RWBY Mafia Votal 2.2.

Waco [2]: DC, DC.
Jari [1]: Cobalt.
Reg [1]: Kai.
Cobalt [1]: Vaimes.
Pienyan [1]: Reg.

Not Voting [11]: Acio, Blab, Fable, Font, Jari, Miner, Pienyan, Quiddity, Stanari, Waco, Zenzao.

With 17 votes alive, it will be 9 votes to soft lynch and 13 votes to hard lynch.

 

The simple answer is that not only have I had practically no time or energy recently (I haven't even really had time to detail read the game usually until very late at night), but I forgot how terrible I am in blitz-deadline style games and playing this game especially under these time conditions without any chance to really detail read anything has just overwhelmed me (and for the love of god, you should remember this; think back to i.e. the wedding game on MS a year and a half ago, which actually is the last blitz-deadline game I played because I avoided them for exactly this reason ever since that game happened). Like just as one example of this re: Waco, even though I think he is more likely scum I simply have not been able to keep up enough and detail read enough to have any confidence to follow my read there entirely based on intuition (I remember specifically thinking overnight "I seriously hope whatever he does at the start of D2 actually makes sense as scum because if not I will be completely lost"); I want to actually read him and make sure I'm not missing anything about his posts first, and again you should seriously be aware of the fact (both based on seeing me play and our Skype convos) that I don't seriously push just hip-fire reads and I can't seriously read people quickly, I like to be thorough and make sure what I'm doing is actually correct. And the one time I did have a good block of time to sit down with the game I largely spent it on DC and I simply haven't had any more time to actually do serious stuff since then.

If you need me to "step up", then I'm sorry. I don't know if you'll be able to get that from me. I can say though that you don't have a high-level enough view of my scum play if you think my scum game in this scenario would end up like this. The reason I'm like this is because I'm simply just paralyzed; but as scum hell no I wouldn't have any issue throwing reads out there and staying "on top of" the game because I don't need to consider how to find time to put work into the game to *actually* accomplish anything and I don't need to pause and worry about how good/bad my reads actually are. You should know that I rely a lot on tailoring my appearance as scum, and in a new player list with a bunch of people who don't know me, that means playing a very textbook town game as scum - I take care of what I need to do re: my appearance first and *then* let town eat themselves alive, I don't just coast and hide and hope that no one shows up and scum reads me.

Regardless of outcome I don't really intend to sign up for a blitz game again after this.

Ironically, one reason I was paranoid of you at that point in the game was... because of how you just snap-town read me immediately after my DC wall and didn't think through the rest of my play very much...

---------- Post automerged at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

Like shit if you actually go back and read the thing about DC again, you can even see me saying something along the lines of "Waco comes next" and then I just didn't have a chance to get around it (not that night and pretty much all of my posts after that weren't serious analysis, they were me just dropping in and saying things I had picked up on without detail reading anything).

I am free today and I do intend to spend most of it firming up all of those reads I'm kind of just stuck with, but I need you to promise me you'll *actually* attempt to understand my play; if you treat me how you did in FF that will just lead to me shutting down and you most likely settling on a misread of me and lynching me (and I wouldn't even call it your fault, really, I'm just terrible in those sorts of situations).

 

Is this a blitz game?

---------- Post automerged at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

Some people have complained 72 hours is too much, heh.

Still kinda think pie is town.

 

Er sorry, I'm used to calling anything 96 hours or less "blitz" deadlines; what I'm used to (standard on MS) is two weeks.

 

Plus I think if pie /was/ gonna try and coast, she'd have shot the one person who'd call her out on it.

Yeah.

---------- Post automerged at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:23 ----------

Haven't played a game on MS in ages.

If you're in one sometime soon, shoot me a message.

 

For the record, the MS blitz game I referenced in that post was also 96 hours and my play there turned out pretty much to be coming from the same mindset as my play here (hence why I brought it up to Reg in the post)

And yeah, I'd have at least argued for a Reg kill and I am glad that you brought that up instead of me having to do it and probably looking like an idiot for bringing it up.

