lynch jarizok

 

RWBY Mafia Votal 3.5.

Jari [8]: Miner, Blab, Cobalt, Fable, DC, Reg, Vaimes, Kai.
Pienyan [2]: Jari, Font.
Kai [2]: Quiddity, Quiddity.

Not Voting [2]: Pienyan, Stanari.

With 14 votes alive, it will be 8 votes to soft lynch and 11 votes to hard lynch.

I’m going to watch the Wire for an hour. If you hammer during this time, you’ll just going to have to wait until I’m done.

 

Pie vs Reg is getting a little silly.

Gotta say I laughed a little but this is pinging all the parts of me that think sniping at TvTs is scum.

+1

I don't like this post but I don't know why :V

This is a yucky vote.

 

No-one ever likes what I say about counterwagons. Probably because it's so easy to hide scum behaviour in them.

The problem is that they're ALSO a really powerful town tool. So it's kind of a balancing act to manage a counterwagon to probable scum in a way that's useful and not just distracting.

Anyway, I don't categorize it as "sniping at TvTs" when the TvT has devolved to the point it had. Town players investigating and prodding at each other? Fine! Town players declaring each other lockscum and yelling a lot? Not so much. I mean one of them still MIGHT be scum, but this is not the time to be attempting to disentangle that particular mess. Reg's new approach is much better.

 

dC

Hey dC

Are you scum?

---------- Post automerged at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------

...ready for someone to call me calling Reg v Pie a TvT a scumslip lol. I'm actually not sure why I did that.

Hmm.

 

I already answered this when Q asked it :V

You've been a little more articulate though, so I'll be nicer. No, but I do think my behaviour requires some after-the-fact explanation because the stuff you said implies you don't understand why I did it. This in turn makes it harder for you and anyone else in your position to derive value from the results, and additionally distracts from other more productive things.

It also introduces a risk that later TvTs or counterwagon things or whatever will break out and will lead to people who comment on these being called scummy. This then pushes the game towards allowing TvTs to continue unabated, which leads to both the townies involved being lynched, which leads to a bad time.

In short, it's actually pretty important that behaviour like the stuff your pointing out NOT be considered automatically scummy, for reasons that go way beyond just me. (Indeed, if I end up dead by lynch or NK later, I would like someone else to be able to look at Reg/pie critically and comment on it similarly)

PREVIEW EDIT: Probably just because it's your opinion? That sort of "scumslip" where you write your opinion as though you KNOW it rather than THINK it is common enough to not actually be a scumslip.

---------- Post automerged at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

EBWOP: ...on the other hand, being over-vigilant for things that look like scumslips in your own posts IS traditionally indicative of scum mindset (town not particularly caring or noticing until someone points it out)

Hmm, indeed.

 

This is going to be a few different posts, there's a lot of stuff I want to cover and I at least want to make this not completely unreadable.

I'm going to start with his general treatment of me D2+. The simplest way I can explain this is that he is not attempting to genuinely sort me or assess my motivation in throughout the entirety of his interactions with/about me.

First off, I was thinking about it some, and I said back on D2 that I didn't think he'd push me because there would have been less risky targets to push. I actually have the complete opposite opinion now as I did back on D2. The reason is actually really simple and I'm an idiot for not drawing the connection earlier; the last game I played before this was an offsite game (MS) where a scum player launched a huge push on me D1 and I spent almost the entire D1 calling him town for it because it felt so ridiculous that it wouldn't be coming from scum, and Reg was spectating the game very closely. I think he knows that it's a weak spot of mine, and if he did, the approach he took fits straight in with the sort of manipulation I know he likes to do as scum; "pie has a pretty notable weak spot, I'll just make a huge push on her and as long as it isn't obviously bad she'll let me push on her and town read me for it" is exactly the sort of thought process typical of him as scum.

