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Empathy when writing fanfiction

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Replay, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Replay

    Replay First Year

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    Do you need to have empathy to write good character development? How would you compensate for lacking empathy irl when writing characters?

    I'm working on my first one, and I just wrote myself into a conflict where I have absolutely no clue how my character would respond, and I'm also unsure about my other characterizations too. In this example, I would have the character make a judgment between lost family, surrogate family, and his (already somewhat murky) principles.

    I'm trying to put myself into his shoes, but I'm drawing blanks. I would write down various scenarios to advance this conflict, but none of them seem completely in character.

    Have you guys ever had this problem?
     
  2. b0b3rt

    b0b3rt Backtraced

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    It's difficult to write characterizations for unusual characters - you might want to write an introspective scene where he solidifies his principles. This makes your life easier, even if writing a scene like that could be difficult.
     
  3. Shouldabeenadog

    Shouldabeenadog Death Eater

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    If you write out the character's thoughts, and if you bring the internal conflict to light for the reader, then even if you stray a bit out of character, the reader will forgive you. The reason is that we can see the logic of why the character made the decision.

    Edit: So, basically what b0b3rt said.
     
  4. Perspicacity

    Perspicacity Destroyer of Worlds ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You could always define your problem away: "So and so is the type of person who would put his principles before friends and family." QED.

    This isn't very interesting, though. Better is some kind of character development: "So and so was the kind of guy who would put principles before friends and family, but then in the course of the story, <x> happened, leading to <y> and thus a challenge to the very tenets by which he defined himself. He was forced to accept <z> and in the process, he's grown into the type of person who has learned the value of family." The first is a background character, part of the scenery. The second is the kind of character about which a story can be woven.

    And yes, having some ability to empathize certainly helps. At the minimum, you have to be a functional sociopath with sufficient observational skills and imagination to be able to act the part. The bar here is low for fanfiction, obviously. *cough* Perfect Lionheart *cough*. That said, if the point of your post was to bwah about your self-diagnosed mental disorder, get over it. This is DLP; the average member has issues. Hell, they made Vash an admin, which should tell you something... :rolleyes:
     
  5. Replay

    Replay First Year

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    I'm not calling myself an emotional sociopath or any of that shit. What I meant to say is that I find it hard to identify with complex characters, which makes them a little hard to write.

    I think I've got the background story down. As part of character development, I'd like to deconstruct some previously held principles. At this specific point, he's got to make his first truly conscious, conflicting decision.

    I can't get into this character's head deep enough to fully justify any course of action, when another choice is equally valid (or invalid).

    So my question is, how do I decide what to make him decide? Flip a coin?
     
  6. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    If you can't write the character, don't, because you have to choose between writing them unconvincingly or simplifying or changing the character to bring them into line with something you can keep track of - which will certainly earn the ire of your readers. For example, my blood feud against Jbern for his mutilation of Luna in Bungle in the Jungle.

    Being a good writer means being at least a little bit schizophrenic. It's the price of entry.
     
  7. Samuel Black

    Samuel Black Chief Warlock

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    What Tehan said. If you can't write the character, don't. Simplify that character until you can.

    But for me, what always helps me is at the beginning of a story before I write, I outline my character the same way I would a story. I don't mean like an outline of his/her life. Just a basic list of what that character is, what defines him/her, what made that person that way. That normally lets me get a good enough grasp or handhold on that character to be able to jump into his/her shoes.
     
  8. Inverarity

    Inverarity Groundskeeper

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    Yes, you have to be able to empathize enough to get into another character's head to write the character as something other than a two-dimensional list of attributes. Writers with no empathy or who can only understand a very limited range of personalities tend to be bad writers whose characters all have a certain sameness to them.

    If you feel your ability to understand and write complex characters is lacking, there are basically two solutions:

    1. Get more life experience. Unfortunately, that's a function of time and there's not much you can do to speed the process up.

    2. Read a lot. (Really, this applies to everyone who wants to be a better writer.) Read books with complex characters. Read something other than fan fiction. Read outside your favorite genre. See how other authors do it.
     
  9. Admonkeystrator

    Admonkeystrator Seventh Year

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    I think this should come with a big red warning label on it.
    By all means, be influenced by other writers, but be very careful about emulating the styles of other authors.

    I've read fics that read like bad Jane Austin novels.
    I'm sure you can guess what I mean.
     
  10. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    I really don't have any empathy for the characters I write, I am extremely detached whenever I write and I don't think it's bothered me (although it may be why I haven't published anything in the past three years, I just lose interest in the characters and how much punishment I can justifiably put them through).

    You don't need empathy, you can write from a completely logical point of view as long as you have a good idea of how people act under situations, which comes with either life experience or tons of reading as Inverarity said.

    In fact getting too attached can cause problems as well; *cough Laurell K. Hamilton *cough. So be glad you've been spared that particular flaw.