 

I like what I see from Reg about Pien/Waco. I'm working for at least the next 10 hours but if I get the chance later I'll elaborate my Pien read.

 

Reads post /probably/ T-minus 6 hours, but there might be a delay depending on whether or not my boss makes me work overtime or not.

Definitely going to get it out before Saturday though.

 

I'm getting stuff done now. I'm just going to focus on this for a while, so don't expect me to vote or try to actively push the game one way or the other until I'm through catching up.

Reading through Waco's posts again and while I still think the early game attack on me is really nitpicky and bad, what stands out the absolute most here is his treatment of Plot and Jari throughout the entire D1. I'm going to start with Plot and go through his posts from the top so you all can get an idea of what I'm saying here.

He starts in #236 with a really soft poke on him, and then says "it's pretty self-explanatory" in #243. After that in #543 he backs it up with this.

I think the reasoning here is, again, pretty nitpicky; namely the last part of the second paragraph. That simply isn't a thought process that's indicative of town; it is a thought process indicative of scum looking for a way to twist a point around to make their target look bad. A more natural town thought process if he was curious about Plot's other reads might have been, for instance, directly asking Plot what other reads they held and why and *then* evaluating. Instead we get his #243 where he just wrote it off, and then from there in 300 posts of game he apparently didn't find anything in Plot's posts worthy of a comment in his catchup (Plot's original reads post he criticized was #222, and he provided other reads such as #422 in the interim), so I can only conclude he didn't ask because he didn't want to. It's an attack designed to make Plot look bad, not any actual attempt to sort.

After that........ that's it. There's no direct interaction at all and he never does anything at all to refine the read or even make an actual push on Plot despite Plot and Jari being the two main foci of the day and a lot of shit going down around those two since #543.

What we did see, on the other hand, was a lot of affirming other's scum reads on Plot and encouraging discussion about scum reads on Plot. He town reads Q for similarities in reads (me/Plot) and encourages Reg to expand more on his Plot read. He just coasted on it as if it was some foregone conclusion that Plot was scum. This is scum behavior when you want to push a lynch from the sidelines without wanting to involve yourself directly in it.

I want to segue a bit, btw, and talk real quick about his comment to me in #543- if you look at it you can see another instance of this sort of forced language designed more to make his target look bad, namely "Interesting responds to pressure with a bad OMGUS." - the intent here is that even though my push on him was based more on his reasoning and not on the sheer fact that he posted me, he tries to spin it as a bad "OMGUS" to make it look worse - calling it OMGUS paints more of a picture of someone just lashing back at you because you dared push them and not for any logical reason, rather than addressing the points (his response to me was more of a deflection than actually addressing what I wrote).

Next onto Jari. He says again in #543 "I like this post from Jarizok. The reads are ok-ish, but more importantly, it just feels genuine. The progression and train of thought makes sense while simultaneously containing the seed of paranoia you expect from town.", and then after that, literally the only thing he even said about Jari at all was " Hmmm, hadn't realized Jarizok had been so quiet. I remember he had a post or two I like earlier, but yeah." in #750. That's it. This isn't even a concrete stance or anything where you can identify a concrete reason backing it. He is just coasting along and not even attempting to get any firm read at all despite these being really relevant reads to have, and I don't really think one post that "just feels genuine" is cause to have just fully wrote Jari off like that. He is not attempting to read these people because he doesn't need to.

I say this fully aware that I was unable to form any read on Jari throughout the entire D1. Thing is in my case it was largely because none of his posts intuitively pinged me, and I simply didn't have the time to sit down and really deconstruct his posts to get a proper read; this is just someone who clearly had some idea of how to read him, apparently had one post he thought was genuine and then just wasn't even bothering to think about it after that.

Move onto D2 and his opener is mostly just bad because it's nothing but an empty filler post. But that's tangential to his treatment of Plot/Jari D1.

