes him for his response there in her #273, and blab promptly drops the subject to poke her in his #274.

#278 filler. No further follow-up with blab or Fonti, no questions aimed at Vaimes' post, just filler.

#288 followup on my #285, resumes his note on dC's placement. I respond in #298 and explain my reasoning, once more assuming that that is enough. #307 he's hung up on dC's placement, and while I do admit that it isn't the worse line of thought, with everything else he's done to this point taken into consideration it feels like he is determined to make this his whole reason for scum-reading me.

#310 -Jarizok in response to Acio. Feels like a callback to Jarizok's earlier response to... Vaimes, I think, about liking whoever was town-reading him. Vaimes prods him in #311, Fable's #312 reads evasive. I respond to his shade about dC/wall in #315.

#323 filler to dC's arrival.

#328 he finally posts a wall. And then does not vote either myself or pienyan. Casts shade on both of us by saying 'w/w IDK?'. Reg asks him for his reasoning behind scum-reading me in #334.

I prod him over not voting me in #337. His #340 finally pushes on me, yet again refuses to vote.

#342 attempts to wave off why he isn't voting me yet feels fine lurking on Fonti pages and pages ago for no real reasoning. And since his earlier vote on Stanari was bullshit, this rings even more falsely.

Reg responds to his #340 in #343 and prods him over his insistence. #346 finally eases back a little in response to Reg while not really doing so. He's really trying to push a scum!Zen world. I respond to him in #348 and call him out at this point. Reg responds to his #346 in #349. His #350 response to me blows it off, IMO, with more shade. He tries to mask his non-vote of me with his bullshit on swapping to Fonti. I counter in #352.

#354 he responds to dC. He does note he(Fable) and Stanari have familiarity together. dC addresses that in #358 and makes some good points about the interaction. He also +/- me regarding the wall-gambit. #360 Fable links the aforementioned familiarity/game.

#357 when he responds to me is so salty and OMGUS. I respond in #361. #362 he defends his non-vote on me and comes off further salty.

# surly response to Miner over Fonti.

Miner prods him back in #366, #367 Fable reacts with a tad more outrage than I'd think is justified here. Miner's #368 is weird in response to that, and Fable's #369 prods him. Stanari's #374 quoting him is null.

Fonti -Fable in #370. He prods her in #372.

Fable's #378 responds to Quid's question about us playing together before he casts more shade.

#380 nudges Reg re: more votes on Plotless.

Stanari and dC's #384-385 is worth noting regarding the game-opening and their(Stanari + Fable) interactions since.

Don't like Fable's #386 on the matter. He's really trying to backtrack. Just reminds me all over again about the initial problems with his not-RVS vote of Stanari at the beginning of the game. Trying to distance himself from that. dC notes it too in #388 and dings him over trying to shake (my) vote on him.

#389 is essentially evasive filler. Stanari responds to his prod at Miner in her #390.

#391 softball +Plotless.

Pienyan addresses Fable's scumread on her in her #413. He responds in #447. Softball +pienyan. Nulls over Kai and Cobalt. Softball -Jarizok and Vaimes. Softball 'no lynch Stanari D1'.

I respond to him in #392 and finally table him to begin looking elsewhere, though I ultimately did not make much in the way of progress since that point, and I'm running through things now.

dC prods Fable over his phrasing on Stanari as the lynch. His response in #449 is even more bullshit after everything else he's done regarding her at gamestart and since then, and feels like he's now trying to distance himself from a failed process with her.

His #452 is yet more filler aimed at blab(I assume, for voting Stanari given blab's response) instead of doing anything game-solving. Blab's #453 is +/- and so is Fable's response in #454.

dC votes him in #455 and I agree with dC's main points, but would add his evasion and such I've noted. Fable responds in #456 which is mostly useless. He doesn't try to solve anything but just goes 'go read another game of mine', and even if that might help(in which case linking respective posts?), he shouldn't be so concerned about this but should be trying to help pin down the scumteam instead of shaking what few votes are on him.

dC follows it up in #457, Fable casts more shade about looking at votes and does offer a game link in #458. dC follows up with #460 asking for relevant points.

