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Mythology help...

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Jormungandr, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Jormungandr

    Jormungandr Prisoner

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    I'm looking up Celtic mythology for a plot bunny resource, and I was wondering if anyone knew of any good resources on the internet (aside from wikipedia, which I've been working off of thus far) that'll go into detail about the Celtic/Gaelic/native British mythos (such as Irish/Welsh/Scottish/Arthurian mythology).

    Edit: also, information on the Norse mythos would be a bonus, too: it'll link in with the vague idea of a sequel I have for this plot bunny.

    Can anyone please help me?
     
  2. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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  3. Jormungandr

    Jormungandr Prisoner

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    Thanks! These'll be of great help.
     
  4. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Luminarium gets a massive recommendation from me.
     
  5. LuckyFelix

    LuckyFelix Seventh Year

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    Google and your local library are your friends.

    pantheon.org, mentioned above, is also a decent resource that I've used before, though it's not easy to find something unless you know what you're looking for.
     
  6. Jormungandr

    Jormungandr Prisoner

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    I thought I'd bump this topic instead of creating a new one for this question, but there's a bit of confusion for me over Harry Potter's pure-blooded grandmother/father's identities (that of James Potter's parents).

    Were they Dorea Potter nee Black and Charlus Potter?

    The confusion comes from this (salvaged from the Harry Potter wiki):


    • There is some speculation that Dorea Potter was Mrs. Potter, the mother of James Potter I (and, by extension, the paternal grandmother of Harry Potter), given that J. K. Rowling has said that James's parents were older when they had him[3], and Dorea would have been forty years old when he was born[2]. However, Rowling also said that James's parents died of natural causes when they were elderly, presumably around the same time[4]. Dorea died at the age of fifty-seven[2], which is not elderly in wizarding terms. This may be a mathematical error, as Rowling has also admitted that maths is not her strong suit[5] and inconsistencies have been noted in the timeline.
    • Also, if Dorea was James's mother, James would be the first cousin of Cygnus Black III (whose about a generation older than James), and second cousin of Cygnus' daughters (Andromeda, Bellatrix, and Narcissa) who attended Hogwarts around the same time as James.
    • If Dorea was an aunt (via marriage) or a distant cousin-in-law to James, then this leaves us with the mystery of what happened to the son of Charlus and Dorea. Since Harry was not supposed to have any living family other than the Dursley family, we could assume that Charlus, Dorea, and their son must have died before 1981.
    • However, it is also unlikely that Dorea is James Potter's mother as James' parents took Sirius Black into thier home after he ran away from his family. As Siruis' uncle Alphard was disowned for simply giving Sirius "a decent amount of gold" when he ran away, it is likely, that Dorea would also have been disowned for allowing Sirus to live with them.
    • The Charlus Potter and Dorea Black who appeared on the Black family tree have been speculated to be James' parents. The couple had one child, a son whose name has not been revealed. If Dorea was in fact James's mother, she would have been forty when he was born[7], which seems to align with J. K. Rowling's revelation about the age of James' parents. However, Dorea died at fifty-seven, which conflicts with Rowling's statement that James' mother was "old in wizarding terms" when she died. (J.K. Rowling, however, has said that maths is not her strong point and this could just be a mistake)[4]. Also, when James was young, he stated that his father was in Gryffindor and he didn't mention his mother, which might be another hint, as almost all Blacks have been Slytherins. This would also explain why the Sorting Hat initially suggested Slytherin for Harry. It runs in his veins.
    • There is some speculation that Charlus Potter was Mr. Potter, the father of James Potter I (and, by extension, the paternal grandfather of Harry Potter), given that J. K. Rowling has said that James's parents were older when they had him[2], and Dorea Potter would have been forty years old when he was born[1]. However, Rowling also said that James's parents died of natural causes when they were elderly, presumably around the same time[3]. Dorea died at the age of fifty-seven[1], which is not elderly in wizarding terms. This may be a mathematical error, as Rowling has also admitted that math is not her strong suit[4] and inconsistencies have been noted in the timeline.
    • Charlus may simply have been more an uncle or a distant cousin to James Potter.
    • If the above theory is correct, then this leaves us with the mystery of what happened to the son of Charlus and Dorea. Since Harry was not supposed to have any living family other than the Dursley family, we could assume that Charlus, Dorea, and their son must have died before 1981.
    • It is also possible that Charlus Potter was a member of Gryffindor house, like the rest of Potter family.
    • It is widely speculated that Charlus Potter and Dorea Black, who appeared on the Black family tree, were James' parents. The couple had one son[9], whose name was not listed on the tree, but whether he was James has not been confirmed. There is some other supporting evidence, such as Dorea's relatively older age when James was born, but there is also some possibly conflicting evidence, such as Dorea dying at the age of 57, rather than being old in wizarding terms.

    From what I can understand, the above seems to indicate that they were, but there's a few details there that are poking me in the noggin', mainly the whole 'Black kicking family off of the tree' thing and the 'no other living relatives' thing, as mentioned above. Is there any other known canon information that I'm missing that'll help confirm their identities, or will do the opposite?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  7. Tenages

    Tenages Order Member DLP Supporter

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    No as far as I'm aware, there's no canon information as to the identities of Harry's grandparents on either the paternal or the maternal side. In fact, as far as I recall, the only information ever given about Harry's paternal grandparents is that his father was in Gryffindor.

    As for the non-canon sources of information, as you've found, it's a clusterfuck. People generally use Charlus and Dorea just because IIRC Charlus is the only other Potter male named in the supplementary material. It saves them making up their own names, etc.
     
  8. Jormungandr

    Jormungandr Prisoner

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    Well, the only other bit of known canon information is that Harry's relatives on his mother's side have his green eyes, and that an older man who didn't have those eyes had knobbly knees, like his own. (Mirror of Erised).

    Thanks for clearing that up for me: since there's no evidence to the contrary and there's some sort of vague evidence suggesting that they were, I'll use Dorea and Charlus.
     
  9. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    I might vaguely remember Rowling denying that they were Harry's grandparents. However, I could be completely wrong. Personally, I think they weren't Harry's grandparents, if only for the fact that if there were, you'd think Sirius and/or Harry would've mentioned them when they studied the tapestry in OotP. Seems much more important than whether or not the Malfoys are Sirius' relatives.

    But yeah, that's one of these cases where you do what fits your story. I turned the order of the Black Sisters around, because I needed it. So what?


    As a side note the HP Lexicon >> the HP wiki, always. The wiki isn't reliable. They mix Fanon with Canon, i.e. presenting speculation as facts and interpreting rather than collecting information, as I pointed out a year ago. It's of no use if you read "X is Y" and then have to wonder if that's true and where they got that from, because there's no source given; and then waste time browsing the books yourself (and come up empty, often enough).
     
  10. Nooblet

    Nooblet Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    You'd think Sirius/Harry would mention it anyways, because it's his first sight of the name Potter besides his parents. Purebloods are interrelated, so at least some of the people Harry met should be a distant relation.

    It seems to me that maybe Rowling planned to have them be his grandparents, but then scrapped that idea later. Who the fuck knows.
     
  11. silverlasso

    silverlasso Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I like how your post was completely ignored. :facepalm I suppose one of us could edit it, but it's easier to ignore it completely and just go to the Lexicon.
     
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