We've discussed the different models of how the Wizengamot works before, from a hereditary chamber to an elected body to appointments by the Minister for Magic.

One of the options is self-selection, where a person is granted a seat on the Wizengamot only by invitation from the Wizengamot. For the sake of this thread, let's assume that model holds. The Wizengamot functions as a kind of Elder's Council for wizarding Britain, self-selecting its membership.

More specifically, let's say:

- The Wizengamot has 66 members.

- Wizengamot members sit for life, so a new member is only chosen when an old member dies. This typically happens maybe once every 18 months.

- When a member dies, the Wizengamot gathers as a complete body and votes to appoint out of their own membership a committee consisting of 6 members who will decide upon the next member.

- The committee selects the invitee by majority vote. If the committee is tied, then the Chief Warlock has the casting vote.

- Invitees may refuse to take up the invitation, in which case the decision reverts to the committee.

- In terms of powers, the Wizengamot approves new laws proposed by the Ministry's Heads of Department, selects and dismisses the Minister for Magic (who has the power to appoint and dismiss Heads of Department), and is the ultimate judicial authority.

Within this system (or other self-selection systems you can envisage which are similar to it):

1. What do you imagine the dynamics of the Wizengamot would be?

2. What political stories can you envisage?

Dynamics

For me, the most obvious effect of such a system is substantial conservatism. A self-selecting body will generally seek to only ever invite new members who will not rock the boat. Therefore while there may well be different political factions (who exert their influence on the composition of the body via the selection committee), there will be a certain baseline conservatism that the whole body shares.

I also think that the membership would be old (thus the council of elders comparison) because young people tend to be more radical so conservatism also leans elderly.

The main exception I can see to these general rules would be where the Wizengamot is forced by circumstance to invite a new member whom it would usually not select. The deep-rooted fear of such an institution is always revolution. To avoid that, the Wizengamot must maintain either legitimacy in the eyes of the people, or sufficient power to ignore the people. For these reasons, I think the Wizengamot would seek to invite new powerful and/or popular wizards to their ranks - even where those wizards would otherwise be unacceptable due to their youth or radicalism - in order to head off revolution by incorporating potential threats into the existing power structure.

Stories

The obvious story to tell in this system would be Harry attempting to gain a seat on the Wizengamot in order to enact some change, struggling against the innate conservatism of the institution. What I like about this set-up is that it's the reverse of the usual indy!Harry political set-up. Usually indy!Harry is someone who never sought political power but has huge quantities of it thrust upon him without ever having to work for it. I think the opposite is far more interesting: a Harry who lacks political power, but wants/needs it to achieve something he cares about.

What I also like about the set-up is that it allows for a post-DH Harry who is immensely popular but because of the inherent conservatism of wizarding institutions, is finding it difficult to translate that popularity into direct political power. If he wants that Wizengamot seat despite his youth and radicalism, he is going to have to get his hands a bit dirty, essentially making the Wizengamot so afraid of what he might do outside their power structure that they invite him to join them simply to contain him.

And there are lots of ways such a story could go. You could play it straight and have Harry succeed, obviously. You could have him fail but in an interesting way, like he ends up choosing instead to act through proxies while never sitting on the Wizengamot himself. Or you could take the "victory has defeated you" approach and depict how the Wizengamot's strategy works, with Harry progressively moderating his position in order to secure some amount of change, ultimately slotting into the Wizengamot's existing Overton window of acceptable positions.

 

I'd love to see a post Battle of Hogwarts political thriller with the basic premise that everything that happened during Voldemort's reign was technically all by the books and legal. You know, it's not the conservatives fault if the more liberal members of Wizengamot didn't show up in the important meetings or ended up mysteriously dead... Voldemort still would have technically taken over though proper transfer of power and with the Wizengamot continuing operating as normal all through the war, while Harry and co don't have any legitimacy beyond violence.

Basically in order to get justice Harry would need to go for a revolution, with many of his allies really not feeling good about bringing on the guillotines and totally demolishing the existing power structure.

 

Love this idea.

Things Harry might try as pressure tactics:

1. Forming citizens groups to hunt down Death Eaters the Ministry isn't pursuing very aggressively. He's goading the Wizengamot into labeling his activities illegal vigilantism.

2. Organizing strikes/boycotts of dark magic associated stores to pressure Ministry into cracking down.

 

I think that money would be a factor but would not be an absolute necessity though the median wealth would definitely skew towards having more than the average wizard. The most important factor would be good relations with the existing members. Being a pureblood is also not necessary with half-bloods being elected but the presence of muggle-borns is generally limited in the Wizengamot due to many of them not having the required connections or money.

 

I can see a committee to select candidates, but it seems unlikely they would be promoted to the Wizengamot without a full vote.

It's not a matter of legitimacy, but rather not being so unpopular people will use armed revolution to replace them. The people can hate the Wizengamot, but it takes another level for people to use violence to replace it given the risks of failure.