Apart from that, I generally just feel that what Waco's scum reads have amounted to this game - his Plot read which he didn't get involved in and his read on me which he didn't think about at all after I made #657 and stopped being a consensus scum read - fit the pattern of scum who is mostly just attempting to go for the lowest-hanging fruit.

 

I used actual townread because I just had iso'd pienyan and felt she was town rather than just sticking her in the “she can be town if she doesn't ping me” folder.
I liked her response to your scumread and elsewhere was tonally just rather town in a constructive? way.
Posts that I gave her +town for:
The one where she was rather stream of consciousness re Fable/Zenzao. Comes more likely from town.
She put dC and Acio in her scum-pool, also think that's more likely to come from town.


You're skilled, I haven't seen your scumgame, your scumgame described as good and “townsiding”. I'm just more suspicious of my feelings/ability to read you than say, Vaimes, Zenzao or even fontisian. And I mentioned something like that for you and not anyone else because I'm not in a situation like that for anyone else.

 

Reading through Jari's posts. I... think the early-game questioning of Vaimes/Reg looks pretty town on reread (#102~#301); it's a very much out-there angle, and I don't think scum trying to find a way to enter the thread would not only use such a controversial angle but then double down on it after being mostly scum read for it.

My issue with it, however, is the way he went about the backoff of Vaimes. Starting from #301, he claims that he thinks he's tunneling and then kinda steps around it until he makes it explicit in #662 and #681. I don't really see what the goal here actually was; he never explicitly stated a reason for Vaimes being town and I don't get the impression he was swayed by anything concrete here. I think that a lot of what he wrote about "I'm tunneling", "I'm really trying to reset", "I don't like being lolJarizok" etc. feels like a bit of an act; I get the impression that he's like, trying to find some way of forcing a backoff of Vaimes after getting negative attention from it and struggling to make it sound natural here.

#688 I have conflicted thoughts on. I dislike the Miner read, most particularly it feels very half-thought. The stuff about Miner's name change doesn't seem relevant at all, and the bit about tunneling because "scum want the focus to be narrow early" feels like a huge overgeneralization. The read on Cobalt I don't like since the majority of it seems to just come from the read he's developed on Reg, which I think is a bit easier of a read to make as scum than town. The Reg read on the other hand rings very true to me, actually (and tbh I don't even think what he wrote here/in #861 is all that wrong; he's mostly right when he says that scum Reg does a lot more just stating things as fact that he really shouldn't, I just don't think he's applying that tell correctly here since it's usually done as a mechanism to force things through in a way such that no one realize he hasn't *actually* backed up what he's saying well enough).

From here, I don't know? The three major scum reads he's given (Miner, Cobalt, Reg) were people who at this point were all majorly town read, but if you continue through his posts he was active in the thread, but he doesn't really actually engage *with* the town reads other people are writing about any of them, i.e. I know people widely talked about Cobalt being town via meta and I know me and a few other people posted reasoning for Miner being town. There are a few isolated comments here and there, i.e. he asked me in his reads wall to think about one of Regfan's posts a bit more to see if I could see what was off about it, but not any serious sort of effort where he really sits down and helps try to take the town reads on them apart.
Jarizok; can we talk about Reg a bit. I don't really think that his push on me today comes from him as scum, he's very much a sort of "push easy targets" player and if he's scum I think it makes a lot more sense that he'd continue to buddy up to me (as with D1) and have me killed off early rather than entering the rabbit hole of trying to lynch me (I'm the type of player who's capable of bleeding town all over the thread when I'm engaged and he's even demonstrated his awareness of this in the thread already); if you disagree I'd like you to walk me through your thought process here. I'd also like you to walk me through your Cobalt read a bit more, in particular your opinion of all the meta reads pointing to him being town from D1.

---------- Post automerged at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

I'm moving Fable up to strong town, his posts this game day have been very solid.

Same with Acio thanks to the gun-inventor stuff.

I'm doing a quick run-through of Cobalt and while I don't town read his latest posts, I don't really see the problem with them? Vaimes; I'd like if you could walk me through what I'm missing here.