From there, all of his posts to me are just, for lack of a better word, off. He maintained me as a firm scum read, and very clearly intended to lynch me sometime in the near future, which pretty much meant that I'd be lynched unless I did something. Then, when I try to convince him he's wrong about me he just ignores it and pulls the "you're hyper-focusing way too much on my read on you, go scum hunt instead". Then when I do try to ignore him and scum hunt elsewhere, he just sits there and says "oh, pie's posts make sense but they just don't ~resonate~ like they do when she's town, she's still probably scum" while at the same time ACKNOWLEDGING that the things I'm writing ARE GOOD. It's a complete catch-22, and then when I tell him I really want to connect with him, he redirects to his reads list - this is a deflection because there's so much more to it than that than just whether our reads match up or not, it's about us finding each other as town and being generally just ~synced~, and it reads like he was actively trying to direct me away from the core point I was making so that he wouldn't have to put any actual thought or effort into it.

I can't put into words how much I hate how he rushed the ending of the day D2. There simply isn't any reason to do so, especially with people like Fable wanting to get analysis out before day-end. This is another maneuver that I think is more typical of scum-him (who has trouble continuing to generate content and would be relieved if the day ended sooner).

D3 rolls around and he has done the exact same shit re: shutting down conversation and rushing the day phase, and moreover, his switch onto me makes literally no sense. Despite being "99% sure" on Jari-scum, he switches to me (someone who until now, if what he said D2 is any indication, he was unsure of and was wanting to see *more* content from both to get a better read on me and to keep it in mind if he needs it after I'm lynched) because "I think there's a small chance that Pie was TMI'ing about Jarizok earlier today"... but where has he actually factored that into his view of the game anywhere? Where has he discussed it or tried to think about what a pie-scum Jari-town world implies anywhere before or after that post. It's simply an excuse to switch onto me because he knows he needs to discredit me *today* or I will get people seriously thinking about the possibility that he's scum, even if I end up being lynched.

Moreover, the actual argument he's trying to push there doesn't make any sense. I'm TMI'ing about Jari, but then I just randomly... flip the read over? Without even bothering to make any follow-through push despite Jari being pretty much my only option for a CW? If I'm going for town credit by WK'ing Jari, the absolute *last* thing I do is just burn all of it by saying "o never mind, Jari might be scum". I know this is kinda meta and none of you know this, but it's simply not how I play. If I WK someone, I completely follow through with it. I don't do this half-assed "kinda sorta defend" because it doesn't provide any cred and it just makes me look bad. Reg knows this and is simply ignoring it because it's inconvenient for him.

How he's just kinda fell off and out of energy that I've started to seriously talk about how he's scum is also more typical of scum-him than town-him. Bonus points for this because if he's town, it should be blindingly obvious now from his POV what I've been feeling for the majority of the game.

Last, I'll rehash a few more quick things that I think he's been deliberately ignoring out of convenience (some of these I've been over, point 2 is new).

1. I do not think it's likely that Reg, despite claiming he's familiar with how I play, is i. so unaware of my tendency to freeze in fast games and ii. so ridiculously closed-minded that he thinks it's absolutely impossible it may be a part of my play after other people bring it up. It's apparently obvious enough that people who don't know me at all can still catch it, i.e. Vaimes and Stanari, so... ???

2. I'm going to rewind a bit and bring up an interaction we had D2. In #1316/#1329 I express that I kinda take issue with Zen's posts a bit. This is important because I got here before Reg did, and expressed a concrete reason for it. Yet even though he spoke a lot about Zen especially near the end of D2 post-Waco flip, it somehow didn't cross his mind until like, just recently, anything along the lines of "hey pie picked up on some Zen stuff a while back, this is something I ought to look into" or "I wonder if this means anything re: pie's alignment" or *anything*, despite a part of this interaction being directed *specifically to him*. And then when he finally did like halfway through this game day he simply just said I did nothing about my Zen read and claimed my Zen read came "out of nowhere", despite the fact that I *did* back it up. It's just an afterthought, not a legitimate thought process.

3. I brought this up a few posts ago, but his last post is just. :/.

---------- Post automerged at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

I agree that fonti has a very good chance of being scum here (in fact this is true regardless of what Reg's alignment is).