Fable's #461 attempts to explain his behavior this game and I don't buy it. He definitely had an agenda at gamestart and with prolonging his hang-up on me.

dC's #462 is a fantastic response on the matter of looking at votes and Fable's evasive attempts.

Fable's #463 suddenly backs off on his stance on me. Calling my playstyle aggressive is fair, but then he throws yet more shade at the end.

His response to dC in #466 might have been taking at face value if (for the umpteenth time) he actually had RVS voted either Stanari or Fonti instead of trying to play it off as such.

Fable's #471 continues to be useless filler, until he gets to addressing blab's wall from #470 in his #473. Softball null's Miner. +Acio, +Vaimes. Continues to cast shade at me and now has the gall to call my response to him OMGUS. Softball - to null Waco, which I'd agree with at this point. Softball -pienyan, casting shade. +Reg. Trolls over Fonti. +Jan. Softball -Plotless. Softball null's Jarizok. +Cobalt, why? TMI? Partner? Softball +Kai. Softball +Stanari.

And surprise surprise, he is still scum-reading me at the bottom of his list, along with pienyan. Nothing has changed since the last wall he posted.

Miner prods him over his reads on Acio, pien, and Stanari in #475. Fable responds in #476. +Stanari. Shade at pienyan. +Acio.

Miner pokes him over the Acio read in #477, and in #478 he just goes with it.

Pienyan responds to him in #480 and explains her behavior/play style. +Fable.

Vaimes prods him in #492 on his view of Stanari from #449.

#497 responding to pienyan does not sit well with me at this point. Prods Quid for explanation of Quid's wall, and I presume also Quid's vote on him from #481. Prods him over having Vaimes low. Nominates Jan/Vaimes in response to Acio's question. Softball- to null Stanari in response to Vaimes.

Vaimes responds in #498 and prods Q over the wall. #522 Fable responds re: Stanari scum-games. Softball null. Responds to dC and calls himself defensive usually(Anyone else got confirmation of that, because I think I did see it brought up at one point?). Prods pienyan for more info on Miner and Acio but... feels too little too late.

dC responds to him in #524 and I do agree regarding faking play.

Fable responds with #526 linking a scumgame, so I will have to check that at some point and see if it holds up.

Regfan's #546 seems to be what I was looking for re: Fable's playstyle. I don't think that's enough to convince me though, not after all of this.

If I'm understanding this correctly, Jan is townreading Fable in #550. Which... does irk me, on top of Reg's defense, especially because of how low I have Jan on my wall. I'm going to need to look harder at both of them when that time comes and see if they ping me.

#562 responds to Jan. Prods Waco re: Q.

#566 fluff response to Vaimes.

Cobalt's #568 +Fable. Bear's scrutiny, and I would like to hear why Cobalt likes it given the problems I and Jan noted with that post.

#671 +pienyan, -Jarizok. Don't necessarily agree with the phrasing here either, as it again feels like what he did with me a while ago.

#673 and #676 are null.

Jarizok calls him out in #681. On the fence about Jarizok's response. Fable's #682. Feels a bit like reaching here. Jarizok's #683 feels alright on the surface. I'll see if that holds up when I get to him next, later, because facing this process again so soon is going to be torture.

Fable remains in my top scum spot at this point.

---------- Post automerged at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Cripes, I don't feel like wading into more posts right now. Is there anything I need to respond to in particular? Yo, Jarizok, good to see you being more active and getting your wall together.

 

Zenzao, you're not going to summarize the whole game for every player, are you?

 

Miner on Zen: why did he blow up over the wall? He's weird.

Blab: great thinking there Miner! Original thoughts that you would totally think.

Miner on Pien: newbies don't make waves as scum.

Blab great thinking there Miner! Original thoughts that you would totally think.

Especially the Pienyan argument doesn't make sense, since obviously if you only know 1 person in the game (and better than anyone else in the game), that's where your focus is going to be. Why does a new player HAVE to play up that angle as scum? Sure, it gets you out of committing to townreads, but her post was a What-to-watch-out-for post on Reg, not a townread that'd be irksome for scum.