    But dude if you cannot get into the head of a character at all then you're in fucking trouble, go back examine his history or flesh it out and read yourself through it and come to conclusions on how you think they would act.

    I used to despise canon Harry because I always felt his character was a bit too simple and empty or just plain inconvenient for the types of stories I wanna write. Classic sacrifice-all paragon of virtue fantasy hero. I almost always feel that I write him out of character which is why I add my own background to get his actions to fit.
     
  11. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Scribblerus, in this context empathy means getting into the head of the character.
     
  12. Inverarity

    Inverarity Groundskeeper

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    I absolutely do not recommend emulating the styles of other authors. I'm saying read a lot and familiarize yourself with the styles of many authors so you can see what works and what doesn't and why.



    What Tehan said. Empathizing with a character as an author doesn't necessarily mean liking the character. It means understanding how that character feels, what makes him or her tick.

    What Hamilton is doing is identifying with her characters -- which is almost always a recipe for turning your characters into Mary Sues.
     
  13. Amerision

    Amerision Galactic Sheep Emperor DLP Supporter

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    When I'm having issues plotting a character out, I search my memory for a similar acquaintance and try to picture them in the situation I'm putting my character in. If you don't know anyone like your character, chances are you're probably not emotional and socially developed enough to write him/her out without resorting to cliches. tl;dr, don't write what you don't know. (wtf the spacing of my paragraphs keep getting fucked up)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  14. Jormungandr

    Jormungandr Prisoner

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    I admit that I do have great, great trouble when writing original characters, but I guess that when I do, I go the middle sort of road.

    A helpful tip would be to think of the most commonly used fandom cliches, and then turn them upon their head and/or put an original spin on them.

    An example? 'Ice Queen' Daphne Greengrass?

    Sure, you could make her attractive in an aristrocratic or 'super-model' sort of way, that's perfectly plausible.

    Make her smart/cunning? Sure: whilst most people in the world are as thick as shit, some aren't. ;)

    But there's also got to be flaws with her character; most people usually make their incarnations of her unknown canon character as some sort of manipulative prodigy, which is as unrealistic as you could get. Making her overconfident/overestimating people thus leading to mistakes, or making her slightly apathetic to people's emotions and how those emotions would play into her plans/way of thinking would be great examples of how a character flaw or two could come into play.

    Harry Potter himself had numerous character flaws (eg, 'hero complex', thinking with brawn and not brains) etc. Hermione puts too much trust in authority figures and books, and Ron...well. 'Nuff said.

    Also, if you are creating an original character, especially a female, this is going to sound stupid but it's been known to happen quite often with a few authors: think with your head, not your "second head". For an authoress, the same could be said when making a male OC, or when writing their own interpretation of a canon character.

    Making a stunningly beautiful Daphne Greengrass 'Ice Princess' Mary Sue 'perfect-in-every-way' character isn't good reading for other people, nor would be miraculously changing Harry or Draco's orientation so that they 'bat for the other team' (Personal opinion, slash = :fire).
    Nor is giving Harry so many overwhelmingly numerous magical talents or abilities -such as being able to talk from every living creature from dragons to earthworms- that it makes him look/sound like a magical counterpart to Superman.

    Just think things out; I like using a pen and a notepad to plan/note things out when I'm doing something else - you'd be surprised how often this sort of idle thinking can help you when brainstorming.
     
  15. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    God damn it, no. Cliches don't have to define your characterization, and as a rule shouldn't, whether you're going out of your way to match them or avoid them. This sort of preppies vs hipster bullshit ruins stories. It *can* be fun to make a new twist on a fanon interpretation, but writing a character that riffs on a cliche purely for the sake of it is something to do in a oneshot, not as part of a multi-chapter story.

    Stop thinking of storywriting as a jigsaw puzzle or a formula to solve for X and start thinking of it as the art it bloody well is.
     
  16. Grinning Lizard

    Grinning Lizard Supreme Mugwump

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    I'd prefer to think of storywriting as a craft, simply because a craft implies skill as a requisite to success. Art doesn't, necessarily. A valid point all the same, which I'll elaborate on below.

    You can't compensate for it, I'm afraid.

    If you're writing a character that you know nothing about, can't get into the mindset of and struggle to develop, it will come across as 'the author doesn't give a shit about character x.' Which will in turn translate into the reader not giving a shit about character x.

    The problem with fanfiction is that you're pulling other authors' characters from other authors' worlds and you can only take them as far as your own interpretation allows. If you are emotionally restricted about Hermione, for example, your Hermione character will be emotionally restricted and thus OoC. When the average fanfic author is presented with the need for a character with development and a specific attitude and structure within an original plot, they'll usually do any combination of three things; 1) Give x a sword, 2) Create an OC to take x's place, 3) Give x a shitload of money, cos y'know, money changes people.

