You're not funny.

 

Well, he's been gone for a hundred years. Genetically engineering his sworn enemy (who we know is hard to do with G.E) and creating thousands of Zetsus would take up a lot of his time, along with mind-controlling the Mizukage.

clean-cut like that would have gotten boring. Its like saying if only Harry Potter was only the first book. We didn't know much shit then, captain.

Well, he'll probably do a big spread scene of them all charging, then the next few following pages of individual ninja (mostly Konoha or ones from other villages already shown like Temari, Gaara, Bee, etc...)

Its a fic I've been planning to write for the last 5-6 months. Its an AU of a lot of the major concepts of Narutoverse, so I've been writing a lot of stuff that contradicts canon and trying to set it all up together. Zetsu was one of the stumbling blocks.

 

Orochimaru was the superior villain by far. Much more interesting and creative.

So, Danzo had to have gotten to Shisui's eye right after his death right? Seeing he had to manage it within 15 minutes, same regarding all the Sharingan's from the murdered Uchiha clan. Yet still the Police Force thought what Shisui did was a suicide when he must have clearly been missing an arm and an eye AND the Konoha ANBU didn't find it fishy that every Uchiha was missing two eyes.

Cool story bro.

I am sure that the village that tried to capture a four year old girl for her bloodline had qualms to steal from the dead. That would be amoral right? Hardly a thing someone who gets paid to kill would do.

Anyways, I don't want to pick holes in an otherwise airtight plot.

 

lolwut? You may want to rephrase that.

 

Very true, but in terms of the actual plot, Orochimaru was a chump, he may have even learned some of his stuff from Madara sUchiha.

It's quite possible that those eye's retained bloodline capabilities, but in the case of a Byakugan, which presumably needs sight to function, it wouldn't work out all too well. A blind Byakugan, yeah, that's very useful.

It's possible that the things retain abilities for sometime after death, but would have to be transplanted within 15 minute's or otherwise preserved to have any sight.

Though within a day the eye's have pretty much turned mostly to mush.

I wouldn't discount a root anbu stealing an eye from Shisui after he died, then waiting for the Village police to quit their investigation, before retrieving the arm. Muscular flesh has a much higher half life. Though it would still be practically unusable, clots having formed in the arm within hours after the death. Rigor having formed within 30 minutes to 2 hours.

This is all discounting some sort of NINJA!MAGIC preservation used on corpses.

It may be that they lacked the knowledge, or the means.

Also kidnapping is relatively minor compared to you know, tearing apart live and dead subjects, injecting solutions into infants and fetuses. Watching as the subject fetuses and infants mutate, making meticulous notes of every reaction. Cutting open the infant's now dead corpse and studying what happened to the insides. Finally once you have it, you then have to go through the process of refining it into something usable by older, more set physiology. This would probably involve moving up to toddlers working out proper doses, watching as they mutate, then cutting them open. Finally onto small kids, then into pre-adolescents, then into teenagers, then into adults, then into yourself if you are sure of the safety.

Compared to that, yeah, I'd probably rather kidnap a girl and state sanctioned rape her until she's sired about 20 or so kids with her bloodline, then kill her. Using her kids to start a future clan.

 

Deidara vs Gaara rematch? FTW!!

 

Fucking perverts. :awesome

 

Well, considering the way he appeared from behind the Mizukage he was mind-controlling...

 

fair point, I just find it hard to take Madara seriously since he is basically nothing more than a generic bond villain.

I don't know if I misunderstood you here but how useful would a blind Sharingan be? That is the whole point of the MS, its continuous use blinds the user which means the Sharingan won't work at all. It is an eye bloodlinelimit after all.

which either means that this isn't true in the Naruto world or that the Konoha police corpse are the most incompetent bunch of dimwits ever if they think a body who is missing an eye and an arm was a suicide.

The Uchiha police still would have noticed that an eye was missing and how retarded do they have to be to still assume a suicide?

The clan or the ANBU have no reason to do so and would probably have noticed if root did so. Possible I guess but rather convenient/improbable

Either way they are amoral scumbags with no ethics whatsoever since they don't NEED the Byakugan, they just want it because they are greedy. They would take what they get.

