Blub - I've read two of Cobalts scum games (And read them in the last ~2 weeks) being Rock Ridge Mafia which Waco hosted and another one where he made it F3 but I can't remember the game name of that one at the moment. That emotional 'fite me' type posts is just something I know to be part of his town game.

Jarizok - You're going to need to explain the disconnect between your Adult scum read and your scum read on myself; you're scum reading Adult for having wanted you to tunnel Vaimes and scum reading me for explaining why I don't want that to happen. Your scum read on Cobalts town read on myself also completely ignores context and meta as well as several explanations that have already been brought forward for this. How does my Post #669 and Post #672 impact your read on myself? Also if you're not finishing up your wall re; reasoning behind your reads I'd love you to at least elaborate on the Waco placement.

Zenzao - I finally got through your huge wall on Fable and kind of wish it was less narratery. I think a lot of your concerns and hung ups on Fable are playstyle played and not alignment one, I've spoilered some of his quotes from WH8 last game where he was town if you want to take a look but he's someone that very much doesn't 'go hard' re; scum reads in the early stages of D1. I really make nothing from his Stanari vote and think you're reading far too much into it and find Blab's thoughts on the meta of Fable/Stanari to where I'm at with it. I also take zero issue with how long his vote remained on Fontisian. The only point of yours I can sort of agree with is that some of his smaller interactions with players feel weakish? and the reasoning/depth of some of his reads don't feel there but that's a pretty small concern for this early in the game with him and I have him closer to null/town overall given I don't mind Jan's reasoning for town reading him here.

Spoiler

About ~50 posts behind, going to try and catch up but reading this at work is hard atm.

 

Thanks Acio. I'll take a closer look at Q when I do a reread/catch up tonight.
Jan Please ping in the game if you see me play the Tales gale for too long. (I think that's allowed? I have a problem and I need help, so ....)

 

Acionyx --- Do you have anything to say about the idea that Q's D1 play has been meta townplay for Q?
fontisian --- Okay yeah fair enough, that's more or less my reasoning as well.

 

Why are you all so wordy.

 

make posts short again

 

Adult (Miner)
Acionyx
blab
Cobalt
dichotomousCreator
Fable
fontisian
Jan
Jarizok
KaiDASH
Plotless
pienyan
Quiddity
Regfan
Stanari
Vaimes
The Waco Kid
Zenzao

I'm town. I don't want to lynch blab, dC, Zenzao, or Acionyx.

I'm giving font, Jan, Stanari, and Fable a pass. I'm not at all interested in a Plotless lynch, at least until I can read up on his last game here because that is literally the easiest lynch to justify itt. I like pie, but I know next to nothing about her and I'd rather treat her with a healthy dose of skepticism instead of slotting her as town. Reg is fishy but I probably won't get him lynched just yet, so he can be an igmeoy read.

Adult (Miner)
Cobalt
Jarizok
KaiDASH
Quiddity
The Waco Kid

death to the wicked

 

You might want to recognize Adult and Cobalt as town.

 

You might want to kiss my butt.

---------- Post automerged at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

Is anyone in [Zenzao, blab, Acio, dC] mafia?

 

probably not. I'd say 1 at most, but 0 is more likely.

---------- Post automerged at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

I think the game looks kind of like this right now:

more town
Acionyx, dichotomousCreator, blab, Vaimes, Miner, Zenzao

a little town
fontisian, Jan, Fable

other people
The Waco Kid, Regfan, Quiddity, pienyan, Stanari

more scum
Cobalt, Jarizok, Plotless

lynch jarizok

 

Attempting to post from my new tablet so pardon the errors.

I disagree. The way I see it, he sees something he doesn't like, pressures withtout tunneling, asks questions to see if Plotless can prove himself, and didn't like the answers so maintains the read. Maybe it's me but especially day 1 I'm looking for more than 1 mafia player, and don't feel the need to constantly harp on the ones I'm confident on, especially one like Plotless, whose been fairly non responsive and isn't going to get out of PoE.