 

I know I've brought up my issues with Cobalt several times.

---------- Post automerged at 18:49 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

Regfan
---
Adult (Miner)
Jarizok
KaiDASH
Quiddity
Stanari
The Waco Kid
Cobalt

I think the entire scumteam is in this group. Regfan is kind of towny, just adding his name to feed my paranoia and to mess with him.

Seven names, four or five mafia. And we get two lynches toDay.



---------- Post automerged at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Now I, too, know the pain of a frozen gif.

The smile is good enough.

---------- Post automerged at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------
pienyan

Is Reg someone to push on a wagon he knows isn't happening as scum to look busy? I refuse to believe his scumplay is as one-dimensional as only pursuing LHF.

 

You are sure fonti is town?

 

>sure
>in a game of mafia

I wouldn't lynch her anytime soon.

 

pienyan --- Why no vote put down on Waco after those posts? It sounds like you're pretty comfortable saying he's scum coasting through D1 (i.e. "Jari is town, Plotless lynch started by town" universe)

Would also like to add that I'm paranoid of Regfan too because I kinda felt like he was pocketing me D1. (This is paranoia and I'm townreading him still, but everyone else seems to be saying it so :v)

 

Er sorry, let me clarify.

Can you talk a bit more about this point? I.e. is this meta-based or just a general read, which posts came off as forced. I generally am having trouble parsing his posts just due to his general posting style, and I don't want a repeat of game-start. ._.

I think that if Reg wanted to push a wagon just for the sake of looking busy, he wouldn't pick me to do it with. Namely because put simply, he knows that I know his play, he knows that I'm the person in the game with the most credibility reading him and I severely doubt he has enough confidence in his scum game to write a fake push on me and believe that it'll come out OK. I don't think it's so much "he'd never do this", just that he's a very pragmatic scum player and the risk/reward for that isn't something he'd take, especially when he was already going fine with a town read on me and I at least wasn't noticing anything off about his play; pushing most other people for the sake of having a push to look busy absolutely would fall in his scum-range, though.
dichotomousCreator; I'm still trying to get my bearings a bit. It's very likely Waco will be where I'll end up voting once I'm up to speed.

 

It's a meta read, so it probably wouldn't do much for you.

Eh.

I'm in the air about what to do with my vote right now. They're all gonna get reset after the Daykill anyway.

 

I see your pocketing attempts and look upon them with suspicion.

This is kind of a :S post. Anyway.

fonti: her interactions with me feel kind of weird. I think I picked up something of a more negative slant from dC's post but I'm not sure how much of that is confbias.
Quiddity: in the pile of people who are drowning me in Logic and Analysis and other such Reasonable Mafia Things which I cannot read.

I cannot recall any reason to call them any kind of alignment pairing.

I had the vague intuition it might be related to Cobalt white-knighting my sorry behind (or a similar behind-the-scenes interaction), but that seems a little egocentric.

Elaborate?

Hmm.

Well, obviously being off a town wagon is worth some small amount of towncred, but Cobalt paranoia is seriously starting to kick in right now. (That's not related to the flip though.)

I don't go for vig shots on people I think will be major presences unless I have an earthshaking conviction. The top three on this list were exempted from this because it was oriented towards associatives, but a low-credence scumread on fonti doesn't warrant a shot. There may also have been an associative-related reason, but I don't remember it if it existed.

 

Stanari

Why is Cobalt white-knighting you and what alignment is he more likely to do it as, iyo?

Please avoid any and all variations of "I don't know."

 

I'm moving Miner out of my town pile for the time being. I think he has a few posts that individually make good points, but on a body-of-work basis I don't think he's really been *doing* much, his play feels really passive, and Stan/Jari are two of the easier scum reads to have. Now that I look at it I also actually kinda see where Jari is coming from when he says a lot of his reads are hedge-y; the read on Plot at the end of #668 in particular stands out, especially combined with the read on Jari.

The Jan kill also has me a bit paranoid when Miner was one of their pocket scum reads that they were drawing attention to near day-end.