I am merely pointing out that it is weird that noone in this manga burns bodies. Especially since people obviously are capable of stealing bloodlinelimits for a long time, which was the reason for the Hyuuga cursed seal in the first place. And still, despite japanese tradition on which the manga is based on, despite the logic behind it, they just bury the bodies and every schmuck can take what they want.

These are just so obviously written just for the plots sake that they needed stolen bloodlines, the story needed Konoha to be rockstupid and bam they were.

The Shodaime became everyones bitch after he died.

 

Accepted, but I still consider a time when the major villains of the story weren't pulling deus ex machinas out their asses to be a step up from the level of villain we have now. It's like the Joker said in Batman: it's time for a new class of villains. Hopefully a better class.

Madara had serious potential, still does, but Kishimoto's not using it. I agree with Nemrut, he's like a generic Bond villain now. Plans within plans, stupid ones, and no depth to go along with it save for ruling the world. Frankly, I would have been happy with him pitting the other villages against each other. He's had decades to come up with a plan for world domination. Having the villages declare war on each other and then capitalizing on the chaos would have been a fun read.

It's amazing how much creativity Kishi has for creating Naruto, but then he doesn't use it at points in the story to make it absolutely epic.

I wish Joe wrote Naruto, or Naruto fiction. That would be epic.

 

Is he even reading Naruto? But I agree, it would be epic.

Madara is not a bad villain, but he has the same problem as Aizen in Bleach - it was cool revelation that Tobi is a bad boy, but from there it was downhill.

As for the numbers - it seems all these theories from fanfics about remedial classes and other ways to become a shinobi should be consider a canon.

 

Coulda sworn the point of the blindness of the MS was caused to make the user use the MS more, and grow more addicted. Eventually culminating in a point where you are so blind, that the MS works, but you have to keep it active constantly if you want to see. Then again, I may be completely wrong, haven't seen any new exposition on the MS in a long while, though, and that was pretty much the explanation eluded to when this was explained at some point. Otherwise, how would Madara know where his brother's eye's were to maneuver them properly?

Now a blind normal sharingan, could be useful, not sure how it works exactly. could not be

Also note, Danzo doesn't use the eye's and the arms for much more than dead weight for the majority of the time. It maybe the special's are still active, but the sight and prediction isn't.


This is of course functioning on real world logic, and the presence of Demons and Chakra tends to ruin that. It's possible that chakra saturating the body slows the natural deterioration.

Depends, I had a friend who shoved the top left side of his body into an old wood chipper. Missing an arm and a quarter of his head, it was still ruled suicide.

Part of the reason for confusion is that, really, we don't know, what truly happened at these events. It's possible Itachi killed him, then he or Madara hypnotoaded the majority of the Uchiha clan.

Once again, to bring up the pretense of magics, they kinda ruin any point of actual RL logic within a show. As they say, a Wizard did it. Maybe some form of henge, maybe hypnosis by Itachi or Madara, maybe a seal of some sort, or possibly all three. Maybe they don't tend to cut people open to examine their interior in this society. Preferring to use external methods. Etc, etc, etc, Fictional universes have their own logic. Take Avatar:TLA, do you question that what appears to be a 14 tonne buffalo and hippo mix can straight out fly, do you question that the people that throw around fire, also get lightning?

True, it's just one of an infinite number of possibilities. It hasn't been truly explained, so I can bullshit up any number plausible solutions to attempt to suspend disbelief.

Eugenics is a big step towards the moral high ground compared to massive amounts of baby and child torture.

Hunterninja are supposed to not sure how often they actually do it, at least shown within the manga.

Eh, I agree it's completely stupid, but most people are assuming that the protections on the tombs will protect the bodies. It's also possible that they generally seal the bloodline after death. But once again, pure bullshit viable solutions. Not canon, et cetera.

The Shodaime is interesting, his wasn't a body part Rochi stole, it was DNA, which lasts a vastly larger amount of time. Then was the process of attempting to get the bloodline to work, IE, the torture of tens of children and fetuses to get a working bloodline out of it. Even then Rochi disregarded that experiment as a complete and utter failure. Carrying on and torturing more kids until he found a better solution to the problem.