Where exactly am I looking for "easy" scum reads? I made my case on Pien because that's how I saw it. I don't see that as an easy read, as opposed to the reverse which is a pretty clear omgus. Yes I'm scum reading Plotless, but otoh I did lead the way on that. Ls on Vaimes too, which is about as easy of Lynch as banging my head against a concrete wall.

I don't see your point about my catch up, I have limited time and doing a post by post summary itt of every post I missed is horribly inefficient.

---------- Post automerged at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

Hmmm, hadn't realized Jarizok had been so quiet. I remember he had a post or two I like earlier, but yeah.

Pien's commentary on D.C. in #657 is actually pretty good, best post so far in my eyes. pienyan, is the acio reread/post you'be mentioned a few times coming.

 

Dunno, haven't played with him.


Stray note while it's on my mind:

Quiddity/Reg has one scum in it at most? I've /liked/ reg this game but I have basically no actual town leanings on him beyond agreeing with him a lot. I /do/ have some small concerns with the way he's reacted to me and the fact that quiddity brought one of them up makes me think it's unlikely they're paired together. But his enthusiasm wrt my early Jari/Jan felt sort of disproportionate and the "multitude of reasons" without having really given any was a thing too.

But yeah if I died right here Reg wouldn't have my endorsement though I'd still lynch quiddity long before. 652/653 does not strike me as a w/w interaction.

 

Alright, let's get through Jarizok's interactions and the responses of those around him.

Jarizok enters the game in #85 with an RVS on Miner, which he almost immediately changes to a vote on Vaimes.

#87 seems to be a joke about wagoning Vaimes that was supposed to have been a part of his previous post.

Regfan notes Jarizok's behavior in his #97 and subsequently departs RVS with a serious vote on Jarizok, to which Jarizok's #100 is just a fluff post, and he responds more sarcastically in #102 to softball Reg/Vaimes as partners.

Cobalt prods him over that in #103. He responds in #110 with more sarcasm. This bit of banter was what I was originally scum-leaning the both of them for, leading up to another instance a bit later. It does come across as a bit too on the nose.

Regfan responds well in #111 to Jarizok's previous fluff.

#113 is more filler with Cobalt.

Jari's response in #116 is just more filler rather than answering Regfan's questions.

Cobalt's #118 and Jarizok's #120 ties into their previous interaction. They're bantering, but it's mostly pointless, something that I believe they both are doing regardless of who they're talking to. This is akin to what I was expecting from Jan, to be frank, so I cannot say I'm not fine with fluff for fluff's sake, but I just don't buy it coming from the both of them.

#126 is more of the same. Jan softball's Jarizok for scum in #135.

Vaimes dings Jarizok in #223. #232 that nudge toward Fable. He finally says something meaningful to Vaimes, but I don't like that he gets defensive about it. Vaimes prods him over that in #235. Waco pops in in #236 to say hi, to which Jarizok's #237 reasserts the Vaimes/Regfan notion from earlier, mostly against Vaimes more so than Regfan.

Regfan responds in #238 and prods him over his behavior again. I'm not happy about his #246 back to Regfan. Seems he's a mixed bag. So he goes from an RVS on Miner to a serious vote on Vaimes in essentially the same post and finally explains that he feels Vaimes has been faking his townplay.

Regfan responds in #248. I agree with his points, because it is much the same as I've played regarding Fonti, and it isn't exactly fair.

Blab's #249 asking for more reads not associated with Vaimes. #250 softball +Waco, Acio, and Fable. Fable responds in #251 with what is essentially a non-answer. He doesn't attempt to expand on why Jarizok feels that way about him, he just runs with it.

Vaimes' #276 prods Jarizok's claiming his playstyle has been faking a town perspective.

At #301 Jarizok finally begins to lay out his case against Vaimes. I disagree with his complaint about Vaimes' opening post. That doesn't strike me as outside of the usual Vaimes-fluff from past games. Not sure I agree on the second point Jarizok has against Vaimes, either.

