I kinda wanted to say I thought his effort looked kinda town (near the end of the day at the point when it was a toss-up, I didn't get the impression his belief in his pushes was starting to waver at all) but I wasn't sure whether scum-him was the type to shut down or continue to fight under pressure, so I didn't say anything.

Also I don't really see anything hard to fake in Miner's reads list. Can you explain to me what I'm missing? (@Vaimes too)

 

Offhand: regfan is suspect if Jarizok is town; and Miner if he's scum.

 

I liked the depth behind his Cobalt read here and his prodding of Fontisian to confirm it, Zenzao & Q reads aren't bad too. Wasn't enough to remove him from the pile of names still to properly sort of mine but enough to go from "Hmm maybe I'm wrong on him" to "Eh, I feel okayish with him probably? being town at the moment".

Spoiler

If you stated it the other way around I might believe these to be legitimate reads but the way you've put them is just ??????????? I have Jarizok/Miner as very hard not W/W and would argue I make more sense as mafia if Jarizok is mafia given I'm advocating for him not to be shot at the moment.

 

That's the surface level read of the situation sure.

I'm looking underneath the underneath, as they say.

 

Regfan; First off, about Vaimes, I'm going to preface this by saying that saying it's "completely without meta" is actually false, I thought I remembered us having a convo a while back about Vaimes' playstyle and the fact he's transparently town when he's town, and the general assessment of everyone in the game has seemed to back that up so I assume I'm not wrong about it. In either case he's been really open about his reads and thought processes and on a body-of-work level he's done a lot of stuff that rings very true to me. Going from his most recent posts: I thought his questioning of Stanari in #1119~#1136 was pretty solid, and I like that he isn't bothering with the whole "awkward posts omg" thing and instead going straight for motivation (it's a lot easier for scum to just pull up posts and call them awkward and call it a day rather than actually try to sort through the awkwardness to see what someone is really getting at). I liked that when he was faced with you (the person with experience with me) coming in and starting to push your case on me, he actually read it and read my response to it, formed his own opinion of it and stuck with his read instead of leaving the option open to jump to me if the momentum allowed for it, which very easily could have been the case since this was back when the only thing I did afterward was the response to you/before I started actually putting effort into firming up my reads; and tbh I've liked the treatment of me on a gut level since the start of the game, it's a very genuine "I just ~feel~ this person" type of town read. I liked the direct questioning to you in #962~#1015; reads like he's trying to poke around and explore that paranoia of you a bit by testing your reaction around his most relevant scum read (Cobalt). I can keep going if you want, but I think it is safe to stop here; there aren't any posts of his that make me lean in the other direction on him, either.

Q I've already talked about a bit, but I'll rehash it here. I don't really like the way he approached either Plot or me D1. It looked very directed, and like he was attempting to maintain an appearance of being reasonable and considering possibilities, but in reality just continuing to make up reasons to scum read or "be suspicious of" us as he was going along without any intent of reevaluating. I'll write about his read on me first. Early game he questioned my opening and kinda poked around me a bit, which I'm fine with, but it doesn't lead anywhere until he gets to #633; I brought this post up at one point before, but this is a really wishy-washy stance that feels more like it's designed to leave open the option to push me if it'd be viable, and given that he didn't seem to have any issue directly addressing me in his previous posts, I don't really like the fact that he seems to just be content with this and leaving it at that. After that I made my #657 about DC, people widely started to town read me and his read on me appears to enter some weird state where he still dislikes my play (see: #985), but isn't really talking about it at all or attempting to address the main points of concern that people brought up looked town about me? And he hasn't brought it up again this game day (tbf he only had one content post and that was a phone post answering a direct question to him, so this is subject to change based on what he does when he shows up).

Either way I don't really know what happened and I don't know that I like the lack of any serious follow-up surrounding me at any point in the game. The read on Plot D1 was similar, I generally just got the impression it was coming from a POV of having identified Plot as an easy target to poke and making up the reasons as he was going along. He starts by asking Plot a really softball question ("Are you rusty or inexperienced?"), and then leads into #329. In general, again, I feel this is more a manufactured progression than a natural one; rather than just directly asking Plot what's going on and going based on that, he plays coy around it and it simply just feels more like laying the groundwork for an easy target to take advantage of when he needs to. FF to #646 and it's the same sort of thing; it's hard to put into words but the reasoning here feels really nitpicky and like it was coming from an end goal of trying to twist whatever Plot's response was into a new point against them rather than taking it in and actually analyzing it.

I'm aware he came in near the end saying the Plot wagon was "too easy", but I don't really care. IIRC, he only really started taking that stance after the Plot wagon was very well-established as a wagon du jour of the day.

