I was just reading a story called "Anonymity", where Harry has to write to Ginny Weasley about questions such as what other magical schools are there, how to mail-order stuff, how to travel somewhere, what documents are required from MOM, etc... And I was just thinking, how pathetic is it for someone to rely on a year younger girl for basic stuff like that? Can Harry really be so ignorant to the world around him?

Think about it. He spends 9 months per year communicating with other wizards whole day long and yet in many fics he's portrayed as a complete ignoramus, who knows a few charms described in the canon and nothing else.

Some other unbelievable subplots include:

- Harry is a heir to some ultra famous family or he's one of the richest guys in the world, yet he has no clue about this.

- Harry has no clue about some rules of decorum that are standard for all wizards (for example, how to act at a dining table, even though he eats 3 meals per day surrounded by other wizards).

- He has no clue about any spell, magical item, historic wizarding figure, folklore or famous person not already discussed in the canon and has to rely on HERMIONE to explain it to him (even though she's a muggleborn herself).

Even canon suffers from blunders like this:

- In second year, Harry had no clue what the word "mudblood" means, even though it's unlikely that Malfoy hadn't used it even once during the first year. Also, he had never heard about Floo powder, even though it's one of the main wizarding methods of transportation.

- In third year, Harry didn't know what Azkaban is, even though it's the only wizarding prison in Britain. He also never heard about apparition in two years of his life with wizards.

- In fourth year, Harry had no clue about portkeys. He also didn't know you can use floo only to talk (even though that must be like telephones for wizards).

I understand that she had to introduce these gradually, but it's still unbelievable that Harry haven't heard a word about these concepts before they were officially introduced into the canon.

I'd really like to see a fic where Harry is knowledgeable about something BEFORE he starts his magical training - not knowing about advanced magic and obscure laws is ok. Not knowing ANYTHING other than stuff already mentioned in JKR's books is simply unrealistic and it's really starting to get on my nerves.

 

Don't you think this belongs here?

But yeah, JK screwed herself into a corner with Harry being such an ignoramus. Totally unbelievable with all the time he spends among other Wizards/Witches.

 

Good point. I mean, if you were a muggleborn, and you were going into a new world, then wouldn't you want to learn anything and everything about it that you could? I'm pretty sure that I would be the male version of Hermione, but in some other house. Personally, I think that Hermione should have been in Ravenclaw. She has a thirst for knowledge, likes to follow the rules, and likes studying and homework. The fact that she follows the rules like a devote cow simply says that she shouldn't be in the bravest house of Hogwarts. But, I digress, BOT, I also want to see a fic where Harry has knowledge of the basics of wizarding culture and customs like duels, floo powder, etc.

 

No, this is about canon as well as fanfiction.

JKR had set this image of Harry the confused little boy with Philosopher’s Stone and everyone have been following it ever since, conveniently forgetting that he must have grown up at least a little over the years and learned a thing or two in the process.

 

I always thought Harry should be ashamed of himself. The way he scrapes along in Hogwarts is pathetic. He went to Hogwarts to learn but he hasn't learned jack.

Hermione probably read more in 2 school years than Harry's entire stay there.


Is it really that hard for Harry to pick up a book and just read ?

 

I'll be honest. I'm not sure this is as much of a problem as you're all making it out to be.

First of all, its pretty obvious to me from IP82's description that this is a device being used by the author of the fic IP82 mentioned to move Ginny and Harry together.

Second allow me to use computers (or cars) as an example here. All of us have been in or around a car at least once right? Its impossible for us to NOT be affected by computers in this day and age, correct? So why is it that someone (not neccessarily the memebers of this forum) can be surrounded by computers, even use them daily and yet not know how to add RAM to their box? Or understand the basic principles of swap space? Or know how to check the oil to their car? Or understand how to replace (which one?) their car's spark plugs?

I'm thinking its the same way in the Harry Potter world. Just because you're surrounded by something and use it doesn't make you a technician.

--bornagainpenguin

 

Does Harry know HOW to read?

--bornagainpenguin (who asks this only half tongue in cheek)

 

Well, he read his hogwarts letter didn't he?

 

If i was harry i would off picked up that damn book along time ago...i mean come on...the best analogy i can come up with if you ask harry something wizarding world is like asking a baby what the meaning of life is while it's sucking it's toes. On a side note..did he start getting the news papper on the summer before his fifth year right?

 

Wouldn’t surprise me if that wasn’t just accidental magic.

 

Well, he did go to Muggle school, remeber? There is always one teacher that takes pity on the one kid that can't read and teaches them.

 

Not only that fic - that's the most comonly used plot device for introducing new stuff, by both JKR AND fanfic writters.