I somewhat disagree with what Cobalt says, since Vaimes as both town and scum is prone to fluff early in the game, however if Narutomafia was something to go off of, Vaimes seemed to be more reserved about his posting style and, IIRC, overfluffed when he did post. If anything I've gotten more of a serious vibe from him so far, more like BBBmafia offsite. So that's a ding against Cobalt there that Jarizok notes.

On the fence re: Reg here. Jarizok's defense of Cobalt rings to what they were fluffing over earlier in the game. I don't think I've played with Cobalt, or at least not recently, so I don't know how true Jari's analysis of town!Cobalt playing is. So it is interesting what he mentions about Cobalt further down and dings him for it.

Interesting note on Reg, fanning the flames of Vaimes/Reg. I don't agree with it as-is but it is something I'll look at when, or if, I can get to him before DayEnd.

Miner prods Jarizok for not committing fully on scum!Vaimes in #303, and Jarizok counter-prods him in #304.

Acio's #305 pokes Jarizok for a Fonti read, asks Reg, Quid, and Fable for a response to Jarizok's 250. Jarizok responds in #306 +Fonti.

Vaimes counters in #309 and prods him. #311 comes across more defensive then I'd remembered. Jarizok's #313 shines some light on Cobalt and clarifies a bit on Reg. Vaimes #314, eh.

Radio silence after that until #468 -Miner with no particular explanation.

blab's #470 includes Jarizok in the scum-lean portion of his wall. Fable's #473 prods Jarizok's placement.

#662 Jarizok returns. +Jan. I like his thought process behind Jan here. Retracts from scum-reading Vaimes though he doesn't say why here(the scumvibes thing about Reg is just... weird). Once again calls Miner scum without why.

#663 dC prods him re: Miner. Jarizok's #664 is mostly filler, likewise of dC's response in #664.

Miner prods Jarizok in #668 re: Vaimes. Fable's #671 calls out Jarizok and votes him over the Vaimes retraction. Jarizok prods back in #681 over Fable's reason for voting him. Softball +Vaimes and harder -Regfan.

Fable counters in #682. Now that I've read over Jarizok, I do agree more with Fable on the reversal re: Vaimes. I'm not happy about it, but I do agree. I'm not happy about Jarizok's #683 now either.

#686 +blab.

#688 finally gets around to a readwall.

Initial point against Miner feels like his initial problem with Vaimes. I do agree that not tunneling is best, because it does narrow your point of view down too much to pick up information that might otherwise be presented. But I still don't like his point about not reading Vaimes. That's... just lazy and I dare say a bit egotistical, and it calls back to what Regfan said a long while ago about the matter. Independently reading Vaimes regardless of how you feel your present scum-read feels about Vaimes makes more sense. This kind of ties into also his point about 'not finding scum, finding townies' toDay.

He does ask for those town-siding Miner to explain why.

Agreed on Acio, agreed on Blab being less game solving than Acio but still making the effort. On the fence re: blab's wall. He does kind of ding blab overall here.

The reversal on Cobalt is interesting given his previous defense and what I noted earlier on about their bantering. I don't really agree about Vaimes being consensus solved so soon, either. I'm also not scum-reading Regfan, so I don't agree with the point against him here.

Also on the fence re: Cobalt's post and why Jarizok is scum-reading him here too, since at this point it feels more like his case is 'if Regfan is scum then ergo Cobalt because Cobalt would only do this if Regfan...'

dC gets a free pass more or less which is just eh. Disagree on Fable, but that's that. Funnily enough he doesn't say anything about Fonti here, though he seems to have missed her by accident rather than design.

More-or-less agree on Jan. Disagree on Kai. Also disagreed on Plotless, as I believe that point about scumchat has come up in HPM about Miner and Jarizok and the consensus was IIRC that it would play out rather than coach through certain mistakes.

Hm, I do agree with pienyan's point here however on Cobalt's reaction, so I can see his reasoning on her. Still reminds me of why he was pro-Acio and I think it was Waco earlier in the game, though.

His Q read is kind of where I'm at on Quiddity insofar as his playstyle, less so the Rubicon feel to it, or the problem with +Cobalt, but shouldn't he be more toward null here?

