I recently read a story with a very interesting premise, called After the Second Rise, by author redfeathersky. I'm gonna post a partial summary and then move into the reason for this thread.

..Without a Portkey, Harry is forced to fight his way out of the Cemetary at the end of the Fourth Book. He is tourchured, hunted, and learns how to kill to survive..

This story wasn't up to the level we look for here at DLP (not technically sound at all), but it got me thinking.

What would realistically happen if the Triwizard Cup was destroyed, or inaccessible to Harry as he tried to escape the graveyard in Little Hangleton? So I've been trying to plot it out a little, and I'm curious about what you guys see as the biggest implications for change in the rest of the series.

If Harry can't escape with the cup (which we all know Crouch Jr. made into a portkey), he's going to have to fight his way past Voldemort, Wormtail, Lucious Malfoy, Macnair, Avery, and the elder Crabbe, Goyle, and Nott, with only the magical repertoire of a Hogwarts 4th Year. There's plenty of scattered cover, I would guess, in the form of tombstones, crypts, and statues, so it could be interesting.

How would you let his escape (and all the shit that happens before Harry escapes) affect possibly bringing the Horcrux plot to light more than a year earlier? Harry gaining knowledge of the prophecy a year before he did in canon? I'm seeing a myriad of possibilities here, and I've already made a few decisions on how to handle some of them if I write this, but I'd like to see what the DLP population thinks, too.

So there we go. Talk shit about it, give your thoughts on where you'd go with it, etc etc.

 

He would die.

E:
That was too laconic. The only advantage Harry has is connection between his and Riddle's wand. He has no prophecy sphere they need, no corridors to hide in, no other targets to split enemy's attenion. After all, Wormtail was able to disarm tie him, how can he possibly survive this? No amount of luck can help him in such case.
That is, if we talk about canon Harry.

 

I think something would have to change in order for the Harry from the books to live. If we look at it he got lucky, the wands + the portkey saved his ass. I suppose it could be a time when something in him emerges like the power he knows not however. Could be interesting if well done, could suck miserably if not well done.

 

@ KrzaQ:

We already know that Harry does (sort of) die in Deathly Hallows. Consider what allowed him to return to life in that story. Voldemort has taken Harry's blood, ensuring his mother's protection remains. We also know that Voldemort's AK destroyed the piece of his own soul in Harry's scar. Make your own deductions. I don't expect Harry to become a badass overnight and be able to hold his own against the Dark Lord and his servants. Consider a doomed but valiant attempt at escape and where you could go with it.

@ elvin:

IF I were to write this, I would start as Harry makes his break to Cedric and summons the cup. I personally think that's the only logical point to begin if you were change things from then on in the series. Something would have to change, yes. But I basically already made the point for a huge change in reply to KrzaQ. What do you think?

 

We also know that he was intending to sacrifice himself in DH and that was what saved him (funny, eh?). Back in the graveyard, it was survival what was on top of his mind.

There are some very unlikely ways for Harry to survive, but they require standard amount of luck, so they could work.
1) Accidental magic. He certainly was in great distress, it was only ~20 months after last known to readers display of accidental magic. And we know he apparated accidentally at least once before.
2) Fawkes could appear, grab him and leave.
3) He could yell "portus" pointing on his clothes and have the spell work somehow.
4) He could accidentally Voldemort.

 

The only likely outcome I can see is Harry's death.

 

Why not have Harry duel against Pettigrew and Homunculus!Voldemort. It isn't inconceivable that Harry might actually do something intelligent after seeing Cedric die, instead of just allowing Pettigrew to disarm him. He manages to escape, but not without getting a few wounds. Voldemorts gets the blood he needs for the ritual, and once he gets his new body, he summons his servants and sends them after Harry. A deadly chase ensues.

 

Harry not having the portkey to escape was something I did in my story, (Path of Decision) and it was mostly because I was sick of reading the same exit point over and over. It's either Harry using the portkey, he already knew how to Apparate, or there were super wizard that help fight Voldemort off.

I had the idea for years, even before I had a story to put it in, and it never showed up. It did serve as a good turning point for tearing apart most of canon while keeping much of the central plots the same. If you have Harry fight off Voldemort, Death Eaters, and keep his wits about him, he's going to learn a lesson and not screw around any more. That means no stupid heroics anymore like at the Ministry.

Say Harry was with hit with the killing curse, and everyone had already apparated away before he woke up properly. Dumbledore wasn't dead, so he can't meet him for the weird train station scene. But if it was Regulus Black, Harry could learn all about Horcruxes in book four.

 

I basically had the idea for a running fight with the Death Eaters throughout the cemetary which, after much damage to the cemetary, injuries to Harry, the possible death of one or two of Voldemort's servants, and a Voldemort killing curse, would leave Harry not-really-dead and alone in the graveyard.

I like the idea of Harry's blood in Voldmort being very similar to a horcrux, thus negating the need for sacrifice. This is totally not my idea -- I read it in Dark Lord Rising by AndrewsQuill, and have no idea if he got it from someone else, or if it was a JKR interview nugget.

I don't really plan on having an out of body experience with anyone like JKR did with Dumbledore in DH. For some reason that always bothered me.

I'd say getting hit by Voldemort's killing curse, surviving, and losing the ability to feel Voldemort's nearness/emotions and speak to snakes would be a damn good reason for Harry to seek answers. And since Harry could no longer just be Dumbledore's sacrificial lamb, I think the man would be much more forthcoming with information (prophecy/horcruxes). Not to mention willing to train Harry.