 

MS causes the deterioration of the eye. The more you use it, the more you lose your sight and, I think it's implied, the use of the MS jutsus themselves.

It's a double-edged sword, which is why Madara's EMS is so important. Izuna willingly gave up his eyes to Madara (presumably because his eyesight was the better of the two at that point) and Madara pretty much hit the jackpot.

I was under the impression that the only Sharingan Danzou had that was actually a functional eye was Shisui's. The rest were simply there for the purpose of chaining Izanagi in a fight.

I disagree.

We do know what happened at this point to a good degree. Itachi killed Shisui to gain his MS. It's one of the central events that shape his character throughout the series, even after we learned that Shisui was part of a group planning a coup that would have started a world war.

It makes up a part of Itachi's sacrifice that defined his character. He killed his friends and family for the sake of peace, but couldn't bring himself to kill Sasuke.

And in regards to the missing eyes/limbs, you all seem to be ignoring a hugely important fact here:

The destruction of the Uchiha clan was an operation sanctioned by Konoha's top brass and tasked to Itachi. The Hokage ordered him to massacre his clan. It was an S-ranked mission, the only one Itachi performed before becoming a missing nin. Danzou was in on it, Homura and Koharu were in on it, and Hiruzen was in on it. So given that this was a sanctioned mission, do you think that the Hokage and his top advisers are going to balk at a few missing Sharingan? They just wiped out a clan with a uniquely powerful bloodline limit, and you think they're just going to burn all the super-eyes and pretend like there wasn't a stockpile of powerful weapons to be salvaged?

And on top of that, given the rather cut and dry nature of the massacre, do you think they really would have gone out of their way to perform a huge investigation into what happened? Which bodies were accounted for and which weren't? All of these guys have Black Ops operatives working under them, and to any above board investigators this was a cut and dry case. Kid goes crazy and murders everyone, case closed.

More likely than not Hiruzen had the clean-up pushed through quickly to put the whole thing behind them.

Hunter ninja are supposed to destroy the body of a rogue ninja on site to prevent any ninja from stealing it's secrets, but Hashirama wasn't a rogue ninja. He was the Hokage, and as such was a prominent and respected figure when he passed. Unless his body wasn't recovered from the field (which I doubt given how many nice little Konoha ninja got their hands on his DNA) he probably was carried home and had a nice big funeral held in his honor.

Does anyone really think that a guy like Danzou wouldn't be invited to the funeral or something? Hell, Hashirama could have been his sensei based on that scene with Tobirama. And Orochimaru probably got his stuff from Danzou.

I think the one really big "WTF why didn't you burn it??" moment was with Nagato's corpse, but I can somewhat understand given Konan's attachment to Yahiko and Nagato as well as her plan to kill Madara. Sure she played it wrong, but at least she wasn't ignorant of the danger.

 

True, still it's kinda weird, I'd assume the possibility of another Uchiha preforming the surgery, rather than Madara himself.

Still prefer the gradual blindness resulting in forced overuse to keep competence up, eventually culminating in a large degree of insanity brought on by hallucinations.

True, looking at it now, it would make some sense. Hell doesn't he normally keep that under a bandage? Did he ever say that was really even functional beyond MS abilities?

By abilities, I mean the MS stuff like Izanami, Tsukuyomi, Amatarasu, Susanoo, not the standard Sharingan, I can see your every move, copy what ever you do, implant suggestions into your mind, et cetera, stuff.

But do we really know what happened after the event? Are we given a chase cam style flashback for Shisui's corpse?

To be clearer, I'm not talking about what happened at the event, I'm talking about the vague uncertain stuff immediately after the event. For all I can recall, Itachi kills Shisui offscreen, we see the Uchiha at the river, and then it timeskips to a clan meeting a few day's later.

Very good idea and explanation, and it fit's with Hiruzen's non-confrontational style. It was better for his domain at the time to just ignore missing things from the Uchiha clan. Not draw conflict from a semi-derisive portion of his populous that still holds a purpose, however secretive.

That's a fun idea. Hurt's the brain to think about though.