I disagree on Regfan though I do want to read him more.

#706 he offers an organized rainbow wall. I'd like to know more behind his Stanari placement.

#710 Acio asking for more info re: blab on Miner. #711 responding, then #714 covering why. Interesting thought process here, and I do see where Jarizok's coming from on the matter, though I also think blab has generally done fine, so I'm on the fence about him re: Miner now.

Final consensus at this point: Early Cobalt/Jarizok interactions were slightly ping-y for me, Jarizok made some improvements once he started posting seriously, but I don't think I see his case against first Vaimes and then Regfan as having merit. I wouldn't necessarily lynch him today, but I do think he belongs in the upper level of my wall.

---------- Post automerged at 21:24 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

And we have a new page and several responses I need to get to, lovely. Probably going to stop here as far as going back through things, will catch up shortly.

 

I don't think so. Pretty sure on Acio and dc, will let you know tonight on Zen and blab.

---------- Post automerged at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

But why not plotless?

 

Really liked Blab attempting to get Zenzao to rephrase his reads and thoughts in a more clear fashion in Post #718, given I also found Zenzao's huge wall not as clear as I'd have liked re; his overall reasoning.

Continue to really like DC's posts.

Not really a fan of Jarizok's recent posting, I know that based around a conversation in the G6 chat he knows that people think he often has "reads against the grain almost for the sake of it" and I almost feel like he's doing that but overboard here to attempt to match that meta assumption of his play. Like his reasoning behind his Miner scum read, his reasoning on Cobalt and myself..don't feel really thought through anywhere near enough. Think I need to go over him again tonight and really want him to answer the questions I'd laid out for him above.

Also really like Fontisians reasoning for her scum read on Plotiness, the "frozeness" is a large part behind my read there and I like the comparison to American Gods given I did take a skim of their ISO there and they felt much more relaxed in that game in comparison to here.

Vaimes, think there's 0 scum in those 4 names.

 

yeah acio, I agree with that.

I want to add that I think regfan is more likely scum if quiddity is town. I didn't get the impression regfan was actually adjusting anything when the 3 of us were posting at the same time yesterday (posts ~640 onwards)

 

This is a really good post from DC.

also wow holy shit Fable got mad

 

I don't think my vote does much there right now.

 

God I forgot Zenzao does walls like that. Damn man summarize!

#714 probably make Mari/ blab unaligned I think

---------- Post automerged at 09:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

I see what your talking about, but I don't see it as a big of deal as you yet. Still trying to get my bearings on Fable my lack of experience with him.

That said, your case work on Fable, and i thought I saw one on Jarizok(?) later itt, continues to leave me feeling good on you as town.

---------- Post automerged at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

That should say Jari/blab**

---------- Post automerged at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

In light on pien's #657

unvote

Votelotless

 

The Waco Kid --- Can you elaborate on why #714 makes Jari/Blab unaligned? It's responding to Acio asking a question which explains the impetus to post it, and I don't see it as particularly unfakeable.

I will have thoughts on Regfan tomorrow, although I still have him as townsided for now.

 

For the most part in there, with some other notes from later on, especially about his problems with dC and RVS.

I will freely admit however that I do get wrapped up in tunneling when I think I've got a point against someone. It happened with Mathblade a few games ago, and it happened in MM between owner, Fonti, then Waco and Rubicon. That's why I wanted to step back from responding to Fable any more last time before it got out of hand, and I suppose I did not begin my read on him from an unbiased point of view. I do still stand by my point about him being obstinate on my wall/gambit and pushing an agenda afterward, leading up to when I voted him.

Alright, when coupled with the quotes Regfan provided, I can see what y'all are saying. It still strikes me as incredibly weird that he would vote the way that he has and not commit to a serious vote if he's going to scum-read someone so hard, but that's apparently NAI in his case.

I'm not going to apologize at this junction for seeing scummy behavior in your play style. I haven't met anyone else who plays the same way you have and that would expect to get a pass for it. Who do you have as scum outside of pienyan and myself?