If Reg is scum then DC is the other read I'd want to seriously look at again; "make a huge push on pie" from Reg and "push the idea that both sides of the argument are town" from DC is something that'd make a lot of sense being coordinated. If Reg is town, doesn't apply (in which case I'd put DC as lock-town).

Also upon further thought, I retract my former stance that Jari/Reg is impossible. If there's four scum I would continue to say it's unlikely, but not impossible (to the point where I'd still say lynch Reg in 3-way, not before that), but if there's five then I don't think there'd be any hesitation to bus on his part. His last post in particular just gives me this sinking feeling. I fully expect Reg to make a bunch of noise about this regardless of what his actual alignment is, but it needs to be said.

---------- Post automerged at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Next I wanna talk about Waco a bit.

Remember Waco's first real content posts in the game? #233~#243? It's bad. It was bad then and it's bad now. We've been over this already but all of his scum reads were really shallow reads that were mostly consensus reads at the time.

This was Reg's reaction to it.

In the first place, I cannot comprehend what he could have possibly liked in Waco's entrance - the whole thing was transparently bad - but liking the read on Plot is actually ridiculous. Literally the only thing Waco had said about Plot was #236 "Hey Plotless! Are you scum Plotless? Cause I think you might be scum Plotless.". That's it.

This is a read that is simply way too shallow for him as town - he is someone who likes to focus on the actual reasoning and content people are posting. Town-him would have picked up on the fact that there were no real stances here. Town-him would have picked up on the fact that the entire entrance was just shallow. And town-him would not have just wrote off Waco's read on Plot like this without even caring in the slightest about the reasoning behind the read first.

From there, through the rest of D1 he hesitated to put Waco anywhere near his scum list even when Waco continued to make worse and worse posts, including his god-awful #543 about me. He mostly just continued to keep him as null, claimed that it "didn't look like his town or his scum game" and that he needed to play the game properly (never mind the fact that Waco's posts were very readable as they were - this is a delaying tactic).

D2 rolls around and Reg does start talking about Waco... except he was mostly focusing on Waco/me potentially being partners (start from #1057). Then from there he agrees with Fable's (#1099) and MY (#1137) analysis about Waco, but doesn't contribute anything original to the read himself until he arrives at Waco being his preferred shot in #1193 (still with no apparent reason directly coming from Waco's play). Then from there he simply pushed for a shot on "Waco or Q" until it happened.

There's two things here. First is that this generally just looks more like scum bussing in response to the flow of the game than anything, but two, if anyone has actually been diligent enough to read this far, he's doing the same thing with me and Waco that I brought up he did with me and Zenzao in my first post. "Oh, pie actually made good points about Waco, I ought to think about what that actually means" simply was never anything that entered the thought progression in his mind - he just wrote it off as us being S/S for what largely amounted to activity issues on my part and called it there.

The Zenzao interactions I don't really find as notable, with the singular exception that he snuck Zenzao into his LOCK-TOWN list in #955??? This is mostly just unusual because Zenzao hadn't actually really *done* anything, he was mostly just sitting around and writing huge walls with no follow-through (which is what I pointed out about him D2, which Reg promptly ignored to push that my Zen read is "coming out of nowhere"), and the tonal indignation-sort of reads just aren't the sort of things that make someone a lock-town read. But, w/e.

The long and short of this is that I think he handled the Waco read really smoothly, but it points to S/S. I simply just don't think he somehow holds a town read on Waco based on Waco's posts D1, which were transparently bad (for reasons I would most assuredly expect him to notice since we tend to hunt in similar ways a lot) and I think his treatment of Waco D2 was more geared towards appearance and taking advantage of the pushes others were making on Waco to make himself look good, without the actual legwork to back it up.

---------- Post automerged at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Those posts ended up being posted of order, the second post is what I intended to post last.

Anyway, go wild. I'll be around on-and-off the rest of tonight, but I'm tired.

 

dC is now the resident magnet of WTFs. Congratulations! I hope you're proud of yourself.