This stuff is fun.

Very good point, also has it been confirmed that the majority of the Uchiha weren't burned on death? Have we seen something like an Ossuary or mass pile of Uchiha corpses or something?

EDIT: P.S. Your thread's on Naruto-fan were what inspired my renewed liking of Naruto, post timeskip, if only to come up with theories on what the fuck is actually happening. It's almost like a game of Clue.

EDIT2: Also it's a good target for my perennial habit of bitching about things.

 

agreed

You are probably right, it just seems fishy to me that everyone was ok with the plan to cram as many Sharingan's into Danzo's arm as possible as opposed to have like 20 Sharingan ninja.

Or if Danzo did it in secret, what I assume, that no one question that all those super-weapons were missing and no one asked whee the salvaged Sharingans were

Only this is a Japenese based culture and there they burn bodies normally. Even if we completely disregard traditional and spiritual reasons, it makes fucking sense to burn the body in the Naruto world. How naive are they to think that everyone is going to respect the dead? They are ninja. Tenzo/Yamato is the living proof that people are going to fuck with the dead, even if they were respected figures.

It is like a movie where the plot is only ongoing because the main characters make retardedly stupid mistakes and if normal people had been in it, all the problems would have been resolved much, much earlier.

The whole thing with the clones, the Sharinganarm, the theft of the Shodaime's cells/DNA would have never been an issue if Konoha had been somewhat competent.

Agreed. Or at least slap a few of the bajillion exploding tags on his eyes and set them to go off if Madara enters the room or something like that.

 

I never said that they wouldn't have burned the body eventually - that's SOP for a ninja in the Naruto world. I'm saying that Danzou had plenty of opportunity to take the cells if he'd wanted to.

As far as Madara is concerned, nothing but Hashirama himself could have prevented him from getting his cells. Madara took them in battle with Hashirama, remember?

And furthermore, I think you're blowing this whole thing out of proportion. Nobody here is using Hashirama's Mokuton for world domination, which is the concern the higher-ups probably would have had at the time. Who would have thought that his bijuu-control and Rikudou connection would play so hard down the line?

Nobody but Madara, Danzou, and Orochimaru, that's who. Hell, Danzou and Orochimaru probably didn't figure out that connection until much, much later. Hashirama was a powerful ninja in many ways but his kekkai genkai wasn't a game-breaker in any sense of the word. Just another elemental fusion in the eyes of many others. The bijuu had already been divvied up, and sure, the bijuu control would probably be useful down the line but who was going to create an army of Hashirama clones to handle a handful of jinchuuriki/bijuu that a normally strong ninja can take down anyways?

Only a fucked up sicko would do that, or someone who knew much too much.

 

...how exactly was the Tsuchikage flying?

 

Just to get this out of the way: LOL, PENIS.

 

Take a pick between Peter Pan no Jutsu, Tinkerbelle no Jutsu and Fairy Dust no Jutsu.

Rehio already addressed the obligatory armadillo penis joke.

With those out of the way, the chapter was pretty decent. Sure, the plan to hide them on a huge moving island wasn't all too bright and the only one stupid enough to fall for the "researching ecology" excuse is Naruto and didn't fool anyone but Deidara made this rather enjoyable. I just hope he kicks some ass and kills the flying earth ninjas.

As to why they can fly, i think it is pretty obvious. Kishi needed a fight between Deidara and the members of his old village and since Deidara fought in midair, he needed for them to fly too and since he was too lazy to draw flying animals for them, he just made them fly.


All in all, alright chapter. Mandatwo was a bit strange though. Did they clone everything they could get their hands on? i am a bit surprised Kabuto didn't have five Deidaras

 

I just hope Kabuto has a better plan than to let all the reanimated Akatsuki retain their personalities. Kakuzu would probably say "fuck this" if he was told to fight Naruto again, and Nagato would definitely turn around and tear Kabuto's snake out of his ass. Same goes for Itachi.

Would be lulzy though if Madara just let Kabuto let his summons kill him off - though apparently Kabuto can control them to an extent.

I'd like to see the Tsuchikage and his team open a can on Deidara.