Yet you're shitting on a meta based read on him, so maybe look at that game? Please?

---------- Post automerged at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 PM ----------

Oh cool, I can read.

 

I'll have more in a few mins, but the first thing I want to say is Vaimes; I'll kiss you if you shoot Waco. TIA.

 

I know your read on me isn't meta based. I'm confronting a way my meta is being discussed that I think is poor/misleading, and allowing you to draw your own conclusions.

---------- Post automerged at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

There's a difference between "not towny" and "a baseline for how scum...are likely to act".

But okay.

---------- Post automerged at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------
Regfan, this is part of what I was thinking about.

I care about looking good as scum, so the reverse is true.

Also, rude @bolded.

 

@Fonti - Finished skimming Q's ISO inside MM and I'm still not seeing your meta read here, I'd argue that his play this game is similar to absolutely none of the games I've read of his so far (TH7, SVM, RR, MM) and therefore don't really think relying on a meta read on him here is the play, especially when it feels so difficult to find scum inside this game. I feel like inside MM he was notably paranoid over certain reads (in particular; you) and that his reads for the most part still flowed pretty naturally, I'd argue I don't really see that in this game. The only real similarity I can find is his attitude re; getting votes together for a lynch to go through but that's rather weak and pretty easily fakeable. Given this is your read perhaps enlighten me on what I'm missing?

Also lets play a game;
Waco gets shot and flips mafia; What's your gun-to-head scum team?
Waco gets shot and flips town; What's your gun-to-head scum team?

---------- Post automerged at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Fine with you taking a little bit of time (a few hours if need be) to answer those two questions because if you haven't yet I really want you to start thinking about some team/world building here because I don't see any sort of that in your posts so far and I find a few uh, contradictory? type of stances from you that I think this will clear up.

---------- Post automerged at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

Not actually sure if Waco's coming back, he's not posted in ~48 hours now.

 

Miner; Waco is scum because in short, his play D1 is scum coasting. This is true in general, but you can notice it most easily if you just look at his behavior surrounding the Jari/Plot wagons. He made like one or two comments about Plot early in the day, pulled up one post from Jari and called it "genuine", and then just dropped off and didn't directly engage with any of the discussion surrounding them whatsoever; instead he sat on the sidelines and did a lot of subtle reaffirming other's scum reads on Plot. The reasoning for scum reading Plot was nitpicky, and he didn't pay attention to Jari at all after apparently just completely writing him off thanks to one isolated post that ~felt genuine~. It simply isn't a genuine effort to sort or read either of them, at all.

I explained it in more detail in #1109 if you want, but the above is the short version of it. I'd like to see you address it because tbh *if* Waco is scum, you acting oblivious to all of the reasoning posted for him being scum is not a good look at all.

fontisian; Can we talk a little bit about your "one of pie/Reg" read? I'd like if you could explain to me 1. why I'm in there to begin with - is it more an issue of you trusting his ability to read me, or if it's your read specifics; and 2. more detail about why you think Reg would push me as scum, since I had the opposite opinion of it.

Quiddity;

Answer. This. Otherwise I'm going to lynch you and if you're town and deliberately being cagey about your read on me, I will not have any second thoughts about it.

 

Yeah I've noticed this, but I'm kind of torn on letting him not get shot as a result. Like, if he IS scum then a free lurking pass is really bad :/

 

I hope you realize I literally had time to catch up and post _just now_.

I don't really appreciate you pushing this on me despite the fact I am pretty much staying engaged to the level I'm able to stay engaged.

 

dc I replied about this in literally the next post and you responded back, so you forgetting about this is ???.

 

I think I kinda like fonti's posts recently; what she said about Jari and Zen in particular.

I also think the way she's talking about her Q read is OK? (even if I have no ability to understand it and comment about her conclusion), since I likely wouldn't foresee myself looking into it even if we're in a world where Q is scum. This is not so much me actively town reading her for it as a reminder to myself for later if Q does turn out to be scum.

 

I kind of want to post my reaction to Typhons wall from SVM here. Because...I hate resorting to meta, but this is just emblematic of why I'm always on the block as town and never as mafia.

Because as mafia, everything is about my progression. If you read the QT with Miner and Math, there's moments where I apologize to Miner for going after him, but say I couldn't not because of where the thread was and how my reads had been going. This is why I look good as scum: because that's what I care about, and you see a coherent performance where everything fits in with that, and my team actively loses games because I put that above strategic needs.

Whereas as town, I don't know anything, and I'm focused on a ton of differing priorities because I don't have a voice saying, deep down, that my strategic focus can just be about looking good, and that is a boon for my team.

You can't see my progression on Vaimes, because there isn't any. I don't know what to think about him!

I'm reading this game, and I know Von. In my experience, Von is self-clearing by fluff and by playstyle, and so this is what I look for. But I'm not seeing it. Somehow, this has clicked for a bunch of people but it just really hasn't for me. I'm not feeling fluff from him in that way that I have, and I'm seeing this townbloc forming there, and getting paranoid.

And I'm struggling to express or identify what it is that is giving me this. That Von post I quoted, I could identify problems, but I'm really not sure if I was casting shade or making a case, because I don't get it.


With Pie, it's competing signals. He's in and he's out, he's hot and he's cold.


I've explained Kai.


In short, I'm a swirling mix of neuroses and paranoia. This is where the pls-no-Plotless comes from. I don't know what's going on, I don't have a grand unified scum theory, I just have my instincts and my instincts tell me Plotless is wrong.