Please trust that I am self-aware enough to know that.

Although since we're on the topic, I didn't realize I did that until I saw you echo it back to me

---------- Post automerged at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

Pie is kind of punching me in my tonal weak spots. Ow.

I'd appreciate someone handholding me through a case on her though?

 

I've ALWAYS been that. It just hasn't been apparent here up until now because I didn't get a lynch train D1 for once. My mafia career to date has basically been one long attempt to make it work for me, I think the only game where something wacky DIDN'T happen with me was, like, the second one I played.

I think the case on pie is at least partly meta, incidentally, which probably makes anyone but Regfan hand holding you through it pretty tricky.

 

I read pie's post.

 

Like a responsible townie, I read the whole post, but I think only half stuck.

So you mean to tell me, what, five people voted for her without understanding the case enough to explain it to me?

---------- Post automerged at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 PM ----------

A week later I finally figured out that I can multiquote. Better late than never!

This is still awful btw.

 

Please clap.

 

Myself and I suspect Vaimes voted for her with the (at least partial) aim of seeing who else would. Kai I'm pretty sure didn't pay enough attention to explain it, and I can buy that anyone else either only partially understood the case or had other motivations.

Also I said "tricky", not "impossible"

 

Imagine that I am making a face which resembles an alligator swallowing a cat.

---------- Post automerged at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------

I have no idea what the context of this gif is but it's been sitting in my bookmarks forever and seems serendipitously topical!

https://i.imgur.com/cjGgTEX.gif

 

I think she's applauding the first year House Cup results before the whole "last minute points" thing happens? I could be wrong about that though.

Also an alligator swallowing a cat sounds like it would be very pleased with itself, which I don't think is the imagery you were going for :v

 

So, context time. Didn't really want to go into this but feel it's necessary now. I joined this game primarily because Pie was in here and wanted to be in her first game at the site. I was and am literally exhausted from WH still, that game took a lot out of me. I actually really wanted to draw scum here (And I hate playing scum) because it'd have meant I wouldn't be anywhere near as emotionally committed towards the game and frankly I think I can win as scum in a playerlist like this given I know what people think my meta is and they're not really correct with it.

Played D1 by giving myself a post restriction limit to attempt to pace myself if I end up in a longer game again because I didn't want to somehow still be alive D3/D4 onward and have zero energy left by that stage, broke that post restriction limit because I'm a weak-willed man but decided the focus on D1 should just be trying to create a town pool that I felt good with hoping that a scum flip D1 would solidify my thoughts on the game, was even going to go as far as making fun of Vaimes D2 by calling Plotless Pozzai but that never panned out.

Then D2 figured that I couldn't actually stand back and not gamesolve and really immersed myself into the game to attempt to work it out (Think I had something like ~100 posts in the game phase D2), I also was more confident in my scum read on Pie then I let on inside the thread but couldn't bring myself to hard pull the trigger on that read because I know she's the type to resort to emotional manipulation knowing it's a weak spot in my game. So instead figured I'd state the read but not push on it hoping that either a) I'd get shot and people would just lynch her afterwards or b) That I'd see something that'd point towards her not being mafia (Interaction analysis or via her play), neither have happened and I've just grown more convinced she's scum thus the vote change to her today. But frankly, I don't have it in me to have several back and forth walls right now, so I'd rather just lynch Jari!Scum, do some interaction analysis overnight and go from there.

I'll respond to the rest of the post when I'm not at work.

 

(Did you know that there is at least one youtube video in which an alligator eats a cat? I did not.)

I dunno, I don't think swallowing a cat would be a very enjoyable experience personally. Especially a live cat, which I neglected to specify.

 

Yeah, okay, that makes a bit more sense now :v

I am not entirely surprised that video exists, though. There's all sorts of weird shit on youtube.

 

Please.

/ten char

---------- Post automerged at 02:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 AM ----------

Reg, do you tend to be as invested in scum qts as I suspect you are?

 

Yes. I've gone as far as drafting entire posts for partners before.