How many times have you seen Harry comming across some mysterious object and then describing it in his mind ("...it was a large, transparent bowl, filled with pensive like substace..."). And then Hermione and Ron having to describe it to him what that is ("...that's a pornocortex, Harry. It's like a pensive, only used to... ahm..." explained blusing Hermione...).

That is a convenient method used by all writters to introduce new concepts while developing character interatctions, but in the long run, it only makes the main character seem like a complete ignorant idiot.

The problem is not in Harry not knowing HOW the things work. The problem is him not knowing WHAT they are or that they even EXIST.

It's like an alien who after an year of living amongst humans learns that there are such things as cars and computers. Ridiculous.

 

You got me there.

Building on what you said what I'd really like to know is WTF was Harry doing all those summers after he had finished 'his' chores? Its fairly obvious that he spent most of his time in his room--what was he doing in there all those hours; whacking off? If it were me I'd have ordered a copy of Hogwarts a History and started reading it out of sheer boredom...

--bornagainpenguin

 

Being moderatly rich & part of a solid pureblood family but not knowing about it is OK (besides, Harry already knows he's half-blood and well-off).

But when they make the Potter line descendants of Gryffindor and have Harry not knowing about it is just too much.

A large fortune that everybody but Harry know about is unrealistic too - if everyone know you are rich, there's bound to be somebody asking for a loan or some lawyer/financial adviser offering his services. Dumbledore couldn't possibly stop other people from owling Harry or approaching him using other children.

Another stupid thing - when Harry doesn't know what his parents did for living. Just because it wasn't mentioned in the canon, it doesn't mean that poor orphan boy didn't spend 5 minutes of his time finding out (since knowing his parents is his biggest desire).

Eating was just an example. I was talking about stories where Harry doesn't know anything about wizarding holydays, clustoms, etc...

Heh... Even those who don't like History must score a passing mark. You DO know who Julius Cesar, Alexandar the Great and Abraham Linkoln were, right? Why would then Harry need an explanation about every god damn wizarding figure ever mentioned in any fic?

Yes, but Harry seemingly had no clue about the whole Muggleborns vs Purebloods conflict prior to his second year. And that is one of the most defining elements of wizarding society in HP world. Not to mention the ideology behind Voldemort and his Death Eaters...

Ups, Harry had no clue what a "Death Eater" or "Dark Mark" are, prior to his fourth year, right? You'd think that would have come up sometimes in three years.

Imagine Voldemort ranting some more at the end of PS:

Voldemort: "And then, my fateful Death Eaters will spread the Dark Mark all over the British islands again, making all the mudblood scum shiver in fear!"

Harry: "Err... what? who? Wrong book there, mate. Give me a few more years and then say that again."

Let me think about that, yes.

When I was 13-14, I know very well what cars, planes and telephones were.

I also knew names of at least some institutions in the country (most famous factories, cities and yes, even prisons).

As to whether it would surface in conversation, I bet that, in the course of 9 months, at least someone would say something like "Yes, I flooed to his place"... or "My dad apparated me there"...

 

Too true! Thinking about it rationally this is a huge plot hole to the entire series.

ROTFLMAO! This belongs in a parody...maybe nonjon could 'steal' it naming you as originator in an Author's Notes?

--bornagainpenguin

 

*shrug*

It's not that she had to introduce it gradually, it's that she came up with it later, then couldn't be assed to make a decent way of introducing stuff, so she makes her main character seem like a retarded naive twat.

I mean come on, one of the main reasons we like dark stories, is that it takes a halfway established world, and builds on it. To be honest, if she did even a halfway decent job with characterization and backstory I wouldn't be here. It's the gaping plot holes and all the missing stuff for us to fill in that makes us like the world as a fic medium.

As for fanon doing the ignorant Harry bit, yeah it's stupid, but hell you can't blame them for continuing in the same vein as JKR has, by keeping Harry clueless until they need plot advancement, the kid's an idiot.

 

edited because the post before mine said the exact same thing.

sigh.

 

Yeah, that's the only reason I read/write HP fanfiction. All the plotholes make it fanfiction heaven. That was actually one of the reasons I disliked HBP, it tied up a few loose ends that I liked being loose ends, and adding a whole bunch more that I despised.

If something is done well and everything fits, there is little room for growth! That, and if I really like something I don't bother to try to write something to it (always seems blasphemous to me). Usually I read/write fanfiction because I didn't like the way the anime/book wasted it's potential.

 

post

i think harry should rebell. come on people eather hees very dence to not see what dumblefuck is doing or hees biding his time.
now dumblefuck is not realy dead i think .