I just think it's a wellspring of opportunities to make Harry a stronger character.

 

True, making Harry live (mostly by accident) would instantly make Harry a stronger character.
Perhaps Harry goes to the old Riddle house and blows up the place full of Death Eaters with a gas explosion, and he slips away. They don't really know about Muggle things, and their so busy toying with Harry that they don't realize he's about retaliate.

Now, how would he leave the graveyard? Perhaps he is discovered by the Ministry and faced with the proof of so much Dark Activity, the Ministry announces Voldemort's return.
Alternately, he's picked up alone by an Order member after Harry trudges his way to the town nearby and makes a phone call so they can pick him up. (Who... I didn't think that far because it's not terribly important.)

 

Logically, Harry would die.

That said, if you made something else out of it, I'd read it. It'd be interesting and,, frankly, since when has logic made a difference in fanfiction?

 

Harry being discovered by either the Order or the Ministry wouldn't be too much of a stretch, really--I doubt Voldemort would kill Harry (or at least think he had) and then leave without setting out the Dark Mark at the very least. He'd probably put what he thinks is Harry's corpse somewhere very visible to show off.

Then you've got the Prophet starting with the Chosen One stories much earlier, rather than discrediting Harry totally. Yes, there would still be obstacles and other issues to work through, but I think if the Horcrux plotline had been started earlier in the series (read: not horribly rushed), it wouldn't have been so disliked.

And like Shezza said, it may not be logical all the way, but it got me really interested. I don't know if I'll write it (right now I'm just really plotting it out in my head), but I want to go with as close to realistic (in the HP-verse) as I can get it.

 

Actually this can be a good thing. Dumbledore probably knew Harry's scar was a horcrux for quite some time. If it were destroyed by Voldemort, I could easily see how Dumbledore might deal with Harry differently without the scar connection and Voldemort's soul piece having an affect on Harry.

In this scenario, Harry might get the training he would need to defeat tall, dark and reptilian. It would be interesting if along with the soul fragment destruction; Voldemort's rebirth were discovered. The Ministry (or Dumbledore) might even provide the means for Harry to be properly trained.

 

I like Random Shinobi's take. Since Harry managing to defeat the assembled Death Eaters would be unbelievable, you could instead merely have him duel Pettigrew. After all, Harry has a (frequently remarked upon) very strong will - why not use that to have him push aside the pain in his scar after Pettigrew kills Cedric, but before he grabs Harry? I don't at all think Harry could defeat Pettigrew, but it wouldn't be so unbelievable that he was able to fight defensively long enough to get away. And mutated!Voldemort probably is not up to fighting at all.

 

I'm actually writing a story with this as the starting premise. When I'm finished with the beast that is the first chapter (17,918 words right now, a lot more still to go), I'll post it up in WbA and see what you guys think.

 

I think Harry would defeat Pettigrew, Nefar. First, Peter's not sharp at all and a poor wizard. Canon-Harry is not a poor wizard, no matter what DLPers may think - sometimes I think you have been influenced by the cliches of fandom and give Death Eaters too much credit and Harry not enough. If it were Bella or Snape that Harry had to duel then yes, Harry would be toast, but not against Peter. And more importantly, there's the debt owed by Peter - he would find his own hand choking him if he were, by chance, about to defeat Harry or cause him grevious injury.

 

Pettingrew had his both hands at the moment so no, his hand wouldn't choke him.
And in my opinion, canon Harry is less than average wizard. He might be powerful, but he is plainly stupid. I mean, he is in trouble almost all the time, someone more intelligent would take a hint and prepare himself better rather than count on luck. Canon Harry did so only in case of Dementors.
Still, I think Harry has have chances of defeating Pettingrew.

 

I honestly can't see Harry surviving the graveyard without some major distractions and luck on his site, if the Portkey somehow malfunctioned. There are around thirty Death Eaters present, and Harry himself knew perfectly well that he was toast. He thought about escape early on in the duel, but he knew that it would be futile.He might try and use the environment out of desperation, but most of his enemies are Superior duelists, and they have a huge advantage in their numbers. The only plausible distraction I can think of at the moment is treachery. But why would a potential traitor decide to act at that exact moment?

The idea of Harry's scar getting destroyed early is interesting enough, however.

 

I don't understand your reasoning. Harry did not prepare himself better so he is less than average? What exactly do you mean by "prepare himself better"? Studying more magic? Learning a bunch of spells and dueling techniques? It would do jack-shit for him against Voldemort. Anything, and I mean anything, that he could learn and throw at Voldemort would be easily countered. He knew it, Dumbledore and Riddle knew it, heck even Snape knew it. He would not have defeated Voldemort in a duel as a seventeen year old - not even Dumbldore could have. That could only happen in a fandom cliche-fest.

Which is why Dumbledore prepared him the way he did. Do you mean to say that studying Voldemort's past and learning about the horcruxes was not preparation? Dumbledore gave Harry just the right tools, used Voldemort's own ignorance in matters of deep magic against him and managed to guide Harry to victory.

And none of the above means that canon-Harry is a less than average wizard. Don't forget, he scored an Outstanding in DADA at the O.W.L when even Hermione only managed and Exceeds Expectations. And my suspicion is that he was the only one to get an O in the DADA OWL exam that year.

Edit: Agree with you, Memory King. He could certainly not survive fighting against thirty to one odds, not even a well-trained Auror could. It would be ridiculous if he did.