....*Prophet

 

edit: nevermind

/10char

 

Am I the only one who found the whole 'if you use Viktor to become champion, you won't become champion'? Because honestly, what does it matter how Harry got his name into the Goblet? Once it's in, the Goblet should select him if he's better than Viktor.
I think this should be some plot of Albus to prevent Harry from entering the Tournament at all. There's no way to get past the ward, and Harry will never be champion.
Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen. I'd still pay for Harry not being able to figure a way, but Viktor entering Harry's name instead of his own.

 

Because The Santi set it up so that The Goblet would view people only in a Selection Period and wouldn't value Harry using Viktor to put his name in The Goblet highly.

 

:facepalm Read from here onwards. There are plenty of posts about the Goblet of Fire's selection process already. What's also been addressed is whether Dumbledore was actually being truthful about the process.

Please try to put some effort into actually reading the thread next time.

 

I wouldn't mind if he just decided to read the last twenty pages. It would keep him up to date and stop the need of plowing through over two hundred and fifty pages. Everybody wins.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he was simply trying to restart the rapid pace this thread once had.

 

Or alternatively: finding the time period relevant to the update (which in this case is the last three pages).

I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. In the past, we've had people restating the same thing over and over, or going completely off topic. As it stands, what Meneldur said fits into the former.

A fast paced conversation isn't a bad thing, but a conversation fuelled by meaningless posts is.

 

I did read the thread (at least, what was relevant). I'm still criticizing the idea of it. Howdy was the only one who actually wrote anything relevant to the issue. How the hell can Albus actually know what kind of sentience the Goblet has? Presumably a confundus charm can make it think there are 4 schools! The attempt of anyone to speculate on its nature is doomed to fail, since none of us (or the idiot characters) can know. Oh, we can assume, but the only thing which makes sense is that nobody knows shit, and it's all a fantastic crapshoot. And that applies to selection of champions as well.
Conclusions should be obvious.
And yes, I was trying to resurrect some meaningful discussion rather than the relatively minor things recently discussed. It appears I am more skilled in raising zombies.

 

Meneldur, format your posts...

With a free line between each paragraph.

It just makes it easier to read.

 

Considering that the Goblet's been used in past Tournaments involving Hogwarts and that Dumbledore has an office full of portraits of past Headmasters, you'd think that one of them would be able to give him an idea of how it works. Or maybe he just studied the bloody thing on his own and figured it out.

The idea that he'd use the Goblet without understanding how it works belongs in bad manipulative Dumbledore/indyHarry fics.

 

Flamel is a pretty good candidate too, he's probably older than the goblet itself. But that depends on if he's still alive, "enough elixir and time to set his affairs in order" is pretty damn vague.

As far as I know this is the first time the Goblet's been used in the TWT, Harry's probably read everything there is to read about the tournament in preparation for his entry and I doubt an incredible artifact like the Goblet would somehow escape mention in the history books. He even got a clue from Karkaroff in their private meeting that the judge wasn't human and it still didn't ring any bells, which it would have had it been used in a previous tournament.

 

As far as we know, Dumbledore might be sabotaging Harry by making him not use the easiest way in (and hoping he won't find a better one).

 

No he knows about the goblet, just not the age line so he probably figured there wouldn't be any judging other than on his past, however only the 17 year olds are going to be judged on their pasts.

Only he and Calypso will be judged on how they enter

 

Well, that was the only thing that made sense to me. He has no idea what's going on, so he's bullshitting Harry in order to make him fail.

Fact is, we know nothing about the Goblet, and the characters (not including those who organized the Tournament) know nothing of the Goblet. Which suggests it's a very obscure artifact. Albus himself makes no sense when he talks of it. For example: Viktor doesn't want to compete. Yet if he'll put in Harry's name, this makes him champion? That was exactly the problem in canon. For all that Harry's name was entered without his knowledge or agreement, he still had to compete (though the consequences of a binding magical contract were never explained). If Albus knew about the Goblet, you'd think he'd know to make sure students unwilling to compete could not be selected.

I think Albus doesn't have enough information about the Goblet, but is extrapolating from another artifact with limited sentience that he does have, the Sorting Hat. This masks his lack of knowledge, but doesn't make his assumptions right.

 

I thought he was chosen and forced to compete because there was a confoundus charm placed on the Goblet making it seem that Harry was the sole applicant meaning that he was the only possible choice and therefore he was chosen. The Goblet did not have any other choice in the matter in that respect and neither did Harry. Though I agree that the penalty and terms of the magically binding contract were not explored more, like many other things the HP universe.

 

I'm treading my own ground again, but whatever.

A Goblet that is biased against people who don't enter their own name is an excellent natural defense against people being entered against their will. This defense works with or without an age line, on people of all ages. It makes sense for it to be there. It's a simple solution to the problem, which is in line with my views of the Goblet (simple yet powerful magic). It's not an infallible method, and IMO it doesn't need to be.

Granted, it's not the only way to protect unwilling entrants. You could also say something along the lines of "The Goblet not only judges the character of the entrant, but also the intent with which they enter." That might be a more leak-tight way to do it, but I dunno. I think it's less elegant from a storytelling perspective.

 

I made an account to follow the WBA thread, and this is actually my first post.

Meneldur, I think you have read too many manipulative Dumbledore fics and/or fics which use names like Bumbledore, Dumbledumb, Dumbledick, etc.

The idea that Dumbledore would use an artifact with absolutely no knowledge about how it works isn't in any way in character in any fic written by a competent author.

"Albus himself makes no sense when he talks of it. For example: Viktor doesn't want to compete. Yet if he'll put in Harry's name, this makes him champion?"
How did you get this from what Santi wrote? Dumbledore states that the goblet will judge based on actions, and that Viktor's actions were the actions of a champion while Harry's plan of action would be that of a coward.
To go to the story:

Dumbledore quite obviously states that Viktor is truly being a champion, while Harry entering his name through a simple and less-than-honorable trick would not be true to a champion.

Santi's explanation for why Harry shouldn't simply have Viktor put his name in makes plenty of sense. If the goblet judges the character of the person entering in any way, that would easily put Viktor ahead of Harry in the selection process, should Harry decide to take the easy route.

edit: I apologize for any grammar mistakes, English is my second language. I also apologize if you came to the bumped thread expecting an update, as I originally did.