    I include myself in that generalisation, as I've been guilty of all three. It takes mad skills to start with someone else's fully formed characters and put them believably in a situation that the original author never envisioned (especially if you're writing seriously and not just for the lulz). That said, what is true for that original author is also true for fanfic writers; the characters are only as they are because of the environment around them. Construct a story for these characters to experience and influence, not just a sequence of events, and if after or during this you still can't empathise with a chararacter that is, by rights, yours... well, fuck it, give x a sword. With the sort of people who make up 99% of fanfic readers, it'll up readership by half anyway.
     
  17. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    No, you don't need to have empathy to write good character development.

    All you need is a good plan, better imagination and a healthy dose of talent. A character is a construct. It has traits A and B and C, does X, Y and Z, and reacts in ways 1), 2), and 3). Typically, your problem

    is the one I usually face (at this very moment, actually), when I did insufficient defining of my character beforehand. So I take a step back, think about how I want my character to behave, and what a certain behaviour would say about the character in general and within the context of my story, and when I've decided on a course of action, I write it and move on to the next scene.

    Simple enough, except the first thing (thinking about I want my character to act) can take anything from five minutes to a week.


    In your case, stop looking at it as if it was a problem, and stop trying to get into your character's "head". It isn't one, and it doesn't have one. You write the story. Do you want the character to put principles before family? Or don't you? How does it fit into the story? What will mean either course for the plot that comes after the scene? Which fits better?

    Ask yourself that, plan the story, and go from there. Once you do it that way, you will find that you eventually do your "problem" the other way round -- you start actively constructing scenes and circumstances, to highlight a certain trait of your character in the reaction it shows.


    TL;DR: I disagree.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  18. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    You need to understand a character to write about it. If you don't, your attempt at writing will probably be in total vain.

    But it's not that difficult to understand a character, follow these basic principles:

    1. Humans (or human-like characters, which is what I mean here) are contradictory. They may believe or want one thing, but they often act in the opposite manner. Consquently, suffering often comes about because of this.

    An example would be... I don't know, are you familiar with Spike? From Cowboy Bebop. Ideally, he would be reunited with his lover, but instead he wallows and wants revenge. If you were trying to create a Spike-like-character from scratch, you might be tempted to say, "But wait... that motiviation is illogical, why should my character want revenge? That won't get him what he wants..."

    To understand a character, you merely need to understand that logic does not apply. Emotion and intuition are large players and logic is always twisted in the mind of a person.

    Humans are not robots that will act in ways you will understand as logical.

    2. However, characters NEED to have some kind of logic to them. You can't just explain it all away and expect the reader to accept that. There needs to be a consistent (perhaps not readily apparent) logic to a person's thinking.

    This is probably where you're having trouble. You can't understand your character's logic. Without more detail as to what character you don't know how to write, I can't get into specifics here, but... don't try to force your own understanding. Re-read or imagine scenes that your character is in. Try to ask yourself what that character would do...

    Let's pick a more familiar character. Darth Vader. Who is Darth Vader? What would Darth Vader do in a room with his son, as just meeting him for the first time? What would he feel? What would he want to do (as opposed to what would he do)? Why would he want to do that? What started him on that path? Create a flow chart if you're having trouble keeping track of all this.

    Darth Vader, as my limited understanding of Star Wars goes, is vicious, passionate, controlling, physically strong and physically weak (a duality of sorts, remember he can't be separated from his suit), impulsive, experienced, and relentless. As well as many other things. Darth Vader would probably try to bring his son to understand him, he would want him to join him so he could connect with him. He might attempt to kill his son or attack him, depending on his son's response. He probably wants to have a relationship with his son. He was separated from his mother at a young age, was surrounded by creepy old emotionless jedi and never had a childhood or anyone close to connect with (besides his lover I guess, DV's backstory is all ruined by the prequels). He would feel excitement and jubiliation at meeting his son, perhaps followed by regret, longing or irrational anger.

    3. The final thing I would add is this: people are empty boxes. This is my own personal understanding, but people are nothing. We start as nothing and develop identities, but those identities can be changed at whim. Sure, habit and circumstance prevent identity from changing too often, and most people seem to think they know who they are, but in reality, a person can be anything (within the constraints of their biology and what circumstance/time will allow, but even then, fantasy can allow one to escape these constraints). Any one person is limitless and undefinable. Use this to your advantage, though do not abuse it - if you twist a character too much, it becomes inhuman.

    If you still don't understand what you're trying to write, create a situation that forces your character to be more understandable. This is a bit of a cop out, but it's always better to write what you know, than what you don't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  19. Jormungandr

    Jormungandr Prisoner

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    I agree in that it shouldn't soley define your character's behavior or actions, but depending on the story's premise and the situations involved within it, it could be a part of it/be of a big influence. If this was the case, wouldn't you -the author- at least try and do something unique with it?
     
  20. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Unique != good.
     
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