Whereas as scum...I'm collected. I follow my 'instincts', but everything is carefully cast in reference to what comes before, but with no regard to what underlies it. This is why I don't even notice I've only made a case attacking dLGN, a scumbuddy, in the entire game until it's pointed out to me: as scum I play as this calm, collected, uber-town version of myself.

 

Uh.

Post #1140:

Post #1141:

You then post a bunch on the page with post #1141 and don't comment on this, and you're voting for Regfan at the time.

What are you talking about?

 

oh, I had a different post of yours in mind.

#1173 / 1174

 

Ah, I see. That explains it; it's the same vote Regfan pointed out earlier.

 

A Stanari content post? Are pigs flying?

People ignore things for all kinds of reasons, it's hard to pinpoint a specific scum motive for what she's doing (that's why my primary reaction is more WTF than "you're scum). She took a few swipes at me and is now? sort of? ignoring me? I guess? I'm pretty sure we haven't had an interaction that wasn't onesided, as a matter of fact. (If you even want to call those interactions.) She is apparently trying to sort me (last I checked) but...hasn't talked to me at all? I mean I know some people can do that but that's just...really weird to me. (I know I'm guilty of the same sin here lol.)

I'll give you the top half of my readlist I suppose. None of these are high-confidence (what is this confidence you speak of) but there's some variation in how unsure I am. Have some numbers more for my benefit than yours - 0% is "basically a coin toss" and 100% is conftown. My reads rarely get above 90% sure; currently have dC and Vaimes at like 80%-ish.

Zenzao - this read's a little dated but I don't remember him doing much. Admittedly still an instinct sort of read. If the game ended right now and I had to pick town, I would pick him and feel relatively okay about it. 70% sure?
Pie - this read is also really dated. I don't follow the case for her being scum and that's something I would like to do (this is true for a lot of people here). Because of that there's more doubt, but I did legitimately like her early posting (in a more dilute way than Zen). 60%?
Fable - not as dated, there's a couple of posts that ring pretty town to me. Not above him to fake, probably, but apparently I actually like him a little more than Pie right now? We'll call it like 65% then.
Cobalt - hasn't done enough to really solidify a read that is shot with paranoia. It's an intense but low confidence read, I guess? I would not feel comfortable gambling a game on him right now and he's substantially below everyone else here, probably like 40%.

---------- Post automerged at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Specifics! Specifics! I need to know why you're reading me!

---------- Post automerged at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

Wow, apparently getting into fights restores my will to live.

I do not follow your narrative here? I think you're saying that I'm scum and scum was dodging my wagon but I'm a little confused.

 

Shrug? Like I don't have a better shot if we're aiming solely to hit scum which we need to be doing? Don't think I have the balls to push a Pieguyn shot knowing if I'm wrong I'd probably break down afterwards.

It's not about time inside the thread, it's about when you're here what you're saying is often sounding reasonable in most cases and I agree with large parts of it but it doesn't feel like you just posting exactly what's on your mind, it feels constructed to a degree and I still think your push on Waco makes a lot of sense as W/W.

Stanari - Man, I'm going to seem like a horrible person since that's arguably your most content-filled post of the game but when I mentioned what you think of Fontisian, I meant ignoring her read on you. Like pretend those comments from her don't exist, what do you make on the rest of her play/reads? Can you give me a little specifics about your Pieguyn read?

 

Actually, does anyone have a Zenzao town game I can look at?

If no one wants to link me one I'll go find one myself. I'm skimming his D1 posts again and while walls full of analysis are nice and delicious and all, I'm a bit paranoid that it isn't balanced out with much effort to push the game in any direction fitting these reads (i.e. scum mostly spending all their time just arguing around Fable to look busy). This is more so the case if Jari is town and we had T/T wagons D1 (given he maintained Plot around null and Jari as a weak scum read through the day).

This may be an artifact of him simply not having had a chance to get through all of the analysis he wanted to do, though, so maybe ignore me.

 

@Q - I understand what you're describing as your approach towards the game as mafia, that said I think it's a pretty easy playstyle to divert from as scum when you're self-aware to the degree you are (I don't think "everyone" can adapt just by knowing their self-meta but when the problem is something like you're getting too town read as mafia v town it's something that is work-able with) so I'm not really too enthused to effectively decide my read on you by meta when I'm not even seeing huge similarities to your prior town play. Like, sure you can state the Vaimes read isn't formed and there's no progression on him because you as town had no idea, but there's no questioning from you to others to explain the read or anything where I can see "He's trying to gamesolve there". Like if I look at your reads and your play I'm left going "He's trying to resolve his reads issues...how?" and that's something I think makes more sense from mafia in general.

 

Are you telling me you want me to go full emotion-mode on this game?

I kinda need to contain what I post a bit or I'll end up like I was in i.e. the dance game, which I don't think would be welcome here.

---------- Post automerged at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

Also, to be honest, I'm not following the case on Stanari at all. I don't think her posts read disingenuous and she just has that frozen feel about her that I know all too well due to being kinda in that state D1.

 

Zenzaos most recent town game and his most recent scum game, not read the scum game yet, just got it bookmarked for later reading if I need it.

Don't want need you to go "full emotional", I'm just feeling you very disconnected to your reads which matches your scum play.

---------- Post automerged at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

Not quite sure there "is" a case on Stanari tbh?

 

I mean, when I invest myself really heavily into my reads and get connected I usually wind up like I was in the dance game, soooo.

I suspect you'll have to get accustomed to reading me while I'm playing a bit more balanced.