 

To be honest, thinking of the Wizengamot as the legislative branch of the Ministry as well as its judiciary has always struck me as a fanon invention that isn't borne out in the books, and just saves the trouble of creating a new body that serves that purpose or treating the Minister as being able to rule by decree, which, if we're honest, is how things worked in the books when push came to shove.

Of course, with the proviso that I think some other body is the actual wizard legislature if they even have one, we can't ignore the strong likelihood that it was decapitated during/after the war. Between deaths of key members, Death Eaters or otherwise, others going to jail as the public demands not to repeat the mistakes of the first war, and a drop in credibility for being perceived to have rolled over for Voldemort's coup, they'll be more vulnerable to public pressure than they're used to and rudderless due to loss of leadership. The inherent conservatism of such a body would remain an obstacle, but another challenge might just be the difficulty of anyone getting their way amidst a general atmosphere of confusion.

As for tactics Harry could use to tip the odds in his favor, his main rhetorical weapon would probably be tarring opponents by association with Voldemort's regime. Security concerns are a perennial favorite for overtaking entrenched power structures, and if the Minister and magical law enforcement are on side, then threats of investigations against certain members for collaboration might do something. And even if the target is clean on that front, they might fear other skeletons being dragged out of the closet.

But I guess it depends on what reforms Harry is pushing for. If they can't easily be justified as responses to the Death Eater takeover, then exploiting public fear and outrage over that would obviously do a lot less for him.

 

When looking to get an idea of how the Wizengamot would operate, there’s probably no better place to look than it’s real life inspiration right? I’d imagine you know more than most here about the historical Witan/Witenagemot being from the UK yourself Taure.

As such rather than being a legislative body it would be more of an advisory group, and may have a role in electing/rarely deposing the Minister for Magic. Probably some members have hereditary seats due to their noble status, others are appointed for life by the Minister to be more loyal to his agenda (we kind of see this with Umbridge being involved in Harry’s trial right?) - generally with the caveat of only if they’re accepted by the existing members. Though I suppose it’s quite possible if not likely that role and form of the Wizengamot has changed in the past millennium since the original concept.

I definitely find the history of the Wizengamot to be an interesting concept in terms of muggle-wizard relations throughout the years. The last historical Witan was held 1067 according to the above Wikipedia page, putting it right after William of Normandy’s conquest. That would suggest a potential even earlier split between muggle and wizarding governance in England (that the wizards resisted Norman culture and kept their own Saxon ways like the Wizengamot). Although this random fandom page I found while looking into the concept claims the Wizengamot came into existence after the Statute of Secrecy/Ministry of Magic came around to replace the Wizard’s Council that ruled previously (supposedly mentioned in Fantastic Beasts and Quidditch Throughout the Ages, so I suppose it goes to what level of canon you hold those to be - without touching on the whole Pottermore aspect as I know little about it).

As for Harry interacting with the Wizengamot, my favourite take on this is definitely in ‘A Black Comedy’ where Harry comes in and tries to force them to modernise by taking the absolute piss out of the whole thing and using their archaic traditions against them by stabbing some peers with the Sovereign Saber. More stories should involve a little friendly stabbing among dignitaries.

 

As a Yank I'm obligated to put in a good word for a good caning to spice up your legislative sessions.

 

I can see the force in this as a political comment. However, I feel like giving the power to a small committee works better for stories, because it focuses the power in the hands in a manageable number of individuals who can then become the narrative focus of political efforts. It's a lot harder to tell a story about convincing a large body of people than convincing a handful of important linchpins.

 

It would be interesting for the Minister to be an elected official and the legislature to not. It would be unlikely though, since people would simply be able to pressure their elected leader to neuter the power of an unelected body. Or at the very least, make it an elected one. My personal headcanon of late has been something similar to the Historical city of London. It's a pretty good model, seeing as it's structure has been pretty undisturbed for a few centuries at least, and manages to combine the aesthetics of democracy with the ability to self-select members.



The specific part which is interesting to me is that anyone who want to run for election to the court of alderman has to either be approved by the court of alderman, or be a member of a recognized guild. Recognized that is, by the court of alderman. In the city of London, the Mayor is elected by the court of alderman too, but since we know that the Minister is directly elected that can be different.

Dynamics and Stories:

So this creates a situation where, without actual hereditary seats, you have a system where people with influence in the Wizengamot can have their heirs and followers inducted into it. It also creates a situation where it is possible for people to fall out of favor with the wizengamot. While people who are in the body probably aren't going to be expelled, barring extraordinary circumstances, it would be possible for someone who becomes unpopular, for whatever reason, to be unable to get their sons and daughters in. It would also create the potential for someone to try and lobby the body against some specific member, to bar their preferred inductees or offspring, as an example.

As to the makeup of the body itself, it would probably have all the major craft and business interests pretty well represented, since all the various guilds would be able to have their preferred people stand for election. This creates a compromising relationship between the body and monied interests, without straight up saying a person has influence because they throw around a lot of bribes.