I'm not really sure about any of this analysis because it may just amount to him being a player who doesn't bother to seriously follow through on his lines of questioning most of the time. And even though a lot of the reasoning he's provided for his scum reads is not great (re Plot in particular, but I'm also kinda seeing him take this approach with Stanari this game day, he's just wrote her off as "awkward" and that's all there is to it), there's nothing that I look at and seriously think "OK this simply isn't town", just a lot of "ehh?".

Zenzao I, uh. Honestly just won't have a read on until either he enters the day, or I actually go back and look through all of those walls he wrote (cross-referencing these post-by-post style walls is hell). I still think his reaction to Fable way back when looked like a town player indignant at Fable pushing him for what he perceived as nonsensical reasons, but that's about it.

fonti I don't really have anything.

 

Right now it is very tempting to tell Vaimes to shoot my sorry face already but I won't because I'm actually a responsible townie on rare occasions and I believe! that! I can! contribute! to this! game!

Although frankly if you're waiting for a wallpost of careful analysis you might as well shoot me now and save me some work

---------- Post automerged at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

By the end of this game I will either be really bitter or....really bitter, realistically, but we'll say "somewhat enriched for the full experience of a logic-oriented meta".

 

Dipping in from pienyan stuff to say 431/433 probably doesn't happen with w/w waco pffft.

 

Eeehhhhh.

It's really hard for me to comment on this. I kinda see what you mean, in that his Cobalt and Zen reads *do* look genuine, but in this case I'm not actually sure that it being genuine is town indicative . . .

In particular I've kinda just had the impression since near the start of the game scum are correctly town reading Cobalt because it's simply the easier read to make on someone who's transparently different between alignments. So I'm kinda hesitant about it.

 

D2 ends in 1 Day and 21 hours

 

I'm going to finish yelling at blab when I'm not too tilted to scumread posts without using the word hate

Good night.

 

wait, that's not right

brand-new unnamed 8 week old English Shepard puppy is warping my sense of time

have a picture to compensate for the inconvenience:

http://i.imgur.com/vzU2yZi.jpg

D2 ends in ~1 day and 21 hours

REAL TIMER

 

Wait, wtf? It gets even faster???

My head is spinning.

---------- Post automerged at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

Oh.

Never mind I guess, that's not as bad (even though I still was not expecting that)

---------- Post automerged at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

I feel like a dumbass, it's even in the rules.

Ignore me, I've spent too much time today just staring at this game.

 

Okay, we need to start sorting out the shot now. I'm favouring Waco (the note of non-alignment with pie is a point for, since Waco flipping scum and exonerating pie would be a good result). Jarizok is an option (I am pretty suspicious of the way no-one is seriously trying to wagon him, although almost no votes have been cast today so...). I'm pretty meh on shooting Stanari, but I can see why it might happen anyway.

Shooting font or kai is probably a waste. Shooting Q is an option, although less attractive than Jari/Waco in my opinion.

 

I assumed Vaimes would be shooting Jarizok today as the default action.

lynch jarizok

 

That might still happen, but I don't see any real reason to just let the assumed action go through with no discussion.

 

dichotomousCreator I voted Plotless with no commentary in 891 because I'd assured Jan I would if there was no traction on Kai, and there wasn't.

 

Ran through pienyan I don't dislike them as scum? The main thing that hit me was the reaction to reg voting them post wall felt off; too heavy into assuming him town and too immediately defeatist and 426 makes me think of the thing they mentioned earlier about finding new reasons to townread people as scum.

The limited progression thing is there too but it's screwing with me because I feel it with waco too and I can see where wondering if it's a w/w ploy comes from but at the same time missing that VLA thing from waco is /dumb/ as scum. Using it to spice up a ploy to sit tread water for a day doesn't feel probable.

 

Vaimes, why do you think fonti is town?

I don't like the composition of this list:

Ignoring the fact that I townread almost half of it, it seems very content-based. The only one writing decent amounts there is Jarizok.

That makes it feel lazy, especially during a push on pie.

 

Okay I'm just gonna be completely honest with y'all

This whole two jobs thing is wearing me so thin. I'm fine to participate, but I'm glad that we have long days because I worked 16 hours between both jobs today and I have to do the same thing tomorrow. Right now I just got home and I have barely time to eat and sleep before I do it all over again. So tomorrow night into saturday is when you'll see a lot from me, I cross my heart promise.

I'm literally working so much I'm gonna drop dead. Thanks for being patient with me and I'll try to pop in tomorrow night to get some reads out. Peace y'all.

 

Really not understanding the Waco callouts, especially the Waco callouts vis a vis Plotless.

@Thread generally, but specifically Fable

Who gave a better case for Plotless then Waco?