This won't help you at all and I'm not even answering your question, but overall I'd describe my play as a more annoying, less correct Prime Intellect.

 

I really think anyone scumreading pie needs to sit and think about whether:
- pie is as emotionally manipulative as scum as she'd have to be to be scum in this game
- pie is as high-effort wall-spammy as she'd have to be as scum to be scum in this game


Other important notes:
- pie being scum makes Kai's switch from Jarizok onto pie even MORE notable, to the point where I think it's an anti-align. If there was more actual will behind that wagon, Kai's vote switch would have gotten pie killed. As such I do favour lynching Kai before pie, and if Kai is scum this is good enough to put pie in locktown for me when combined with the above points.
- Anyone scumreading Cobalt needs to re-read the Zenzao lynch and affirm to me personally that they still believe Cobalt was bussing. Seriously, people.

---------- Post automerged at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------

EBWOP:

See this is why I think Kai's play is just derptown. Prime is a good comparison. So in relation to the above I'd rather not knock over Kai OR pie until we've tried out some other shit. Like miner, or blab.

 

dC you're talking about meta in a situation where (I believe) a decent number of us haven't ever played with pie before. Or at the very least I haven't.

And in other news your read on Kai makes zero sense to me.
Fable you did put a gun to my head so...

 

The odds of me lynching Blab before Kai or Pie are pretty close to zero. I don't actually mind several of your points on Miner; I think his vague stances and leaving options open here is a very solid scum-tell, I'm less sold on the "He didn't vote" thing since people at DLP tend to use their vote less in general than elsewhere and I can buy the "Take time -> Vote" stance since I do it a lot but your point about his stance around Zenzao/Jarizok is pretty accurate too.

I think you're not attributing anywhere near enough strength to some of the points against Kai here and writing him off as a non-preference due to his playstyle in a real mistake. He's been pretty openly pushing just town throughout the game with his reasoning behind several of his pushes and treatment of certain players (Cobalt/Me/Pie/Fontisian) not fitting as town at all.

 

I haven't played with pie either, I've just read a few past games on mafiascum.net. This would be outlandish scum behaviour from MOST players, though, so it's not entirely meta (part of it is that pie's actions would be a towntell to me coming from anyone)

I can't articulate the Kai thing, which is why I'm largely letting it hang at "he's probably town but going to get lynched anyway so whatever". There's just no real point arguing that "oh that scummy looking thing is just because Kai is mislynch bait" once it's been brought up enough.

---------- Post automerged at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

EBWOP: I think calling Kai's play a "playstyle" is not accurate...it's more like a lack of one. I haven't read the coherence into it that you have, so it's picking up to me as just doing a bunch of things on a whim.

That said, the way you phrase that adds another reason I'm not going to bother talking about Kai any more: If he is town I am unable to convince anyone, and if he is scum I clearly have nothing useful to say about him (as you say, I can't look past his previous behaviour to make the scumread, which I'll admit is a personal flaw but not one I can earnestly deal with until Kai actually flips). So I guess go ahead and knock him over and we'll see then.

 

Hey dC have you ever played with Kai before?

 

Yeah, couple times on Fantasy Strike before it shut down. Two witch hunts, I believe? Possibly a game or two on Chocolate Pi as well.

 

And can you recall a game of Kai's (scum or town) where he wasn't at some point on the chopping block for a lynch (unless he was mechanically cleared or he was a role that would never get lynched [LC or something])?

Like, mislynch bait isn't AI for him at this point.

 

I wouldn't describe Kai's actions as "on a whim" though, I played pretty deep into WH8 with him where he was town and could follow and understand a lot of his reads and stances, and even when I disagreed I could see the wheels churning in some of his posts. Here I don't and when I look at what he's actually done, the reads he's presented and the complete lack of interactions both directions with him and the flipped scum it just points fairly heavily towards him being mafia.

Like there's just some things you look at re; how he treated Q/Myself, re; how he treated Pie yesterday and me today and it just screams of scum motivation. Then you look at things like him not mentioning Cobalt for 1/2 the game while he was his strongest scum read and his progression on Fontisian and it's just got to be scum here.

---------- Post automerged at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------

I think what Miners trying to say is that you're treating him as "mslynch bait" due to him having a lower-content playstyle when the amount of content isn't the issue, it's that what he's put forward has a lot of scum motivation behind it.

 

I'm not particularly good at closed setup games, because a lot of how I assess other players is based on reviewing their actions / reasoning based on what's possible within the setup.

Which is obviously something you can do very little of in a game like this.

 

Vote:Kaidash

ftr I'm village reading everyone to some extent except for Kai, Miner, and Fonti.

 

Hey Kai, how does that work exactly? Like, I don't understand how you tie people's actions into what's possible in this setup. People pushing others and/or making walls or just fluffing it up in the thread will occur no matter what type of game it is, so why does the setup need to be open?

---------- Post automerged at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------

Wait can you explain why Reg/pie is v/v?

 

Yes, that's why I said I'm not good at closed setup games.

In open games like WH, town players are very influenced by their roles while in comparison, scum tend not to make plays informed by their roles.

 

Pretty sure I've gone over this a few billion times.....

 

Like I said, I'm giving up on talking about Kai. I'm not going to come out and say "yeah I think Kai is scum now" because I still DON'T, but I can't pin down why I don't beyond vague feelings so it's probably just personal bias and you should ignore my opinion on it. Besides which he'll probably get run over anyway.

As for putting forward scummy content...meh. It didn't read to me as scummy. That's literally all I have to say about it. If it's just "failing to push on Zen/Waco" then whoop de doo, that describes a bunch of people (including Miner). If it's how he treated townies, then uh, if he's town he doesn't know they're townies? This might be a misalignment of scumtells (i.e. things that scumtell to you and Miner don't to me) but I never picked up scum motivations from the things he did. Again though, it kind of doesn't matter at this point.

I will still maintain that Miner is scummier for the reasons I've outlined over the course of the day, though (I mean he also failed to interact meaningfully with flipped scum etc, didn't he?)

 

I'll freely admit that I didn't interact with Waco at all (I still don't recall much of, if anything, what he did). Zen I talked to, but I was very *shrug* about him.

I do think you're wrong about your smoking gun comment. The reason I "ignored" Zen there is because I had been gone when Zen dropped that huge wallpost that made people suspect him, so when I got back I had no idea what was going on, and had just took a look at Vira's most recent votal and been like, why tf am I not voting.

 

This is a thing I guess!

 

Make 3 billion and one please and thank you.

---------- Post automerged at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

Can I get an example of what you're trying to say because I'm not really following.

 

ptap

not sober, would rather go to bed than use my brain

I'll be back tomorrow morning.

 

As in you DO think Cobalt is bussing, or you don't?

Assuming the former case:

This is before Zen gets run up.

This is AS Zen starts getting run up

These posts represent a fair chunk of Cobalt's in-thread activity, since Cobalt has been pretty inactive.

Given Zen is known scum, what makes you think these come from scum?

So in this narrative, why are you not also questioning why Zen has been run up? I mean, you see the votal, you see a Jari wagon competing with a Zen wagon, and you express no interest in knowing why the Zen wagon is there?