Lastly, while the wizengamot in this setup would be pretty insular and only vaguely democratic, it would have to keep up the appearance of democracy. The people who are in it, while not facing much actual competition, would have to be at least charismatic or good enough to get elected by the people. So it's unlikely someone openly evil or particularly dumb would make it in.
Also, I imagine people would be pretty annoyed if they didn't have any options whatsoever to pick to represent them. So there would also likely be some tokenism involved. I'm imagining for example, a singular outspoken muggle born without the power to change much. A small faction of elderly folk bordering on the edge of activists who're interested in addressing some social issues. Etc.

 

I think the City of London approach is a good one, and if you were telling a politically focused story I think you would be justified in taking the time to explain such a complex model to the reader, as it's the main focus of the story. However, for other stories, where the Wizengamot is relevant but not the focus, I think having such a complex model would be difficult as it would place a substantial burden of exposition on the author, one that is out of proportion to the role the body plays in the story.

 

I don't think this mechanism would be sufficient to maintain the geriatric nature of this Wizengamot. If anything it would accelerate it's destruction. The youth would have time on their side with their lifetime term, on top of whatever advantages made the members want to rope him in. Such oligarchy must not only have means to maintain power with the few, but also keep one of them from accruing too much power. Having the membership being temporary could be a measure to keep such individuals from gaining complete control and utterly changing the institution. Thirteen Years sounds nice to me.

Selecting the Minister also seems a bit excessive on top of legislative and judiciary power, my perception of the Wizengamot is that the Minister has much more power over it than the opposite. Granted, you can change that, but you would have difficulty convincing me that this Wizengamot manages to keep their immense power while also being a self-selecting body. Maybe have a portion of the seats linked to certain ministerial positions, so that the power and influence goes both ways.

 

I had posted on a plot bunny in the past in which Harry, not Kingsley, ended up being made interim Minister of Magic following Voldemort's defeat, as a symbol and rallying point, but intended to be a figurehead as the government recovers. Harry of course is not content to be a mere figurehead and does go about actually governing. In that version of the plot bunny, the Wizengamot was effectively eradicated to mirror the inspiration of that plot bunny (Tom Clancy's Executive Orders), but it would be interesting with Harry acting as interim Minister of Magic with an existing Wizengamot in the immediate fallout of Voldemort's second defeat. Being the Minister of Magic gives Harry theoretically a great deal of authority, but you could probably spill a lot of ink on Harry trying to work inside a systme inherently resistant to change and where it's very easy to fall back on the inertia of "That's how things are" among the old guard of the Wizengamot, even after events as monumental as what happened with Voldemort's second rise and fall.

 

If the committee selects a nominee and then (presuming they accept) the full Wizengamot votes whether to elevate them, getting the committee nod could very well be the difficult part. E.g. it could easily be that historically almost every nominee gets accepted, so a high profile nominee getting voted down (without clear reason) could be a major scandal. e: Though of course there still needs to be tension here, or you might as well have the committee select new members directly.

 

Something to consider is that the wizarding world has at least the trappings of, if not an actual peerage system. That being the case, at least some of the seats could be linked to 'noble houses' that control critical lands/resources/areas of the wizarding economy. I don't think the whole thing would be made up of such 'noble seats' but at least a small minority of the seats should consist of such 'noble families' either by law or just through tradition and political inertia.

As those families largely got devastated in the various 20th century wars (see house Black) there could be several seats open for whoever inherits the mantle of those families. So, if Harry inherits the Black rights and responsibilities, the Wizengamot may face pressure to seat him aside from his popularity and public profile. On the flip side, that means Harry is actually obligated to fulfill whatever duties the House of Black has to the Ministry/nation, which could be unpleasant given that family's history and reputation.

 

Nah.

If anything, the separation induced by the Statute of Secrecy probably put the final nail in the coffin of magical classism.

It's insular enough just making the council a nomination-by-invite process.

 

I mean, Pureblood is classism by another name.

 

I honestly have no idea how the Wizengamot might work, but it's clear that it has nothing to do with just being a pureblood heir, seeing that Lucius Malfoy couldn't get into Harry's trial. Also, during the trial, there were "about fifty" Wizengamot members (wearing plum-colored robes with an elaborate silver W, but definitely no House Crest as certain fics like to do) and only about six of them voted against Harry, so it's apparently not full of Voldemort's pureblooded lackeys.

 

Important to note that we see the Wizengamot in a more modern times, it could very well have been quite a bit more blood purist half a century ago.

The WizardingWorld Article about the Ministers for Magic even hints at it, as it mentioned how much of the old pure-blood elite resigned from the ministry in protest after the first Muggleborn Minister was elected. Not to mention the pure-blood riots during the term after the minister after him.

 

Good point, folks are probably seriously overestimating their ideological bias, at least in the modern day.