It's just basic weaksauce, not what I'd call "original" at all. The rest is tone and Blab saying Miner probably really thinks tunneling D1 is the best time to do it.

That's probably true, but tunneling whenever is no bueno, so why advocate someone do it all?

Anyway, none of this is anywhere near unfakeable, but Blab still finishes with "I don't think Scum!Miner could post like this". I don't know how well Blab and Miner know each other, but Blab must have a rather low estimation of Miner to really believe that.

The whole post reads more like someone wanting to townread miner, or conf!biasing into it because lots of people were doing it and they needed an angle to back their read up. Since I didn't find any scummy stuff anywhere else from Blab, I think it's the second option.

 

Any thoughts on the thing I noted from Blab?

 

Holy mother of walls Zen. A for effort. Now I can't maintain a null read on you. Consider yoursel lightgreen.

 

You haven't seen me build a case before, have you mate? It's what I do. But no, I'm probably not going to go through this process for everyone.

I'd prefer to get through the upper rows of my wall, so Fable(done, ~3 hours), Jarizok, Cobalt, Waco, Stanari, and Plot. I'd also prefer to get through Regfan and Jan too just to see how they fare against Fable, but I just don't have the time if I want to be able to have a clear(ish) head and try to read anything meaningful from it. I've already picked up a lot of interaction and what I feel is intent from dealing with Fable. I do feel like I'm onto something with his early behavior.

 

Maybe I am underestimating miner, but I don't think I did.
Jarizok
If you were to rank the players according to skill from #1 to #18, where would miner end up?

---------- Post automerged at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

I actually have, I just forgot that you do this.
Can you do me a favor and do without further research, fill out this:

I think Fable is scum because he did a)____, b)____ and c)____.
a)____ is scummy because ____.
b)____ is scummy because ____.
c)____ is scummy because ____.

 

@Acionix I don't know how experienced a player blab is. If he's no veteran, seeing more experienced players answering the question no questions asked, it makes to go with the flow. Ig he's an experienced players who firmly believes answering the question is -EV for town, then obviously that's scummy.

blab Fun fact, I actually did rank the players on skill last game in my QT. Miner didn't make the top 10, but that doesn't mean he's not capable as a player. I think the game's played at a fairly high level allround here, and Miner's plenty capable of faking tone and towny thoughts in as far as he's done so (although obviously I don't think he's done it well enough, so maybe I just think I'm the only one awesome enough to read Miner correctly? I really hope I don't think that).

---------- Post automerged at 23:42 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

Whoops, misspelled yer tag there Acio. Let's hope you won't refuse to reD it because of that.

---------- Post automerged at 23:46 ---------- Previous post was at 23:42 ----------

Also, damn phone is stealing entire words from me. Please everyone pick whatever words you feel like when there's something missing.

 

As nice as that is, I'd rather you read what I posted and see if you agree with my points or not and if so why instead auto town-leaning me just because of the effort.

Will do.
I think Fable is scum because he did a)Came into the game intending to vote Stanari, tried to play it off as RVS, failed b)Trying to avoid anyone looking at his early voting pattern and shaking off votes placed onto him and c)Not attempting to solve the game.

I'm assuming you also want a summary of why the above against Fable is scummy? Or did you want the list of players I also think are scum with him?

a) Non-RVS against Stanari is scummy because Fable admits that he voted Stanari without waiting to see what, if anything she had to say. Ergo its not a random vote, he was serious from the onset, and he was trying to either make a play for her that backfired(since he never gave an inclination that this was a reaction test or follow through on it), or he was trying to put some mild pressure on a partner and it went wrong.
b) Avoiding scrutiny over his early voting/shaking votes on him is scummy because it brings more attention to the fact that his opening vote was not random and he no reason for it other than to get a wagon started early. He also became unreasonably defensive when I voted him, and as his responses to dC proved, he shouldn't care about one or two votes on him this early.
c)Not attempting to solve the game is scummy because its not doing anything. He's not asking questions, he's not trying to scumhunt, he's looking for opportunities to push an narrative(see Me, My Wall, and I, then later pienyan) that fits his narrative.